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  1. #16

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athlonacon
    There's some kind of switch track being built near the dock right now, there's still a chance it could have dual loading docks. That would definitely help more than more subs because the loading/unloading cycles are what takes the most time. Thankfully you exit at the opposite end you enter...can you guys imagine what it would be like if you had to wait to have everyone exit before you even began going in?
    The switches have always been there. And new docks were already in place in the old narrow glory. It'd be pointless to rebuild the old docks only to rip them out.

  2. #17

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman
    ...That stuff does not come cheap anymore.
    If it ever was "cheap" Bruce.

  3. #18

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    It looks like they had previously the ability to load two docks at a time, from the photos:




  4. #19

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    The front hatch loaded the port side(left), and the rear hatch loaded the starboard side(right). There were 18 seats on each side (39 seats total).

    The WDW subs were longer than DL's subs, and they would not have been able to make the turn into the caverns and probably not been able to make the horseshoe turn at the back of the caverns either without taking out some scenery.

    Even though Disneyland has 8 submarines, typically 6 or 7 were used for the peak times in the years just before the ride closed. With 6 subs in use, there was some dead time in the dock waiting for the next sub to arrive to unload, but when the seventh boat was added, it meant that one or two subs were always waiting to get into the dock. This would cause backups into the caverns and increase the potential of two subs colliding.
    Former Submarine Voyage CM 1994-1995


  5. #20

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogberto
    It looks like they had previously the ability to load two docks at a time,
    There were (are) three docks.
    Former Submarine Voyage CM 1994-1995


  6. #21

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    The new system automates the docking procedure to an extent, (I was told that the docks will still need to be manually chosen, as well as manual doors and bridges) as well as creates a sort of blocking system so subs can't collide with one another. So it will now be possible to run 7 subs... now if they will, well, we shall see.

  7. #22

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    The new system automates the docking procedure to an extent, (I was told that the docks will still need to be manually chosen, as well as manual doors and bridges) as well as creates a sort of blocking system so subs can't collide with one another. So it will now be possible to run 7 subs... now if they will, well, we shall see.
    Ok, to clear up any confusion.

    1. They never used the spur lines for loading of guests. It was storage only.

    2. They always ran all 8 boats when it was busy.

    3. There were three loading areas. Front dock, intermediate dock and rear dock. On slow days the rear dock would go unused (don't expect that to happen with the new attraction any time soon).

    4. The bridge they built over the dock was never for guests. Before the bridge, cast members would cross to the spur docks by walking on top of the subs.

    5. When 8 boats are running with three docks in operation, your boat will never unload you at the same dock you loaded at (unless the lead in charge of the attraction goes for the 3+3+2 wolf pack operation).

  8. #23

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    As I commented with the monorail thread, there are some very knowledgeable people here!

  9. #24

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    Quote Originally Posted by InnerSpace67
    that's why I said reskin them!
    Well being that they were concrete subs made as the Nautilus it would be a bit harder than just "reskinning" them.

  10. #25

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman
    The ONLY reason I can see justifying the construction of a brand new sub for the ride now would be to build one with a much better handicapped lift system, and viewing ports that are bigger to accomodate a person in a chair easier. But that would cost a LARGE amount of money, and if the Guest has a medical crisis halfway through the ride...
    And now it might not be an issue as much now with the new emmissions system they put onto the subs, but another part of the sub-story was that they didn't meet new California Emissions Standards 45 years later and only so much could be changed and still allow the subs to be grandfathered in under the old codes. I think one new sub would have required the attraction as a whole to meet the new standards...including the old subs.

    So money and codes...but again I don't know how the new drive system effects the emmissions (and if that is now the same issue in 2006 it was in 2003).

  11. #26

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    Quote Originally Posted by tloolgb
    Well being that they were concrete subs made as the Nautilus it would be a bit harder than just "reskinning" them.
    The subs are made out of concrete?!?

  12. #27

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogberto
    If it ever was "cheap" Bruce.
    Well, when Disneyland was originally being built, it was possible to do stuff for cheap, and still get good results. They were using the all-at-once "Design/Build" concept long before the term was formally coined - go read all the Bob Gurr columns on the early years of Imagineering over at LaughingPlace.com.

    Bob Gurr would sketch out a design, go to the machine shop and they would cobble up a prototype, and test it for fit and function. When they had one that worked, the shop people would quickly figure out how to crank them out in volume, and use the prototype as a pattern. Bob would make a bit more detailed sketch for the drafters and/or take them a finished piece so they could make the formal blueprints after the fact, and start the paperwork to pay for the materials and the shopwork after the fact.

    If they needed parts from an outside vendor, the vendors were more than happy to let several-thousand-dollar orders walk out the door on a handshake, because they'd get a check in a few days as soon as Bob got the invoice to Accounting, and they could write a check and mail it out.

    The Sub hulls were cranked out by the Todd Shipyards in San Pedro IIRC, and they were done fast once they started. The basic hull is just a big cigar of rolled steel plate, and they custom roll curved plates every day.

    Many of the other fittings and pieces were stock items that they found a new use for - I'd have to look again, but I think the fold-up seat base mechanisms in the Subs are stolen "repurposed" from theatre seating systems.

    The basic pivot points used in the Omnimover rides (Mansion) and the Teacups are the front wheel spindles, tapered roller bearings and wheel hubs from 50's Nash Ramblers. The big advantage was the spindle design - they had a flat backing plate with bolt holes, just slap it down on a flat surface and bolt it in place. They ordered those spindles by the hundreds from automotive suppliers. Why build custom and expensive parts for the pivot point when you can buy it pre-made and pre-machined for only pennies?

    They got things done quick, and wasted time is money - Especially when you only have a year and a day to get the world's first Theme Park open.

    Nowadays you have to have a fully engineered blueprint cleared by three certified engineers, put the part through a competitive bidding process, accept one of the bids, go through all the paperwork to get it made - and then you have to wait for it to actually be made. And once it's finished, each piece has to be acompanied by a pile of safety paperwork. That whole rigamarole takes a lot of time, and costs a lot of money.

    I'm in the "Crank it out and get it done" camp, if you haven't guessed yet. If you get a true Craftsman doing the work, it's intuitive - when it's "right" you know it, and it doesn't take a full engineering analysis to tell you what you already know.

    --<< Bruce >>--
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  13. #28

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    Wow, and I see now. It's a shame that beauracracies feed upon themselves. You would think that they would see the efficiency of a faster, leaner, well run shop, which has to be more cost effective, but management does what management does, I suppose...

  14. #29

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    Re: Finding Nemo needs more subs!

    Quote Originally Posted by ni_teach
    I have said this in past posts, but the real problem is that the loading and unloading times for the subs is awful. And heven help the crew if there is a problem with the front sub which will block the second one.

    It's too late to do this, but My suggestion was to make the storage dock, a second loading dock, with a ramp to go up and over the first dock. That way it would be possible to load 4 subs at a time and not just two.

    That's my $0.02

    This is so true! We all remember the long lines for the subs. I think over my lifetime I may have rode them 2 or 3 times only. Back in those days even when the park was empty it still was a slow or long line. I am thinking they should have moved the loading and unloading area to the old motorboat area so they could keep the line out of that congested area with the monorail and tomorrow land. Keep the attraction in Fantasy land. The most important thing this would do is all them to get more subs in the attraction and being able to load 4 at a time. This also makes this a longer attraction.

    That's my 98cents
    Jason

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