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  1. #1

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    Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    -This is not just about Tom Sawyers I promise, although it was the catalyst to the rant -

    The other day when I heard of this Tom Sawyer Island conversion into another Pirates attraction I think I have finally hit the breaking point. I have in the past few years not been very happy about many of the changes in DL but this has just got to be the straw that broke the camels back. I do not know if I should now keep renewing my PAP thus giving the suits the idea that they can make as many changes as they want without consideration to a loyal and large big spending group of customers.

    When I was a child I had never heard of Tom Sawyer and that was over 20 years ago, the fact I did not know who Tom Sawyer was, did not prevent me from totally enjoying all exploration and excitement that the island provided me .Exploring spooky caves, climbing over fun bridges, rocks, exploring a "real" fort, with its own spooky graveyard. Why can't we let children of today discover things on there own and experience some non computer "interactive" entertainment. Tom Sawyer's island WAS a fun "Interactive" place before they took all the fun OUT of it (closure of the fort, some of the caves, the play structures, etc) Instead of spending mega millions on a questionable island rebuild idea why not spend much less money to fix up the place and make it FUN AGAIN? There is enough Pirates stuff around DL, Disneyland will still have huge summer without installing some Pirates Island.

    Fix Tom Sawyers and stop destroying the original magic that is left in Disneyland, you know I am getting real sick and tired of this stuff. I am thinking about stopping spending the thousands of dollars I spend each year at DL, with the Mall-ification of all the store's on main streets, the removal of some of the live entertainment, the pushy photographers trying to milk the guests of more money, the constant price increases on food along with removal of certain menu items. The poor treatment of Cast Members (In my honest opinion) I am just getting real tired of this. I know people and management likes to think of us as garbage or annoying but we collectively spend hundreds of THOUSANDS of dollars each YEAR at Dland, way way more then any general tourist spends "Disney Parks" Management Stop sacrificing your base, your tent pole, your free PR and marketing "AP'ers" and help keep some of the magic in the land. The past few years we have seen positive and negative changes, unfortunately I would have to say this TSI change into POTC island smells to me like a Swiss Family Robinson redux and we all know how great that attraction turned out.
    I hope this project does not get the green light, I am all for a TSI refurb at a small fraction of the cost. Why not just release a Tom Sawyer movie for the new era?

    As much as I love Dland perhaps it is time that I stand up (we?) and show management that we are not droids that will automatically renew every pass every year regardless of what decisions are made at the park. It is time that we stop being taken for granted. I do not want to start a flame war regarding that statement. I love my AP and I love Dland I just want to see it stay special, I see too many little things being taken away and it hurts. President Lincoln at the opera house, gone. The Sky-way, gone, The keel boats, Gone, The settlers cabin, gone, Jolly Trolley, Gone, Goofy's bounce house, gone. "the real" Penny Arcade with lots of old time games, gone, The Pirate fortune teller machine, gone, the glass blowing shop, gone. The fish tacos in frontier land, gone. The waterfall around the rivers of America, gone. Some of the live atmospheric entertainment, gone. ,poor, The carpet in HM, gone. The carpet in TT, gone. The falling ice in Indy, gone, The green laser in Indy when entering the forbidden temple, gone. Disneyland park specific clothing and merchandise, almost gone. The Tiki Room, Not gone Thank you very much! Lets not forget the good I know I am ranting sorry, I just keep feeling piece by piece the things I love the most about the park (the little and not so little things) are changing and not always for the best.

    -End Rant. Proceed to make decision about PAP renewal.
    I know there is much worse in life to worry about but DL is my way of enjoying the downtime, having fun with the family, it is a important past time that I want to share with my children's children without it turning into a expensive mall with rides. Thanks for listening.
    Last edited by CAspace; 10-05-2006 at 09:48 AM. Reason: changed "Ice" to "Straw" :) clarified Standing up to the Man to I instead of We, unless you feel the same way.

  2. #2

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    I'm wish you man. I dislike all this priate crap going on in the resort. Its just a fad and when this fad is gone, Disney will be sorry!

  3. #3

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    this has just got to be the ice that broke the camels back.
    Straw maybe?

