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  1. #46

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    Most ride deaths are caused from error on the rider's (or guardian's) part or something unknown to the person of a physical condition undiagnosed(from what I've studied up on, anyway).

    Getting rid of thrill rides isn't going to solve the problem. It's getting rid of ignorance.

    The very first Disneyland death was on the Matterhorn, a thrill ride. Yet the 15 year old that died lost his life before anything extreme was happening with his bobsled. He had gone with a group of friends and was currently in a fight with his girlfriend. In a fit of testosterone, he stands up while his bobsled is going up the first huge/steep lift hill. He loses his balance, falls out, and gets crushed at the bottom. Had this boy listened to clear instructions to remain seated at all times, that would not have happened. It's sad that a boy at such a young age died, but obviously he didn't listen to safety instructions.

  2. #47

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    Smile Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperbole
    No one has died on California Screamin, or the test track either. But someone HAS died from the PeopleMover, MarkTwain, and other "sedate" attractions.

    I understand your desire to protect people, but it makes no sense to not have any thrill rides just on the outside chance that someday someone might get hurt.
    I agree with you completely. But if you would let me comment for a second...

    People Mover deaths were caused by stupidity.... right? I think that is correct. Mark Twain was a genuine fluke compounded perhaps by poor comminication/training and perhaps maintenace and a genuine "wrong place at the wrong time" fluke aspect too.

    I am not, in no way, advocating the removal of thrill rides. But there must be a limit, a human tolerance threshhold that right now, seems set too high.

    But again.. for all those who suggest I am off my rocker... not you... please.. just think about it. I am a Disney apologiust too but at some point we must look at the onus of responsibility and I think it lies with the industry to provide rides where there is always an inherint danger but the probability is low. In light of the deaths since 1994, something has gone wrong with that probability.

    Does that make sence? I am doing my best to write this and be completly honest and also honour your point as well. I am not on anyone's polar opposite and think perhaps that a few who have mocked my opinion are not genuine in their responce.

  3. #48

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatle_johnny
    I agree with you completely. But if you would let me comment for a second...

    People Mover deaths were caused by stupidity.... right? I think that is correct. Mark Twain was a genuine fluke compounded perhaps by poor comminication/training and perhaps maintenace and a genuine "wrong place at the wrong time" fluke aspect too.

    I am not, in no way, advocating the removal of thrill rides. But there must be a limit, a human tolerance threshhold that right now, seems set too high.

    But again.. for all those who suggest I am off my rocker... not you... please.. just think about it. I am a Disney apologiust too but at some point we must look at the onus of responsibility and I think it lies with the industry to provide rides where there is always an inherint danger but the probability is low. In light of the deaths since 1994, something has gone wrong with that probability.

    Does that make sence? I am doing my best to write this and be completly honest and also honour your point as well. I am not on anyone's polar opposite and think perhaps that a few who have mocked my opinion are not genuine in their responce.
    The human tolerance in the end must be chosen by the guest. If a ride is created and tested to be safe for the public, then the average guest who meets the requirements should be able to ride it safely. If an individual has a more difficult time handling major thrill rides, then they should know that on a personal scale and say "I'm not going to go on this because I know I won't feel well".

  4. #49

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatle_johnny
    Do you think Walt would agree with you? I don't rememeber him saying: "Disneyland is your land.....good luck."

    There are safer alternatives. Indiana Jones is an excellent example. Mission Space and Rock and Rollercoster seem to be driven by competition, not Walt's original intention, that is, to create a place where parents and children could play together.

    But thank you for your input.
    I think to say that Walt Disney was not a thrill junkie is a mischaracterization. I saw a video of him playing with a little boy. They would run and jump on a cart that then spend away. Now Walt was in his 40's at the time. His kids were well into their teens. He still had fun jumping on the cart.

    Now thrill rides were not the fashion when Walt was alive. But he is responsible for Disneyland's FIRST thrill ride, the Matterhorn. Remember that theme was sledding down the mountain. He also was the one who suggested putting a roller-coaster in the dark, which later became Space Mountain. From all of this evidence, Walt was a big kid. He love having fun as the next person. I don't think he was against thrill rides. He did see that the bulk of his rides were ones that the whole family could enjoy together. But that does not mean that a few more thrilling rides are not possible at DL.
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  5. #50

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    I'd like to see statistics of how many people die seated in Movie theatres or sitting in restaurants. I bet it'd be higher than you think.

    Death happens everywhere. When it happens in a theme park it gets media attention. Sad, but true.
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  6. #51

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    Quote Originally Posted by lashbear
    I'd like to see statistics of how many people die seated in Movie theatres or sitting in restaurants. I bet it'd be higher than you think.

