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  1. #1

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    Your Forgetting, It Started With A MOUSE!

    After reading alot of articals on these boards, I have come to the conclusion that you have all forgot walts idea. That it all started with a mouse. Alot of people on these boards keep complaining that they don't want any more rides to be "Pixared" or to have "annimation themes". Well if that be the case, then Disney might not have ever been created if you were all in charge. Disney started the company with, (gasp) ANNIMATION!, and a small mouse named Mickey. And all of disneys themes of Dreams and Imagination can all be achied thruout annimation.

    I think the way that alot of new rides and attractions are being overlayed with new and current disney charecters is smart, because Disney is targeting their future fanbase (your children, the next generation). When Disney was targeting us they used Beauty and the beast and such. It all depends what era you were born.
    I know all the classic disney charecters can be applied to the current upcoming generation as well, but if Disney never came out with new themes and attractions then Disney would become stale. Kids don't always like what parents like.
    Take older cars for example. Kids don't love old hot rods that you love, they love fast and new sports cars, but then later in life they learn to appriciate and love the older stuff. But it just takes time.

    I think Disney knows what they are doing. And if they don't or make a mistake, then Disney fans like US will be around to tell Disney to change. Disney loves and listens to their fans.

    Derek =]

  2. #2

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    Im affraid Disney DOES NOT know what they are doing. Walt Disney, Frank Wells, and Matt Ouiment knew/knows what their doing, people like Eisner/pressler do not. It goes by who calls the shots and right now for the most part the people calling the shots dont know what their doing.

  3. #3

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    I think your right. Mr. Disney created the park for children and families. Of course there might be some things that I dont agree with, I still think having movie themed rides is great. But they need to get rid of the one's that kids dont know about. Like Mr. toads wild ride, get rid of that one and put something else. I know it's been there from the very begining, but hey, kids today dont know who mr. toad is.

  4. #4

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    Yes, it started with a mouse. So, show me on a map where Walt built the Mickey Mouse ride.

    Walt, in fact, built four original lands and Main St. USA, pushed for concepts like Liberty Street and Edison Square, actually produced the sub-land known as New Orleans Square, and completely redid Tomorrowland. In all nine of those lands, only one contained animated characters.

    To say that Walt and the Disney Company were JUST about animation is to forget Walt's achievements in live action. Why were coonskin caps so popular in the 50s? Disney's Davy Crocket. Disney did everything from live-action features to television and even the True-Life Adventures. Disneyland USED to respect the place that ALL of these elements of the Disney legacy had in Disneyland. And they even acknowledged that new characters, like the Pirates and the residents of the Haunted Mansion, could be created in this magic kingdom.

    And let's not forget, it was Eisner who brought non-Disney characters from A Long Time Ago to Tomorrowland. It was Eisner that first made rides with Toons outside Fantasyland. And it was Eisner who built Toon Town, though the only real ride of the land was built around a character Disney didn't even control the rights to.

    Walt Disney did indeed know what he was doing. And for a while, his successors did too. Now, instead of creating great rides to draw us to the park, it feels like the powers that be are luring us with Pooh and Pixar to the Edsels of attractions.
    Last edited by ModHatter; 04-21-2005 at 11:10 AM.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggergrl
    I think your right. Mr. Disney created the park for children and families. Of course there might be some things that I dont agree with, I still think having movie themed rides is great. But they need to get rid of the one's that kids dont know about. Like Mr. toads wild ride, get rid of that one and put something else. I know it's been there from the very begining, but hey, kids today dont know who mr. toad is.
    Well, psh, kids nowadays BARELY know who Mickey Mouse is. I mean, it's sad, but my little sisters have never seen classic Mickey cartoons! O_O It's really sad, and upsetting, when I take them into the Cinema on Main Street and they ask what those characters are. THey don't even recognize Mickey that way.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggergrl
    I think your right. Mr. Disney created the park for children and families. Of course there might be some things that I dont agree with, I still think having movie themed rides is great. But they need to get rid of the one's that kids dont know about. Like Mr. toads wild ride, get rid of that one and put something else. I know it's been there from the very begining, but hey, kids today dont know who mr. toad is.
    How many kids know about Uncle Remus?

