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  1. #61

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post

    With Disney, they are loosing on the AP's (because of the fact that AP holders do go so often. A 365 day AP costs $359. A 1 day 1 park pass is $53 (1 day park hopper is $73). After just 7 visits to Disneyland alone, they are losing money on your AP. If you go to both parks, they are losing money after only 5 visits. It doesn't matter what people would do if they didn't have the AP's... what matters is what is happening. Every time you renew your AP, after your 6th visit or so, you are causing a net loss to Disney of about $63/visit. Multiply that out by ALL the AP holders out there and it ads up to a fairly significant figure over a year.

    If an AP holder stops renewing and pays for every visit to Disneyland:
    1) They can obviously afford the 6 visits their AP is worth or they wouldn't own one in the first place.
    2) If they go those 6 times, then there is no difference to Disney.
    3) How many APers could go from being able to go whenever to only 6 times/year? Some, but many no.
    4) Any visits over those initial 6 are a profit that Disney didn't have when they had their AP.
    But what are you basing your assessment on? Is it personal observation and speculation or can you provide a link to some actual numbers that say Disney losses money on every single AP they sell? I'd really like to see some factual evidence to support this argument. If you got some I'd, respectfully, like to see it.
    IMO - YMMV - FYIGM


  2. #62

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Plenty of multi-billion dollar corporations sell you things at a loss. X-Box is sold at a net loss. They make up for it in game sales. Playstation is sold at a loss. Again, game sales make up the difference.

    Cell phones are sold at very drastic losses. They make up for it in higher plan costs and other fees.

    Cable services are sold at a loss and made up for by advertising and partnerships...

    With Disney, they are loosing on the AP's (because of the fact that AP holders do go so often. A 365 day AP costs $359. A 1 day 1 park pass is $53 (1 day park hopper is $73). After just 7 visits to Disneyland alone, they are losing money on your AP.
    You're not applying the same logic you use in your initial premises to your Disney example.

    In all your other business examples, you state, "They make up for it (the loss) in (additional sales, fees, costs, etc...)"

    But you don't ever mention that Disney is making up for the "loss" elsewhere. You just compare entry prices. And that's not a fair argument

    Do you really think Disney doesn't make up for the reduced price of APs in other ways?

    Of course they do! They make it up in food and merchandise sales.

    I agree with French25 and Frogberto and others...Disney is not going to do anything that loses them money. Sure, they may offer you a "loss leader" to get you in the door, but then, once you're through those gates, hang on to your wallet!

  3. #63

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    I personally think they should have more Lakers themed stuff there , then to my gf's demise we'd spend every day there....sheesh, every awaking moment!!!

    But no they do make money with AP's...a AP holder has the ability to spend dollars, lets say for dinner at DL rather than an outside joint that they regularly would if they didn't have the AP. Thats just one example, but they're just trying to keep the dollars we spend on daily expenses in the park.

    But regardless, I go because it's relaxing, fun and a place where I can enjoy a day with my bella.

    ok...you may continue...

  4. #64

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    I kinda thought the math in the last post showed that. Overall they tend to come out ahead because of food/souvenier purchases. That can very quickly recoup the cost of park addmission and then some. It's on the actual AP itself that they lose. They still aren't making what they could be if you didn't have all those free entries after the first 6 that pay for the AP itself.

    It is like the park-hopper ticket prices at WDW. The difference between a 6 and 7 day pass is $1.33 (Straight from Disney). $1.33 for a whole extra day at ALL 4 PARKS. Tell me that that is not a loss. They are charging less per day the more days you stay. And that is because they stand to make more money off of hotels, food and souveniers if they take the hit in the ticket prices. If they can keep you there an extra day longer, they stand to make more money off of you so they are willing to take the hit.

    The same concept applies to the AP's. They are willing to take the hit in ticket sales if they can get you coming back to the park more because you'll spend more on food and other stuff if you come back more.

    It's solid business practice that many businesses do. There isn't a weblink I can find except to WDW ticket prices as any sort of "hard proof". It's just normal, everyday, real economic and business practice.

    Example: Have you ever noticed how much higher a cell phone price is if you don't buy it with a plan? Wondered why ever? It's because if you are buying the plan, they are making money off of you for the entire length of your contract. The amount of money they make off of that contract (usually 2 years, at say $39 - a standard lowest plan rate) can reach up to $1000. That covers the cost of even the nicest new phones and the service they provide. Tower locations are leased out. Network time can be rented out. They make plenty of money back despite the loss they take to "give you a deal".

    Razor blades. They give you the little stick, and then charge you through the nose for the blades which really cost them about 50 cents a piece to make.

    Internet. They basically give you your modem for free, but then charge you higher service fees for the length of your contract to recoup that and then some.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  5. #65

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    One point: there is a big different between "AP" boycott (not renewing your AP)
    vs a "DL" boycott (Not going to DL at all).

    As noted, an AP "boycott" with going the same number of days but paying full
    1 day ticket, means WDC makes more money. Purely on cost to enter, WDC
    loses money on AP, but obviously they've done the research to know that
    it is made up in product & food sales.

    A "DL" boycott in large numbers, on the other hand, will definitely hurt WDC.
    But that has little to do with APs.

  6. #66

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    With Disney, they are loosing on the AP's (because of the fact that AP holders do go so often. A 365 day AP costs $359. A 1 day 1 park pass is $53 (1 day park hopper is $73). After just 7 visits to Disneyland alone, they are losing money on your AP. If you go to both parks, they are losing money after only 5 visits.
    The only way Disney would suffer an actual loss would be is they sold me something for less than it cost them to make it. For example, if Disney sold me an X-Box for $100 when it cost them $120 to make it, they would suffer a loss (I have no idea how much an X-Box costs but it’s not relevant to the point I’m trying to make).

