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  1. #1

    • disneyland59
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    How much change at DL is too much?

    I tried to find past threads on this but nothing popped up, recently anyway.
    Where do you think DL should draw the line when making changes? There is alot of discussion on the new POTC and "plussing" and I think about how my daughter will never see the original POTC. I'm not judging that fact as good or bad but it does give me a sense of loss. So many experiences at DL are nostalgic and traditional, for us older folk anyway. If it's another ten years before I get back to DL it will be important for me to find that certain things are still the same. I think new rides to look forward to is good, but, when does the change become too much?

  2. #2

    • Tom Chaney R.I. P.
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by lostchildhood
    I tried to find past threads on this but nothing popped up, recently anyway.
    Where do you think DL should draw the line when making changes? There is alot of discussion on the new POTC and "plussing" and I think about how my daughter will never see the original POTC. I'm not judging that fact as good or bad but it does give me a sense of loss. So many experiences at DL are nostalgic and traditional, for us older folk anyway. If it's another ten years before I get back to DL it will be important for me to find that certain things are still the same. I think new rides to look forward to is good, but, when does the change become too much?
    IMHO change is good, most of the things at DL that are gone were not that great , or were so outdated it was there time to go. I do understand your feelings about nostalgia and missing our past and wanting our children to have the same experiences we do. I tend to look at things pointing at the future, My first grandchild is 14weeks old I would like her to have her own memories growing up and not from my point of view. People tend to remember the past as a simpler time when things were better than they are now, nostalgia is a wonderful thing but we can't live in it.
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  3. #3

    • disneyland59
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    Yes, I think change is exciting for new creative ideas, updates etc. But, do some elements need to stay the same, such as the castle for instance, or the Matterhorn? Shared memories create traditions and cultural icons.

  4. #4

    • Flames Fan/Oiler Hater
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    Well, obviously they can't just level the park and build a new one, but change is necessary in order to keep Disneyland new and innovative. There are certain attractions that they will never take away (Space, Matterhorn, POTC, HM, ISAW, ect), but will upgrade and make even better so Disneyland doesn't become outdated.

  5. #5

    • Defying gravity
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    Disneyland will never be completed as long as there is imagination left in the world.

    Hmmm.....I wonder who said that?

  6. #6

    • Defying gravity
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    Sometimes, I also agree that Disneyland is changing too much.

    However, look at how many rides were there on opening day and are still almost in their original form. (All of Fantasyland except Pinocchio, Mark Twain Riverboat, all of Main Street, etc. etc. etc.)

    While I haven't seen the new PoTC in person yet, the videos show that the essence of the ride is still there.

    Walt was always trying to improve things, so, who are we to argue with the master?

  7. #7

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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    Change can be good, but say they knocked down the castle and replaced it with something more modern? Or turned HM into a rollercoaster (like the mummy in Universal orlando)?
    I think Space Mountain Mission 2 in DLRP sums my point up pretty well.

  8. #8

    • Minion
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    Disneyfans are selfish. We want our kids to experience OUR Disneyland. Whenever there's a change, they're destroying OUR memories and park. Get over it. Every generation has experienced Disneyland in its own way, and even if the same attractions were there as 1950, we'd all have different memories.

    Let kids experience Disneyland in their own way. Let them make their own memories and remember Disneyland for themselves. As long as a change is tactiful and adds to the story, updates an effect, or overall "pluses" the attraction, I say do it.

  9. #9

    • FastPass n00b
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    How much change is too much? When Michael Eisner is happy with it...that's how you know it's too much.

  10. #10

    • FastPass n00b
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    You know, it's interesting...when an attraction is updated or plussed, it's kind of painful at first but as the months and years fly by, the change not only becomes a part of the attraction, it makes what was there before seem kind of boring and dull. In other words, progress at Disneyland is a wonderful thing...IF it is truly progress and not just change for the sake of change.

