View Poll Results: What do you think?

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  1. #1

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    Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    Inspired from various chats on the boards and infused with some my ideas.

    LIBERTY SQUARE/ COLONIAL CORNER:

    *Someone mentioned perhaps having a LS in Frontierland's Festival Arena. I now think this is a really neat idea. First off, I'd like to see a great comedy western stunt show in the Arena before it's demoed for this new land. Patch of Heaven & BTR are relocated (read further for more details). The entrances into this area will be the same. Similar look and feel to 1700s (ala MK's LS) with Liberty Bell in the center. Perhaps statues of famous people in this time period could be appropiate: Ben Franklin, Paul Revere, Sam Adams, Louis & Clark, etc. Guests will not be able to see the trains pass by. There will be shops parallel to the tracks facing LS, BUT I'm proposing a new Grand Canyon section for the trains. (Grand Circle Tour Modifications LINK: ( http://www.micechat.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=64 )

    *EAST SIDE will mainly house a new attraction building for HALL OF PRESIDENTS. This will be the new home for Mr. Lincoln. He is joined by other presidents, BUT of that time period, instead of MK's version of having ALL the presidents. No stereo headphones here, they'll remain with the Main Street Opera House. I think you can get the idea for this attraction already. Probably next to this attraction will be the tavern (the main restaurant for this land).

    *WEST SIDE will house the E-ticket SLEEPY HOLLOW attraction. I'm not entirely sure how the facade would look. But it'd be neat to cross a covered bridge into the queue (ala Critter Country's Pooh). Probably queue through a forest and then inside the Van Tassel home. Here you hear the songs and stories of the town's legend. From inside, you go "out" into the barn loading area. Basically your inside themed as a nighttime outdoors. Take a nighttime stroll through Sleepy Hollow, if you can.

    I figured ride a dark horse carriage similar to a Doombuggy. A single AA horse in front pulls you along. When it's time, you spot the headless horseman and speed through. When your carriage spins around, you actually SEE the horseman on his horse charging at you. Swinging his blade and you spin back to your regular forward position.

    I've read this description before, but not practically yet. I think I figured something out. The horse AA that pulls the guests behind yours pops a horseman AA out from its back. Then this horseman & horse AA threatens YOU. As this is happening, YOUR horse pops up its horseman and threatens the guests that are ahead of your vehicle. I hope that made some sense. This might actually practically, physically, and technically be do-able.

    Of course there will be other effects like wind, water, fire, etc. But I was more focused on the headless horseman and horse AA.

    *Perhaps a pathway could start somewhere in this land and travel up and over the train tracks and slope down to Toontown for some easy access.

    FRONTIERLAND:

    *Patch of Heaven & BTR perhaps relocated to where the remains of Nature's Wonderland's pond is now. I'm rejecting this area for the previous Columbia dry dock. I think 1 dry dock for Columbia & Mark Twain is fine.

    *Rebuild Cascade Peak with a darkride attraction inside. I had 2 ideas.

    1) Guests are transported on Windwagons as "deputies" to the greatest American Folklore characters who join forces to fight crimes (ala Justice League). Situations include classic western crimes (like seen in "A Cowboy Needs a Horse").

    2) Guests board wooden barrels (GPS trackless vehicles) and travel with Woody and Friends to catch the bad guys.

    3) OR put Woody characters in with the first idea...

    MAIN STREET OPERA HOUSE PRESENTS:

    AMERICAN DREAMS/JOURNEY/ADVENTURE. Similar to EPCOT's American Journey (I'm sorry to say I didn't see this show, my family was more interested in rides). Mark Twain is more appropiate in this time period I think moreso than with Ben Franklin. Thomas Edison, Charles Dickens, Alexander Graham Bell, Jules Verne, and HG Wells. They talk about what they have contributed to the world and encourage the audience that they can do the same if they just believe and live life to the fullest. With their imagination and creativity, they can make anything possible. Mark Twain and Charles Dicken's writings create timeless tales. Jules Verne and HG Wells thoughts of future and technology. Thomas Edison and AGB through their inventions (light bulb & phone). These AA's stories come to life on stage through practical sets, AAs, SFX, and the pepper's ghost technology used in Knott's Berry Farm's MYSTERY LODGE and Universal's GHOSTBUSTERS. The stereo headphones will continue to be used here to its fullest effect better than with Lincoln. The queue will be related to these people. And I hope to have the walking AA tech used in EPCOT's show here.

