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  1. #16

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Oh, boy, do I feel your pain. I miss all of the attractions/menu items you mentioned...and more. My husband and I stopped renewing our APs for five years from '98 to '03(ish). We were getting disheartened by the direction things were going. Right after the remodel of Tommorrowland we stopped renewing. We still visited once or twice a year but we didn't have the heart to commit to going monthly or weekly. I am glad we scaled back for a few years to reevaluate why we were going so frequently and how it felt to be the occasional guest rather than the local regular. And now for the last few years we have been back going 50+ times a year. We still have worries about the decisions that are being made but our love of Disneyland, past and present (and hopefully future), wins out.

  2. #17

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    -This is not just about Tom Sawyers I promise, although it was the catalyst to the rant -

    The other day when I heard of this Tom Sawyer Island conversion into another Pirates attraction I think I have finally hit the breaking point. I have in the past few years not been very happy about many of the changes in DL but this has just got to be the straw that broke the camels back. I do not know if I should now keep renewing my PAP thus giving the suits the idea that they can make as many changes as they want without consideration to a loyal and large big spending group of customers.

    When I was a child I had never heard of Tom Sawyer and that was over 20 years ago, the fact I did not know who Tom Sawyer was, did not prevent me from totally enjoying all exploration and excitement that the island provided me .Exploring spooky caves, climbing over fun bridges, rocks, exploring a "real" fort, with its own spooky graveyard. Why can't we let children of today discover things on there own and experience some non computer "interactive" entertainment. Tom Sawyer's island WAS a fun "Interactive" place before they took all the fun OUT of it (closure of the fort, some of the caves, the play structures, etc) Instead of spending mega millions on a questionable island rebuild idea why not spend much less money to fix up the place and make it FUN AGAIN? There is enough Pirates stuff around DL, Disneyland will still have huge summer without installing some Pirates Island.

    Fix Tom Sawyers and stop destroying the original magic that is left in Disneyland, you know I am getting real sick and tired of this stuff. I am thinking about stopping spending the thousands of dollars I spend each year at DL, with the Mall-ification of all the store's on main streets, the removal of some of the live entertainment, the pushy photographers trying to milk the guests of more money, the constant price increases on food along with removal of certain menu items. The poor treatment of Cast Members (In my honest opinion) I am just getting real tired of this. I know people and management likes to think of us as garbage or annoying but we collectively spend hundreds of THOUSANDS of dollars each YEAR at Dland, way way more then any general tourist spends "Disney Parks" Management Stop sacrificing your base, your tent pole, your free PR and marketing "AP'ers" and help keep some of the magic in the land. The past few years we have seen positive and negative changes, unfortunately I would have to say this TSI change into POTC island smells to me like a Swiss Family Robinson redux and we all know how great that attraction turned out.
    I hope this project does not get the green light, I am all for a TSI refurb at a small fraction of the cost. Why not just release a Tom Sawyer movie for the new era?

    As much as I love Dland perhaps it is time that we stood together and threatened management with non renewals of our passes. It is time that we stop being taken for granted. I do not want to start a flame war regarding that statement. I love my AP and I love Dland I just want to see it stay special, I see too many little things being taken away and it hurts. President Lincoln at the opera house, gone. The Sky-way, gone, The keel boats, Gone, The settlers cabin, gone, Jolly Trolley, Gone, Goofy's bounce house, gone. "the real" Penny Arcade with lots of old time games, gone, The Pirate fortune teller machine, gone, the glass blowing shop, gone. The fish tacos in frontier land, gone. The waterfall around the rivers of America, gone. Some of the live atmospheric entertainment, gone. ,poor, The carpet in HM, gone. The carpet in TT, gone. The falling ice in Indy, gone, The green laser in Indy when entering the forbidden temple, gone. Disneyland park specific clothing and merchandise, almost gone. The Tiki Room, Not gone Thank you very much! Lets not forget the good I know I am ranting sorry, I just keep feeling piece by piece the things I love the most about the park (the little and not so little things) are changing and not always for the best.

    -End Rant. Proceed to make decision about PAP renewal.
    I know there is much worse in life to worry about but DL is my way of enjoying the downtime, having fun with the family, it is a important past time that I want to share with my children's children without it turning into a expensive mall with rides. Thanks for listening.

    Just don't make any hasty decisions until after you know the idea to retheme the island is final . It might not even get a green light.