    We can get the Ichabod and Mr. Toad DVD, but when is the last time kids got to see Song of the South? It hasn't been legally available in this country for about 20 years. Still a heck of a ride, even if they did have to violate the theme to put it where it is.

    More kids know about Pinocchio and Snow White, and yet more kids ride Toad. Why? Because it's the better ride.

    Having a tie-in is fine. Nature's Wonderland, the Mike Fink Keel Boats, Swiss Family Treehouse, even Matterhorn, all had tie-ins to some extent. However, the trend we're seeing is not the creation of great attractions with tie-ins. We're seeing tie-ins that are the sole basis and excuse for attractions. If Disney is going to insist on tie-ins, let's make sure the ride itself would be just as good without one.
    See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
    78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

    "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

    "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

    -- Walt Disney

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ModHatter
    We can get the Ichabod and Mr. Toad DVD, but when is the last time kids got to see Song of the South? It hasn't been legally available in this country for about 20 years. Still a heck of a ride, even if they did have to violate the theme to put it where it is.
    Song of the South has NEVER been legally available in this country. It's never been released on dvd or video.

  8. #8

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    I'm not neccessarily for or against animation-based attractions, but I think it would be wrong to base everything in the parks on animation or a commercial concept (movie, TV show). Animation-based attractions have their place, but so do attractions that come from the creative minds of Imagineering. I love Indiana Jones, Star Tours, Roger Rabbit, etc., and I'm looking forward to the Monsters, Inc. and Nemo additions. But the big draws at the parks (Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, Jungle Cruise, Thunder Mountain) came from a place far away from "let's promote the latest movie."

    I think the thing that sets the Disney parks apart from the rest (or at least what used to set them apart --- and may again someday) is the superior storytelling within the attractions. Disneyland should never become a real life, live action commercial for whatever the Disney Company wants to promote.

    I recently watched Mary Poppins on DVD, and time and again in the bonus material it was pointed out how the film was Walt's greatest achievement to date. But the "Mary Poppins' Jolly Holiday Adventure" never did materialize at any of the Parks, even though Walt could easily have fastracked it into production. (Yes, Mary Poppins makes a brief appearance in The Great Movie Ride, but she's hardly the star.)

    While I'd never try to guess what Walt might or might not have done, it seems to me that he was less interested in promoting his company through his Parks and more interested in providing quality entertainment.

    (Oh, BTW, when I taught in in southern California, the 6th graders at my school were required to read "The Wind and the Willows" as part of their classroom experience. Every year, at the end of the year, they took a class trip to Disneyland and each student was required to ride Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and report back on how it compared to the book. So lots of kids DO know who Mr. Toad is.)
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ModHatter
    If Disney is going to insist on tie-ins, let's make sure the ride itself would be just as good without one.
    Exactly right. Most of Disneyland isn't tied-in to anything except Walt's and the Imagineers' imaginations. You can't blame a large film studio for promoting its products in its own theme park... but just a tie-in isn't sufficient. The original tie-in rides were either associated with proven classics or were rides (like the Matterhorn) that didn't really need the tie-in. If a ride is inspired by or associated with a film, it still needs to be able to stand alone. INDY is fun whether you've seen the movie or not. Tarzan's Treehouse is meaningless if you haven't seen the movie.
    "Yesterday, a man walked up to me and said, 'Isn't it a shame that Walt Disney couldn't be here to see this?' and I said, "He did see this, that's why it's here."
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  10. #10

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    If we wanna get technical it started with a rabbit that got stolen, but I see what you are saying.







  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by melmel
    Song of the South has NEVER been legally available in this country. It's never been released on dvd or video.
    Well, back in the day, they used to have re-issues. As a kid, I was able to see SotS on the big screen, the way it was meant to be seen.