    "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally!" -Back to the Future

    "With this place, I wanted to give them something real, something that wasn't an illusion, something they could see and touch. An aim devoid of merit."
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  2. #2

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    For LS, your ideas sound great, but there's just not enough room for what you're suggesting in that area. Perhaps in another park?

    Why get rid of the pond? It's one of the few very aestically pleasing and relaxing spots left! It could be integrated with your idea for the folklore ride...it could be very much like Nature's Wonderland, but with the American heros in it as well. The vehicles could be trains, and weave all over Frontierland in all the little gaps here and there.

    NO Woody ride. We're getting Midway Mania, and integrating what I said above, one would already have an amazing E-ticket involving American heros. No overkill.

    The AMERICAN DREAMS sounds awesome! If Lincoln wouldn't be moved into the Hall of Presidents, he could he remain in the Opera House along with all those other amazing individuals from history. And possibly Walt could wrap things up at the end...

  3. #3

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    I'd have Liberty Square replace Critter Country as a logical extension of Frontierland. I would then put Discovery Bay in the Big Thunder Ranch area. The reasoning is that this fits more closely with the original design of Frontierland. Discovery Bay would be more west and would represent San Francisco and the West Coast. Liberty Square would be eastern Frontierland and would represent the east coast. New Orleans Square would be in the middle. I would improve the theme of the entire Frontierland realm and strengthen the New Mexico area to more accurately represent the Gadsden purchase of 1853. This means no welded steel tubes in Rancho del Zocalo and proper period lighting!!!

    I'd also bring back the Golden Horseshoe Review. Disneyland *needs* hot chicks and saucy entertainment. Unless you're willing to admit we're more stuffy than those 1950 blokes.

  4. #4

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    filmfreak11, You always have the most creative ideas out there. I have to say I love the Sleepy Hollow themed ride. I think it would do well in that back area. I know that Disney is using that to put Santa and other "special" events there, but I would love to see that put under ground. Santa should be in Fantasyland, maybe near IASW. The current Fantasia Gardens would work with a little modification. I just believe that Santa fits the fantasy theme better than the frontier.

    I also think you are on the right track with some kind of show for Mr. Lincoln on Main Street. The American Adventure would not fit on Main Street since they use so many sets in that one. I would not mind a whole new show, maybe less extravagant, but more entertaining than a history lesson. I just think that people come to Disneyland to have fun. History unfortunately does not inspire young people as it once did. I think with a bigger dose of sugar, then the "medicine" of some history would work. But that sugar needs to be fun. We need to laugh. Also I believe that with the computers of today, there needs to be variety. It should not be the same show every time. The audience should have some say in the outcome of the show too. Carry over the idea of American Idol. Have the audience vote on the AA performers as to who was the most entertaining. Make it a whole new and different experience than the American Adventure.

    As to Liberty Square, I have to vote against it. I hate to say that LS is just boring at WDW. It does not have the spark of fun that New Orleans has, or even the old West. It was conceived as a setting for the Hall of Presidents. While I am a history lover, I have to acknowledge that HOP is far from a hit at WDW. It only runs part of the day because of so few guests. Again, people come to Disneyland to be entertained. Originally Mr. Lincoln was a display of the latest technology in Animatronics. Now that is passť. It no longer produces the amazement that it did in 1964. To bring it back it really has to have some state of the art display of what animatronics can do or be amusing in some way.
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  5. #5

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    For LS, your ideas sound great, but there's just not enough room for what you're suggesting in that area. Perhaps in another park?

    Why get rid of the pond? It's one of the few very aestically pleasing and relaxing spots left! It could be integrated with your idea for the folklore ride...it could be very much like Nature's Wonderland, but with the American heros in it as well. The vehicles could be trains, and weave all over Frontierland in all the little gaps here and there.

    NO Woody ride. We're getting Midway Mania, and integrating what I said above, one would already have an amazing E-ticket involving American heros. No overkill.

    The AMERICAN DREAMS sounds awesome! If Lincoln wouldn't be moved into the Hall of Presidents, he could he remain in the Opera House along with all those other amazing individuals from history. And possibly Walt could wrap things up at the end...
    Reason I think LS sounds interesting in the arena is because it continues the American "frontier" theme. Main Street represents the early 1900s. Frontierland represents the 1800s. Liberty Square the 1700s. Critter Country and NOS probably 16-1700? So I felt it kinda felt like a good thematic continution.

    I also like the quietness of Big Thunder Trail and the remains of Nature's Wonderland. But yet another train ride? At night, the area isn't really well lit, so I figured this idea might spice it up a bit. There was a Disney animated short that featured "windwagons" and thought that was a good and imaginative thing to have. I have to agree about Woody, I know how much of a protest there is for "Woody's Roundup" and him in Midway Mania. I was just throwing it out there to see more "guest reaction" .