  4. #4

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Good catch, I edited the text Pretty funny though.

  5. #5

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    I'll be sad to see TSI go but I am also excited to see something new. With the limited space they have available to them how can they add to the park if they don't take away first. It is unfortunate but that is the only way they can improve.

    I am not sure if pirates is the way to go but I applaud the effort to improve. I would rather see all the changes mentioned in Al's article about DCA made first. I like DCA now but if they went through and remodeled the whole park I would love it.
    Check out my new Disney Blog here. What it lacks in quality it makes up with... Well, nothing I guess.



  6. #6

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    [quote=CAspace;993015
    the pushy photographers trying to milk the guests of more money[/quote]

    This I really hate. I associate pushy peddlers with the 3rd world, not DL.
    Last edited by fkurucz; 10-06-2006 at 10:55 AM.

  7. #7

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    It's the little things that build the magic at DL, keep take away the little things and your left with JATP (Just another theme park) which I guess is all it really is according to the big sign when you come off the 5s outh bound onto Ball road which says (Theme Parks this way) the corporate culture has diluted the magic, we need more DL suits who really GET DL. Its not just another theme park, it is DISNEYLAND the BEST theme park in the world. Come on corporate executives, wake up to this fact!

    Gosh darn it we need some attitude from the suits that will reflect to the public, when these GUESTS come off the freeway we need some signs that shout with enthusiasm. Again it is the small little things that are creating the bigger picture, when corporate culture forgets or does not even know about the magic it is evident in there decision making processes.
    Last edited by CAspace; 10-04-2006 at 09:46 AM.

  8. #8

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    On one hand I agree with you. Leave the classics alone. Tom Sawyer's Island is magical and has fun memories.

    On the other hand, I disagree with you. I'm a Disney traditionalist too, but, this change to the Island is very welcome and not bad, rushed planning on the part of Burbank. Although Al Lutz' column certainly makes it clear that there is a scramble to make these changes.

    It's been quoted many times before, but it needs repeating. Walt Disney never wanted Disneyland to become stagnant. It should always be in a state of change and growing. Under the Eisner administration, that state of change was usually to something worse. I think it's different now and the much touted, John Lasseter, is certainly doing his best to make the place what it once was and put in effect changes that will restore the magic. The restored Tomorrowland Terrace is a shining example of that today. Reread Al's column and look how much money was secured to make changes for the better to both parks. Those are big numbers. In Eisner's day, they'd be lucky to get a $2 budget.

    I would like to see TSI themed to something different other than Pirates. I agree, it is a fad for a typical Bruckheimer film and will peter out in a few years from now. They should still stick to Americana for that Island. But, at this point, any change will be an improvement. The Island needs something that works for both adults and kids and fully entertains ... not just brings up fond memories of the past.

    The argument that Tom Sawyer is no longer relevant to today's society is a strong one. There is no doubt that my 2 young nephews have no clue who Tom Sawyer or Huck Finn are and they most likely wouldn't care if they did know the stories. Whether we like it or not, times have changed and what was once exciting in the 50's & 60's is no longer the rule. I honestly believe Walt would want to have Tom Sawyer's Island changed a long time ago.

    Walt's vision for family entertainment is as relevant today as it was when he was alive. He was a genius and knew what people wanted. I think we should honor his credo about Disneyland never being completed. These changes should be welcome. If I had my drothers, they should take California Adventure and make it into a museum park with all the great classic Disneyland rides that have gone the way of the dodo.

    "It's something that will never be finished. Something that I can keep developing...and adding to."—Walt Disney

    "Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world."
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  9. #9

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Growing up I had no idea who Tom Sawyer or Huck Fin was either, I still loved the attraction and heck I even learned who these people were from the attraction. Fixing up TSI and bringing the fun back makes sense, there used to be money generating shops on the island back in the day as well. I am certainly not saying Disneyland should just remain totally stagnant but please don't change something for the worse (Tarzans house, TommorowLand 98, vacation sales carts, mallification of Main Street and the rest of the park, etc. etc. etc) Again it is the little things and big things which make up the whole picture.