    For instance, I don't think I could go back to the original Pirates of the Carribbean or Haunted Mansion now that I have seen the modern effects. That means that those rides are really making progress. Now Space Mountain on the other hand, I could take or leave the changes. Both the 1977 version and 2005 version appeal to me equally so I wouldn't care if it did go back. But so far everything Matt Ouimet and Friends have done is generally a step forward and occassionally a step to the side. But as far as I know they have never taken a step backwards since their tenture began.

    Keeping Disneyland a museum is a VERY bad idea. Matt and Friends are making sure that doesn't happen and even though some of their ideas might be controversial, the main point is that they are trying. Disneyland has changed more in the past 3 years than it has in the past 10. I'd definitely call that progress we can be proud of.

  11. #11

    • Animatronic
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    Improvements are great. Many changes have clearly been for the better. The '83 Fantasy Land, with the exception of loseing Skull Rock and the Pirate Ship which was a nice water feature and unique eatery. The replacement eatery is nowhere near as yummy or pretty to sit at. Now give me a more lavish eatery with a water feature that powers the imagination and I would forget all about Skull Rock. At least this one minor complaint was driven by capacity demands.

    The Matterhorn interior addition was great as well, but connecting two cars together was bad, although it did increase capacity, you no longer feel like your're racing. Still, it's understandable and it's hard to complain too much.

    The expansion of the New Orleans section of Frontierland was all good as was the Tomorrowland on the move makeover. I think everyone felt the addition of Pirates and the Haunted Mansion improved the park.

    Some changes are just plain bad because they didn't consider enough criteria or they were made on the cheap or made in a cynical attempt to make money by selling product rather than deliver an experience to the customer. Many of the character based changes fall into this camp. I doubt too many people think Pooh was an improvement over Country Bears, and I say this hating country music. It was not only made on the cheap, but seemingly for the sole reason to get people into the store to buy Pooh products. I feel this class of change is wrong for Disneyland.

    I have mixed feelings about other changes where some good came with some bad. In those cases I wish they had thought it through more, Many new rides have weakened surrounding rides and the area they're in, even the rides themself are quite good. Splash Mountain, Fantasmic, Buzz Lightyear, and others all fall into this camp.

    Other changes have seemed partially finished. Thunder Mountain replaced three large and scenic rides and freed up lots of land. This held the promise that the story of Frontierland could be enhanced with the freed land. Instead the remaining bits of the old ride have rotted, no longer being the main part of an attraction and the whole of Frontierland has suffered.

  12. #12

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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    I usually like change, but not when they deminish the mood of an attraction, or when they replace an attraction for an inferior one.

    Having said that the previous generation was probably talking about how those "new-fangled rides are ruining the classics"

  13. #13

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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyPrincess4590
    Disneyland will never be completed as long as there is imagination left in the world.

    Hmmm.....I wonder who said that?
    Me. I said that. I hope that clears things up for you.

    My hope is that so long as Pixar continues making movies & Disney continues co-opting them for rides, Walt's dream will continue to be exploited for future generations to come.
    Tref ...

  14. #14

    • Oh... it's a bobby pin.
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    We had this discussion in my Art History class a few years ago. Restoration vs. preservation.

    Restoring things means, keeping them new looking and fixing broken parts... even though it isn't the "original" work.

    Preservation is to try and preserve the piece as best as possible... even if that means that it's falling apart.

    So, "changing" disneyland.. it all depends on which point of view you use. If you want future generations to see the original park, it won't be very pretty, but it'll be Walt's own work.

    I don't know where I stand on this subject... *ponders*

    To live would be an awfully big adventure.

  15. #15

    • Minion
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    Re: How much change at DL is too much?

    i'll tell you what, i already look old to kids because i can't talk about the "good ol days" at disneyland when DCA was a parking lot and pirates chased women....an i'm only 19!

    make things worse, o/t but i had a kid ask me "what was that big pond thingy next to the matterhorn, what a waste of space!" i just gasped and said a prayer for the future generations......make things worse, this was IN the park

    i don't like most of the changes, but change is unavoidable so i will continue to visit my 4th home (1 - home 2- work 3- bowling alley 4- disneyland)


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