    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    I'd have Liberty Square replace Critter Country as a logical extension of Frontierland. I would then put Discovery Bay in the Big Thunder Ranch area. The reasoning is that this fits more closely with the original design of Frontierland. Discovery Bay would be more west and would represent San Francisco and the West Coast. Liberty Square would be eastern Frontierland and would represent the east coast. New Orleans Square would be in the middle. I would improve the theme of the entire Frontierland realm and strengthen the New Mexico area to more accurately represent the Gadsden purchase of 1853. This means no welded steel tubes in Rancho del Zocalo and proper period lighting!!!

    I'd also bring back the Golden Horseshoe Review.
    I remember the Discovery Bay plans and feel more strongly it could be placed in an expansion of DCA. Plus, in DCA, there could be more space & there's a SF area in the park .

    The Mexican and Native American themeing I think would go nicely in a new expansion for DCA. The GHR would be nice to have back.

    Splash Mountain is already in CC. How would SM fit with LS? Also, I think you may have gotten west and east mixed up unless I'm reading your post incorrectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by JiminyCricketFan View Post
    filmfreak11, You always have the most creative ideas out there.

    I know that Disney is using that to put Santa and other "special" events there, but I would love to see that put under ground. Santa should be in Fantasyland, maybe near IASW. The current Fantasia Gardens would work with a little modification. I just believe that Santa fits the fantasy theme better than the frontier.

    I also think you are on the right track with some kind of show for Mr. Lincoln on Main Street. The American Adventure would not fit on Main Street since they use so many sets in that one. I would not mind a whole new show, maybe less extravagant, but more entertaining than a history lesson. I just think that people come to Disneyland to have fun. History unfortunately does not inspire young people as it once did. I think with a bigger dose of sugar, then the "medicine" of some history would work. But that sugar needs to be fun. We need to laugh. Also I believe that with the computers of today, there needs to be variety. Make it a whole new and different experience than the American Adventure.

    As to Liberty Square, I have to vote against it. I hate to say that LS is just boring at WDW. It does not have the spark of fun that New Orleans has, or even the old West. It was conceived as a setting for the Hall of Presidents. While I am a history lover, I have to acknowledge that HOP is far from a hit at WDW. It only runs part of the day because of so few guests. Again, people come to Disneyland to be entertained. Originally Mr. Lincoln was a display of the latest technology in Animatronics. Now that is passť. It no longer produces the amazement that it did in 1964. To bring it back it really has to have some state of the art display of what animatronics can do or be amusing in some way.
    Thank you very much, it's very encouraging to read that

    I agree about Santa in Fantasyland and then keep the reindeer in Frontierland. The MBC suggestion for Santa would be nice. I was also thinking using the Skyway station. Redo the hillside to be more accessible.

    I didn't mean for an exact copy of American Journey. I was giving an example of the inspiration for readers to get an idea of what the vision is. It wouldn't just be AAs talking to each other. For example, Jules Verne & HG Wells' writings come to life on stage. Same thing with Hall of Presidents, the action comes alive on stage. So it's like a, I think I'm using the right term, Marc Davis style AA show.

    I also agreed LS seemed a bit of a bore on my WDW visit. They just need to add some more energy and atmosphere. I agree about HOP. But I really think it could be improved with more effects and such. Fans have always been complaining about Lincoln and how he doesn't really fit in MS. So that's why I went through with this idea to hopefully satisfy the majority. And yes, new AA tech would be nice.

    Thanks everyone for comments! I appreciate them.

    "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally!" -Back to the Future

    "With this place, I wanted to give them something real, something that wasn't an illusion, something they could see and touch. An aim devoid of merit."
    -Jurassic Park

  6. #6

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    I realized I got east and west mixed up right after my post. I was just going more by the original layout hints of New Orleans and New Mexico than actual compass directions. It still works thematically, even if it's not true to the compass.

  7. #7

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    I've been reading about WestCOT recently and learned more about it. I think perhaps this "Liberty Square" themeing should go to this park and perhaps Festival Arena for WRE...

    "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally!" -Back to the Future

    "With this place, I wanted to give them something real, something that wasn't an illusion, something they could see and touch. An aim devoid of merit."
    -Jurassic Park

  8. #8

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by filmfreak11 View Post
    I've been reading about WestCOT recently and learned more about it. I think perhaps this "Liberty Square" themeing should go to this park and perhaps Festival Arena for WRE...
    "Happiness is a state of mind...." Walt Disney


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  9. #9

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    Personally, I think a rough edge-of-the-wilderness Liberty Square would be the perfect replacement for Frontierland.