    Death happens everywhere. When it happens in a theme park it gets media attention. Sad, but true.
    EXACTLY! When I saw the report today on CNN, I told my son that if this child had died anywhere but a Disney park, it would not have made the news. Of course a ride malfunction should be reported on the news, but a person who has a medical problem and happens to die while on a Disney ride--that just isn't newsworthy. Tragic, yes, but not newsworthy.

  7. #52

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    And to LASHBEARS's point about people dying in movie theatres... i heard on the news today that a guy in his 50s set up his hammock for a summer snooze. One of the trees he tied it to snapped, fell on his head and killed him..... go figure....

  8. #53

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O
    Beatle_johnny accused me of making an assumption that many of these deaths are attributed to undiagnosed medical conditions. I am in no way claiming any knowledge of what happened today. Beatle_johnny though does seem to want to ignore this FACT regarding many amusement ride deaths.
    PUBLIC APPOLOGY!!!! (even if it is spelled wrong)

    I thought lazyboy was being outrageous in a previous statement... it turns out he was actually quoting someone else, the Florida Medical Examiner.

    So I owe him a coke.

  9. #54

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    Talking Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    this thread has gone chip n' dale nutZ!
    Micoofy Duck
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  10. #55

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    The most dangerous ride at Disneyland is Pooh. I could die of depression over the E-Ticket they removed for this fetus ride (kids have more taste).

    As for deaths, perhaps a biomedical scan before entry? Although a lot of guests might not like "Warning: Clinically Obese - High Risk Factors!" flashing over them on the huge display.

  11. #56

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    I wouldn't say thrill rides are inherently dangerous, I think the PeopleMover probably killed more people than all the thrill rides at Disneyland combined.

    I think the more important thing of thrill rides is how they are relatively short (3-5 minutes), usually lack imagination, don't allow for relaxation or taking a break, and sometimes have a low ride capacity. I can't take more than 5 or 6 hours at Magic Mountain because those rides pound me into the ground and don't give me any time to relax or catch my breath. I think theme parks today definitely need a mix though, with more slow rides than thrill rides. I'm thinking about a 70/30 ratio of slow rides to thrill rides sounds about right for Disneyland. We have the technology available today to create thrill rides so we should definitely use it, but at the same time we have to stay true to the spirit of Disneyland and produce slow imaginative rides. The current administration is doing an absolutely superb job of balancing this delicate mix.

  12. #57

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    Quote Originally Posted by lashbear
    I'd like to see statistics of how many people die seated in Movie theatres or sitting in restaurants. I bet it'd be higher than you think.

    Death happens everywhere. When it happens in a theme park it gets media attention. Sad, but true.
    How true...my mom managed a 50 unit apartment building for 20 years and in that time 4 people died in their apartments of natural causes. If you assume that each unit was rented for only a 6 month period of time and had 2 different sets of 3 people living in it for each 6 month period, (50 units x 6 people per unit per year x 20 years) you would have 6000 people (which is a massively high number as there were people who lived there for many years...her turnover was actually low by industry standards). Now divide 4 by 6000 and you get .000666%. It doesn't seem very safe to live in that apartment complex...I think I'll take the Disneyland odds.

  13. #58

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    There's not more that Disney and other operators can do. There are warnings EVERYWHERE and multiple sizing stations, not to mention bilingual safety spiels. And people complain about the lawyers' insistance on those.
    But when you think of it, they've covered their bases extremely well. Short of a personal interview with each rider and their doctors, I don't know what else Operators can do to inform people of the risks. If people choose to ignore the risks, it's no fault of the Parks.

  14. #59

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    In 2004 and 2005 the North American Disney parks hosted about 123 million people.

    123 MILLION PEOPLE!!!!

    And out of 123 million people 6 people died.

    - The Big Thunder accident was the only one that was proven to be the fault of Disney. I don't think anybody is disputing that.

    Can anybody even come up with a percentage for that???? My calculator couldn't.

    Regarding the difference in Six Flags/Disney. When you have more people in your parks the chances of things like this happening increase.

    We take our kids to parks ALL THE TIME and people constantly ask us if we feel safe taking our kids on all the rides. The answer without any doubt is YES. I have never felt unsafe on any ride (well, except those coasters in the Philippines, but I wouldn't have let my kids on those).

    As for the argument of not building rides that are the "Tallest/Fastest" I'd just say that it's a business and you can't argue with the numbers of visitors Kindga Ka and TTD brought in. Heck, we flew to NJ last year to ride KK.


  15. #60

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    Re: Does a theme park need dangerous thrill rides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatle_johnny
    ...One of the trees he tied it to snapped, fell on his head and killed him..... go figure....
    I knew it !! BAN THE TREES !!!

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