  3. #18

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    The reason IMHO, the suits have taken over, the imaginations have been replaced by powerpoints and excell spreadsheets. Innovation has gone the way of capitalization at the expense of imagination.
    Well said!

  4. #19

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Fine. Don't renew your PAP.
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  5. #20

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by barfownz View Post
    I'm wish you man. I dislike all this priate crap going on in the resort. Its just a fad and when this fad is gone, Disney will be sorry!
    The lore for pirates has been around for many, many decades. I mean, even Walt was fascinated with Pirates during his time on earth. Who here has never once pretended to be a pirate?


    Basically, what I am saying is that if this is a fad, then its been around for a very long time. Disney just shined a brighter light on it .

  6. #21

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Wrassler View Post
    Just don't make any hasty decisions until after you know the idea to retheme the island is final . It might not even get a green light.
    The Tom Sawyer decision is not the only reason, it is one of many reasons as the long winded post discussed.

  7. #22

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Only things I can think of reading this "rant" were these quotes I found online from Walt Disney:

    "It's something that will never be finished. Something that I can keep developing...and adding to."
    "Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world."
    I figure, if you can't get over the fact that Disneyland will always be changing, AS WALT WOULD HAVE WANTED IT TO, then maybe you really shouldn't renew your AP.

  8. #23

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by DizneeProfitEar View Post
    On one hand I agree with you. Leave the classics alone. Tom Sawyer's Island is magical and has fun memories.
    Well it was fun until the lawyers strangled it and termite chomped it down .

    I liked the teetering rock thing though. I think they locked it up now if I am correct. To me, that is what made the island unique.

    On the other hand, I disagree with you. I'm a Disney traditionalist too, but, this change to the Island is very welcome and not bad, rushed planning on the part of Burbank. Although Al Lutz' column certainly makes it clear that there is a scramble to make these changes.
    I agree. Rushing things is bad because it leaves out the small details.

    It's been quoted many times before, but it needs repeating. Walt Disney never wanted Disneyland to become stagnant. It should always be in a state of change and growing.
    True.

    Under the Eisner administration, that state of change was usually to something worse. I think it's different now and the much touted, John Lasseter, is certainly doing his best to make the place what it once was and put in effect changes that will restore the magic. The restored Tomorrowland Terrace is a shining example of that today. Reread Al's column and look how much money was secured to make changes for the better to both parks. Those are big numbers. In Eisner's day, they'd be lucky to get a $2 budget.
    I think Lassetter can do good if we all give him a chance. He is known for his attention to detail and good story telling. Right now, he is just a surfer trying to catch the wave, figuratively speaking of course .

    I would like to see TSI themed to something different other than Pirates. I agree, it is a fad for a typical Bruckheimer film and will peter out in a few years from now. They should still stick to Americana for that Island. But, at this point, any change will be an improvement. The Island needs something that works for both adults and kids and fully entertains ... not just brings up fond memories of the past.
    Oh, so that is what Walt Jr. meant. I thought he was saying the love for pirates would phase out . My bad .

    My question is, if infact, they go through with this transformations, where will they put all the stuff for Fantasmic? Would tehy keep them in the same area and build ne compartments or something?

    The argument that Tom Sawyer is no longer relevant to today's society is a strong one. There is no doubt that my 2 young nephews have no clue who Tom Sawyer or Huck Finn are and they most likely wouldn't care if they did know the stories. Whether we like it or not, times have changed and what was once exciting in the 50's & 60's is no longer the rule. I honestly believe Walt would want to have Tom Sawyer's Island changed a long time ago.
    It is unfortunate these days that kids do not know the story of Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn .

    Walt's vision for family entertainment is as relevant today as it was when he was alive. He was a genius and knew what people wanted. I think we should honor his credo about Disneyland never being completed. These changes should be welcome. If I had my drothers, they should take California Adventure and make it into a museum park with all the great classic Disneyland rides that have gone the way of the dodo.
    To me, if the idea becomes a reality, it would be welcomed as long as the changes are done right and creatively.

  9. #24

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    I think Disneyland is doing a good job with the atmospheric entertainment goes, especially regarding Disney's HalloweenTime. The Pumpkin Festival seems like a hit and the entertainment manager I talked to seemed to realize this. Hopefully they do this periodic entertainment throughout the year.