    Let's face it, cowboy culture isn't popular anymore. However, while America was most centered around the original colonial towns, explorers were heading west and mapping out our whole end of the US. Frontierland, IMO, should be re-themed to be one of their settlements. It would basically represent the west before it was found and became what we knew it.

    It would also be a nice nod and wink back to the original WDW Liberty Square on the east coast which resembles the east coast colonies.

  10. #10

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    Personally, I think a rough edge-of-the-wilderness Liberty Square would be the perfect replacement for Frontierland.

    Let's face it, cowboy culture isn't popular anymore. However, while America was most centered around the original colonial towns, explorers were heading west and mapping out our whole end of the US. Frontierland, IMO, should be re-themed to be one of their settlements. It would basically represent the west before it was found and became what we knew it.

    It would also be a nice nod and wink back to the original WDW Liberty Square on the east coast which resembles the east coast colonies.
    Cowboy culture was never what Frontierland was about. It was hard core action, violence, and sex during the American expansion period. The recent Zorro movies were popular, and the darker westerns still rake in box office cash. All Disney needs to do is bring back the slaughtered settler, the can can girls, and get Zorro to work the New Mexico section again. They could even have giant animatronic bears attacking and eating the indian camp. Excitment could lurk around every corner. Liberty Square would make a nice area, but it would be hard to imagine it as exciting a theme as the frontier.

  11. #11

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    The West early influence was American Indians, Explorers, Trappers, Cowboys, and Spanish (California - Californios), Miners...We should keep these in frontierland.
    "Happiness is a state of mind...." Walt Disney


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  12. #12

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    Cowboy culture was never what Frontierland was about. It was hard core action, violence, and sex during the American expansion period. The recent Zorro movies were popular, and the darker westerns still rake in box office cash. All Disney needs to do is bring back the slaughtered settler, the can can girls, and get Zorro to work the New Mexico section again. They could even have giant animatronic bears attacking and eating the indian camp. Excitment could lurk around every corner. Liberty Square would make a nice area, but it would be hard to imagine it as exciting a theme as the frontier.
    Except Zorro and bandits and can-can girls and all that stuff came after the area had been settled. I'm talking about the original explorations.

    Think less Zorro, and more Lewis & Clark and you have the right idea. The west is largely unexplored territory, Indians are more guides to the land than enemies (this would also help smooth over PC issues), "back home" is the colonies (i.e. Liberty Square in Orlando.)

    Obviously you don't call it Liberty Square, but you give it a name with passing reference (although I can't think of one at the moment that doesn't sound too corny) so that people who have been to both resorts will see one, then see the other and say "oh, I get it now."
    Last edited by MickeyMania; 12-20-2006 at 05:08 PM.

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    Making a second post to point out that the current story of Frontierland (cow pokes, gold rush, defending the settlement from Indians, etc) is pretty much now known, taught, and accepted by the great majority of Americans.

    When I wrote "Lewis and Clark" above, I almost accidentally wrote "Lois and Clark" (oops!) and that was just out of natural habit. There's simply, IMO, not as much education about the purchase and explorations of the western frontier as much as there was the taming and settling of it.

    So, by making a theme change like this, you'd be teaching something new at Disneyland again, and it's a story that doesn't paint Native Americans in a bad light and it's based on history. And a lot of people here have wanted Disneyland to tell a new story again. And with the island becoming a scurvy pirate paradise, it all "clicks."

    The minor exception is Big Thunder, since it's background story relates to the whole mining for riches thing. However, steam locomotives were starting to appear in America in their earliest forms around that time, so within Disney standards (where a "swiss mountain" has holes in the side) it's not terribly inaccurate.

  14. #14

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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMania View Post
    ...give it a name with passing reference (although I can't think of one at the moment that doesn't sound too corny) so that people who have been to both resorts will see one, then see the other and say "oh, I get it now."
    I was thinking "Colonial Corner", but I don't know.

    "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally!" -Back to the Future

    "With this place, I wanted to give them something real, something that wasn't an illusion, something they could see and touch. An aim devoid of merit."
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    Re: Liberty Square, Mr. Lincoln, Sleepy Hollow, & American Adventure/Dreams Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by filmfreak11 View Post
    I was thinking "Colonial Corner", but I don't know.
    It's too bad that Disney has already tied the word "Discoveryland" to arcane fictions. It would fit the area perfectly and more literally.

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