    Matter of fact, with how inferior Disney hand-drawn animation has been for a while, it seems like Disney could make more money reissuing its classic features. Let's face it, no matter how misbehaved the child, parents do enjoy taking their children out to a movie. But I digress...
    See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by melmel
    Song of the South has NEVER been legally available in this country. It's never been released on dvd or video.
    Acually I bought it for my mom on dvd last christmas. I am sure it was a bootleg copy but it plays really well

  13. #13

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    You are right!

    The current people who are running Disney have relied on strategic planning, marketing, and MBA's to determine rides and budgets for rides. They only evaluate an attraction on the $$$$ coming in. Many making decisions don't even like amusement parks. Michael Eisner rarely has visited Disneyland even though he is only a freeway trip away. In contrast, Walt Disney had a small studio apartment built there because he practically wanted to sleep at Disneyland! If your heart is in something, then magic happens. Walt designed and improved Disneyland on the basis of what HE liked and disliked. He also talked to guests continually asking what they liked or disliked. He had a passion for the place. That passion is probably not unlike all of us who spend time talking about Disneyland. :o The point is, Walt was not above asking for suggestions from whoever had a good idea. The current management would roll their eyes if an ordinary guest suggested a ride or improvement. I can hear management's response, "What do they know? They don't have the education or training to make those kinds of decisions!" Walt reminded everyone with the statement, "It all started with a mouse," of the humility one should approach all that was created by Disney. Walt knew that is was kind of divine providence that made the magic happen because of a mouse!
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggergrl
    But they need to get rid of the one's that kids dont know about. Like Mr. toads wild ride, get rid of that one and put something else. I know it's been there from the very begining, but hey, kids today dont know who mr. toad is.
    That helps explain a lot of problems though. It's not that they don't know and don't care, but I think the point a lot of people are trying to make with the "Pixarization" of the park is that classic films like Mr. Toad become forgotten and considered obsolete. It's a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, the company chooses to push certain films and characters, while others just as worthy get left in the dust, and not pixie dust. On the other hand, why don't the parents care enough to show these movies to their kids. It's not like their hard to find!!! This goes right to the point og this thread. It's a social thing. The parents don't do their job in the area of giving thier children perspective on more of the world around them and just hand them whatever is handy so they don't have to bother. Eisner/Pressler make it easy to facilitate this deconstruction of the company.

    As to the overall issue, I agre on the end that, yes, it was started by a mouse, and that animation is the pinacle of the company, or at least was. I think the problem for the time being, until Eisner leaves hopefully, is that those who call the shots do not understand the field they work in as an art, something sentimental to so many. Eisner pretends to have that side the Ouimet obviously has, that love for what they have been placed in charge of, but he is merely a businessman, and by NO means an artist.

    I also agree that things are tending to be a little one-sided in terms of attractions created of late. But, come on, Pixar is/was the only outlet the company has/had for actully good family movies anymore. Again, Eisner's doing in lack of knowledge. It's just that when something is good (like the pixar movies), he likes to squeeze EVERY last ounce of sincerity out of it until you can't stand to look at the characters without wretching. Like Pooh, the movie itself is so wonderful, but stuff keeps on being shoved in your face. It gets tiresome. Aladdin was the same thing. I'm not a major Aladdin person, but I like it enough. What bugs me is that EVERYTHING became about that one stupid movie, to the point where I call it "stupid" because I don't want to see another cheap-quel, another series continuing it or the Little Mermaid!! Stitch, Beauty & the Beastthe Princesses. I think people are just getting more sensitive to the "at naseum" tactic.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by melmel
    Well, psh, kids nowadays BARELY know who Mickey Mouse is. I mean, it's sad, but my little sisters have never seen classic Mickey cartoons! O_O It's really sad, and upsetting, when I take them into the Cinema on Main Street and they ask what those characters are. THey don't even recognize Mickey that way.



    My point exactly!!! I asked my former roommate is she knew what Splash Mountain was about-no clue! She's a dumb bimbo anyway (sorry, it's true) but, kids just don't know, it's ridiculous!
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