  10. #25

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Experiment626 View Post
    Only things I can think of reading this "rant" were these quotes I found online from Walt Disney:
    I figure, if you can't get over the fact that Disneyland will always be changing, AS WALT WOULD HAVE WANTED IT TO, then maybe you really shouldn't renew your AP.
    Thanks for the quotes Experiment626- Perhaps my thoughts got lost in the "Rant" but I am not saying that Disneyland should not Change.
    But I can tell you this, I know Mr. Disney would want any changes made to be changes for the better and not for the worse. Frankly there have been lots of changes for the worse over the last number of years. Small little detail meant the world to Mr. Disney, if you take a walk through the park today you will see alot of the "small details" are being overlooked. Again my post was not just regarding this Tom Sawyer replacement, it was what got me worked up but it goes much much deeper that Tom Sawyer. That is what I am trying to get across. If we are looking at a $20 million dollar budget for this rework I am sure we can spend 5 million, enhance the current Island and spend the other $15million at reworking our HR department rethinking our ODV themes, our Disney Vacation booths and our Main Street merchanidse choices. I think Mr. Disney would expect no less.

  11. #26

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Experiment626 View Post
    Only things I can think of reading this "rant" were these quotes I found online from Walt Disney:





    I figure, if you can't get over the fact that Disneyland will always be changing, AS WALT WOULD HAVE WANTED IT TO, then maybe you really shouldn't renew your AP.
    Exactly. You're better off without your AP if you won't enjoy the park's experience.

    And to be honest, if it's a case of making a stand against Disney - I don't think Disney will flinch if you choose not to renew it. And if they did, it wouldn't be nearly enough to scrap these ideas. I think the "You know what, I don't like what new plans are going into Disneyland, I'm not going to renew my PAP" is rather silly to be honest.
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  12. #27

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    If those are the only reasons you come to Disneyland and spend money, then by all means don't renew your pass. For some of us, we have different reasons for going, so you shouldn't also expect others to join in your boycott decision if we have different reasons for being passholders.

  13. #28

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedway View Post
    ........And to be honest, if it's a case of making a stand against Disney - I don't think Disney will flinch if you choose not to renew it. And if they did, it wouldn't be nearly enough to scrap these ideas. I think the "You know what, I don't like what new plans are going into Disneyland, I'm not going to renew my PAP" is rather silly to be honest.
    If thousands of AP holders decided that the magic was fleeting and owning yearly membership to "Just another theme park" was not in the best interest of the individual then perhaps it would cause the Executive staff to take a look at the bread and butter of the resort at this point. While I have and continue to argue regarding if creating the AP program in the first places for Disneyland was a good idea, at this point that is moot point, we do provide a significant yearly and weekly revenue stream for the company. All I and I imagine (We) ask is that the magic is preserved, the theme's are respected and if things are going to change by golly change them for the better. If you want us to shop keep the shops themed and a little different then just going to a mega mall. Please do not stalk us to take a picture so you can sell it to us for $20 dollars. Keep the magic in the park. Otherwise it becomes as I discussed earlier JATP ("Just another theme park") Do you think I think DL really cares weather I spend my $359 dollars each year just for the pass not including the hundreds of dollars I spend each visit? They probably care just a little bit, now if there were more people who felt the way I did then perhaps they would start to care a bit more. Listen I am a dreamer, I wish upon stars and I Believe. And I will keep on remembering that dreams come true.


    P.S Frogberto: I am sharing my opinions with you, I am ranting, suggesting possibly we might want to think about making our voices heard perhaps with non renewal, I am not expecting you to not renew your AP or to Boycott the company. If you feel things are going great and heading down a wonderfull direction then that is your right. I happen to not see things that way and perhaps it is because I have seen the park develop and un-develop over the last 30+ years. I want the best for the park, which I believe is a national treasure.
    Last edited by CAspace; 10-04-2006 at 11:52 AM.

  14. #29

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    -End Rant. Proceed to make decision about PAP renewal.
    I know there is much worse in life to worry about but DL is my way of enjoying the downtime, having fun with the family, it is a important past time that I want to share with my children's children without it turning into a expensive mall with rides. Thanks for listening.
    This is always a good idea, regardless of how you feel about any specific plans.
    Not as if you won't have a chance in a few years to buy AP's again.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  15. #30

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogberto View Post
    If those are the only reasons you come to Disneyland and spend money, then by all means don't renew your pass. For some of us, we have different reasons for going, so you shouldn't also expect others to join in your boycott decision if we have different reasons for being passholders.
    I agree. People are threatening to stop buying AP's but I have to say they are lucky to have one in the first place. I live hundreds of miles away from Disneyland, but wish I could go to DL as often as many other MCers here.

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