    All Disney has to charge me in order for it to not suffer a loss is the amount they spend on maintenance and payroll for the park divided by the number of people who attend the park that day. If we broke it down… I’d pay a dollar whenever I walk through the turnstiles, spend another $20 inside…and Disney would probably make a profit. A small profit but a profit nonetheless.

    I paid $229 for my annual pass. I also spend approximately $20 to $30 on food and another $10 on a pin each time I go (I’m being conservative with my approximations). I go about twice a month.
    If Disney stopped selling their APs, I’d go once a year. Maybe twice. They’re losing about $840 ($35 x 24) a year from me. Without an AP… I’d be spending $120 a year, at most.

  7. #67

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Okay, I'm going to try to type this out in as much of a respectful manner as possible. If I offend or insult anybody I am truly sorry, it is not how I mean it.

    To be honest, I am truly getting tired of being told that if change doesn't occur than Disneyland is nothing more than a museum. Nowhere have I read anybody actually STATING that they'd like to see Dland remain as a museum-type place to visit. (I could be wrong.)

    Like I have said in many other posts I am not against change. Change is a good thing, but only in little doses - in my opinion. Again, I hate to use this example again, but it does serve a purpose. When "Titanic" was released and became such a HUGE success I was happy (more for my favorite singer, Celine Dion.) However, the more that "Titanic" was pushed into peoples' faces the more people didn't want to hear or see anything to do with it. Case in point, "My Heart Will Go On" became an iconic song, yes, however it was so overdone and overplayed people started to detest the song, and Celine herself. Luckily, no theme parks were stupid enough to consider placing a "Titanic"ish ride in their parks.

    With that said, I am all for changing ASPECTS of attractions, or refirbishing them, or creating totally brand new attractions. To me the Pirates change to TSI is what would be considered, "a quick 'easy' fix." It's only going to make people want to visit the Island more for a few years, then, once the Pirates fad goes out of style it'll go back to what it's like right now. All the Island needs is a good chunk of money to be implemented into it so that a new eating joint, perhaps a store, and an actual ride on the island to make it more desireable.

    Again, I could be totally wrong with everything I've said - after all I'm not everybody else and their mothers. But what I am saying is look what happened when the People Mover was removed. Look what happened when Swiss Family Robinson's treehouse was changed to Tarzan's treehouse. If Disney IS to change TSI they better take more than 7 months to do it. I, in no way, want to see it go the way of Rod Rockets. If they have to shut down the island for a year then so be it. Yes, it'll make guests mad at first, but if the change is done creatively and wisely, people will love it more than if it were to be a half-a**ed job.

    I'm sure my brain has more views on this subject that want to get out, but this is all I can think of for now. I'll post more if I think of it.

    ...Joe...

  8. #68

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    Talking Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    wouldn't the base price of admission and the discount be quantity based? an example would be as if you were buying DL 'wholesale'.

    why are we all arguing about this? there's people at Disney that get paid enough to do the thinking and calculating and they're not stupid. I'm sure there are AP holders that are accountants or economists that would've known the difference. ultimitly, who cares, enjoy your savings and your time at the park


    ...lets move on and smile

  9. #69

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    Thumbs up Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by goofygoof View Post
    ...lets move on and smile
    LOL...I agree!

    Disney's gonna do what they want anyway. Yes, we could "sway their decision" if we actually took the time to sit down and write a letter explaining our viewpoints (like I'm going to do tonight). However, there's more to life than b**tching about the change of an attraction at Dland. Example...hunger, homelessness, poverty, hate crimes, descrimination, murder, etc.

    I think I'm done with this topic...at least on this message board. LOL

  10. #70

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksladysparrow View Post
    I'mpretty sure Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln is returning in 2007, thats what i I read somewhere, can anyone confirm this?
    Oh, I hope so!! It's one of my favorite attractions! I just can't believe that some people had never even taken the time to even see it!
    "Happiness is a state of mind...." Walt Disney


    "You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you." Walt Disney



    thmar

  11. #71

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by JosephTNielsen View Post
    ...When "Titanic" was released and became such a HUGE success I was happy (more for my favorite singer, Celine Dion.) ...
    Uh, hey, what was that you were saying again? You lost me at "my favorite singer, Celine Dion."


  12. #72

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogberto View Post
    Uh, hey, what was that you were saying again? You lost me at "my favorite singer, Celine Dion."

    LMAO....funny, REAL funny. ::mutters "Smarta**" under breath:: LMAO

    ...Joe...

  13. #73

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by French25Fan View Post
    . . .
    I paid $229 for my annual pass. I also spend approximately $20 to $30 on food and another $10 on a pin each time I go (I’m being conservative with my approximations). I go about twice a month.
    If Disney stopped selling their APs, I’d go once a year. Maybe twice. They’re losing about $840 ($35 x 24) a year from me. Without an AP… I’d be spending $120 a year, at most.
    Remember this is about an AP 'boycott' not about going to DL fewer times.
    (premise of the original post).

    Yes. if you go fewer (or much fewer) times, then WDC will obviously be hurt financially. That's a "DL boycott".

    Basically, it's WDC's financial advantage to have more general admission
    visitors when the DLR is full, but when it's not, then it's better to have
    APs than fewer visitors overall.

  14. #74

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by nish221 View Post
    Basically, it's WDC's financial advantage to have more general admission
    visitors when the DLR is full, but when it's not, then it's better to have
    APs than fewer visitors overall.
    Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

  15. #75

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    wow, everyones confusing each other and reading too much into things...we're (AP holders) are enjoying the best place ever built (tie with staples centers, but only when the lakers play there) at a rate we save money and get to enjoy the park, its great dining offerings and a special place in the hearts of many couples....go ahead get gone with it!!

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