  10. #10

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    I have to completely agree with DizneeProfitEar above me. I don't like all the corporate movie tie-ins. I think that there should be some new creativity bringing in something we haven't ever seen before anywhere. An original idea of some sort... there are plenty out there.

    I also agree totally that the day they park stops updating and changing old things is the day Walt is really and truly dead. The fact that the Imagineers are continually tinkering and updating and adding and removing things that don't work proves that the spirit of Walt is still alive. That's what he did. If something didn't work, he nixed it and put in something new. Even if it was a favorite. Phantom Boats, the Hover things I can't remember the name of right now that were where Space Mt is now, and others.

    That said, I don't agree with a pirate theme. There are so many other themes that could be worked into TSI to update it and allow for new things without changing the overall theme of the lands it fits into. That would be, IMHO, the ideal direction to go. Find something new to go there that doesn't require rethemeing a large chunk of the park.

    The magic doesn't diminish with the removal of old rides or lands. Magic diminishes when we don't demand quality and story over all else. The true magic of Disneyland (and all of the parks really) is the fact that nothing is spared in the attention to detail. Every little nuance of lighting, texture, sound and even smell is carefully thought out and lovingly executed. That is the magic. The love that goes into it. If new rides and attractions and shows are brought to life with that same love, then the magic flows still. Change at DL is not to be feared. It should be expected and welcomed even. What you should fear is the failure of the process that brings change to DL. A lack of love.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  11. #11

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    I'mpretty sure Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln is returning in 2007, thats what i I read somewhere, can anyone confirm this?
    " bring me that horizon"
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  12. #12

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    "......The true magic of Disneyland (and all of the parks really) nothing is spared in the attention to detail. Every little nuance of lighting, texture, sound and even smell is carefully thought out and lovingly executed. That is the magic......."
    If everything was done in that manner there would be a lot less to rant about.
    ODV placements and decisions very much NEED to take into consideration the attention to detail, (They don't). While I am thrilled that Tommorow Land Terrace is back with some of the old school flavor (bravo) I would have to say that the recently installed Lighting fixtures (which are always on day or night by the way) do not cut it, the lighting in that area at night is terrible. It went from being too dark to now feeling like you are at a football stadium or a super bright savon drugstore. I am not just talking about Tom Sawyer here or the changes to POTC, I am talking about the little things that are being over looked and it it this mindset that it affecting the decision making processes. We need to get some creative executives like John L into the DL management staff, John can only do so much, (running Pixar, Running Disney animation, Overseeing WDI, Toy Story 3 etc. etc. etc. etc.) We need more John L's.
    Last edited by CAspace; 10-04-2006 at 10:28 AM.

  13. #13

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Agreed... more John L's would be a welcome thing. People who understand that attention to detail and have a love of what they do. Not enough of them in the management areas of Disney right now. Though John is a good start.

    I haven't yet seen the TLT yet... but lighting is so incredibly important. It can really set a mood faster than just about anything else. Sad that they have opted for the Savon Drugstore look.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by barfownz View Post
    I'm wish you man. I dislike all this priate crap going on in the resort. Its just a fad and when this fad is gone, Disney will be sorry!
    My wife and I were talking about this lastnight. Our thought is 'Why are Pirates taking over?" I mean there is ONE Dumbo attraction in Fantasyland - not Dumbo everywhere. One Carousel - not Carousel horses all over the place.

    So, why do they think it necessary to make Pirates of the Tom Sawyers Island?" They have the Caribbean - isn't that enough?

  15. #15

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    Re: Suits keep taking away the little things, perhaps I should not renew PAP (A rant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyland Daddy View Post
    My wife and I were talking about this lastnight. Our thought is 'Why are Pirates taking over?" I mean there is ONE Dumbo attraction in Fantasyland - not Dumbo everywhere. One Carousel - not Carousel horses all over the place.

    So, why do they think it necessary to make Pirates of the Tom Sawyers Island?" They have the Caribbean - isn't that enough?
    The reason IMHO, the suits have taken over, the imaginations have been replaced by powerpoints and excell spreadsheets. Innovation has gone the way of capitalization at the expense of imagination.

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