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  1. #1

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    What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    From the highest heights of the Matterhorn to the deepest depths of the ocean, the Northeast quadrant of Disneyland has always been a place of the remote and the mysterious. Guests have been able to explore these regions and discover everything from sea serpents to abominable snowmen to the lost continent of Atlantis. So, the obvious solution to the problem of the Northeast quadrant having no discernible theme is to create a fifth realm: Discoveryland.

    The Matterhorn never fully belonged to Fantasyland, and the Submarine Voyage never fully belonged to Tomorrowland. But, in Discoveryland, these two attractions can fully embrace the core themes both share. And, an entire community of explorers can find a home here amongst the mountains and seas of the world.

    Imagine that the passages on either side of the Matterhorn depict Andean and Himalayan settings while the North side that connects to Fantasyland remains Alpine. Imagine also a new and fantastical submarine voyage sans Pixar.

    The former Fantasyland Autopia and Motor Boat Cruise have real estate available for the development of new attractions and other features. The monorail beam and PeopleMover guideway can be concealed. The main entrance from Central Plaza can appear more mountainous. And, there can even be multiple levels of walkways that might make better use of the vertical space in the area.

    The portal between Fantasyland and Discoveryland might, itself, have multiple levels. For example, Wonderland might be accessible by a rabbit hole, whereas the parade route remains on level ground. Crevasses might appear here and there, while the glaciers that formed the Matterhorn's hook and glacial pool may also be depicted along with some volcanic activity for interesting juxtapositions between fire and ice. And, the portal between Discoveryland and Tomorrowland is the perfect place for Tony Baxter's favorite dirigible, the Hyperion, to be anchored in order to form an appropriate transition and a visual barrier.

    Think "Around the World in 80 Days", "In Search of the Castaways", and "The Island at the Top of the World". Literature is full of stories about exploration and discoveries in remote and mysterious places. So, to Frontierland and Tomorrowland and Adventureland and Fantasyland, I advocate the addition of Discoveryland as the fifth and final realm.

  2. #2

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    The Matterhorn never fully belonged to Fantasyland, and the Submarine Voyage never fully belonged to Tomorrowland. But, in Discoveryland, these two attractions can fully embrace the core themes both share. And, an entire community of explorers can find a home here amongst the mountains and seas of the world.
    I love your idea but remember, for that time Submarines were pretty innovative so for that time it was fully themed to Tomorowland.
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  3. #3

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    I love the idea of a Discoveryland, and Matterhorn never did quite fit in as a Fantasyland resident. The Subs fit well in Tomorrowland on its inception, but became less and less relevant as technological progress left the ride behind, so to speak.
    Failing to meet expectations, DCA has put Disneyland into "Safe" Mode, in my humble opinion; so I'm afraid all we are going to see for awhile to come is more movie-tie-in rides/refurbishments. I hope I'm wrong. Great essay, by the way.

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    From the highest heights of the Matterhorn to the deepest depths of the ocean, the Northeast quadrant of Disneyland has always been a place of the remote and the mysterious. Guests have been able to explore these regions and discover everything from sea serpents to abominable snowmen to the lost continent of Atlantis. So, the obvious solution to the problem of the Northeast quadrant having no discernible theme is to create a fifth realm: Discoveryland.

    The Matterhorn never fully belonged to Fantasyland, and the Submarine Voyage never fully belonged to Tomorrowland. But, in Discoveryland, these two attractions can fully embrace the core themes both share. And, an entire community of explorers can find a home here amongst the mountains and seas of the world.

    Imagine that the passages on either side of the Matterhorn depict Andean and Himalayan settings while the North side that connects to Fantasyland remains Alpine. Imagine also a new and fantastical submarine voyage sans Pixar.

    The former Fantasyland Autopia and Motor Boat Cruise have real estate available for the development of new attractions and other features. The monorail beam and PeopleMover guideway can be concealed. The main entrance from Central Plaza can appear more mountainous. And, there can even be multiple levels of walkways that might make better use of the vertical space in the area.

    The portal between Fantasyland and Discoveryland might, itself, have multiple levels. For example, Wonderland might be accessible by a rabbit hole, whereas the parade route remains on level ground. Crevasses might appear here and there, while the glaciers that formed the Matterhorn's hook and glacial pool may also be depicted along with some volcanic activity for interesting juxtapositions between fire and ice. And, the portal between Discoveryland and Tomorrowland is the perfect place for Tony Baxter's favorite dirigible, the Hyperion, to be anchored in order to form an appropriate transition and a visual barrier.

    Think "Around the World in 80 Days", "In Search of the Castaways", and "The Island at the Top of the World". Literature is full of stories about exploration and discoveries in remote and mysterious places. So, to Frontierland and Tomorrowland and Adventureland and Fantasyland, I advocate the addition of Discoveryland as the fifth and final realm.
    Very interesting. A 'Discoveryland' may be something to ponder......

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    I actually like this one... I haven't posted on an idea before but here goes... I like it! It really fits the mood of the subs, the matterhorn, and even Autopia very well! Even Critter Country, Adventure Land, and Toon Town only have 2 attractions while this would have three, plus you would also have the space of the motorboat cruise and the autopia track to think about... it seems interesting...

    I don't like the multi-level idea as it is VERY developed land and would would need to be worked out A LOT to get all of the ideas to co-exist but it seems plausible. As to the name itself, it fits very well with Paris already sporting the name very well!

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    We know more about outer space than we do our own oceans. There's a heck of a lot we haven't discovered in "liquid space" yet. Understanding what fish are saying could be figured out in the future, too...

    I think the attractions are in their proper areas. Consider it a "transitional" area.

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    somemade a discoveryland for a disney park in rollercoaster tycoon 3. It looked like tommorowland.
    Just thought I would put that out there.
    O ya and at one time, Disneyland had the largest maritime fleet of submarines!

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rtoups View Post
    somemade a discoveryland for a disney park in rollercoaster tycoon 3. It looked like tommorowland.
    Just thought I would put that out there.
    O ya and at one time, Disneyland had the largest maritime fleet of submarines!
    ...well, they never submerged, so the "sub" part isn't really accurate, and they were never in a marine (salt water) environment, so the "marine" thing doesn't really fit, either...the "maritime" part refers to a direct relation to the sea, which doesn't really apply here...I'm sure at one time Disney had the largest fleet of subs that do not work--unless you count the Soviet Union... I know, I know...word-nazi, right?

  9. #9

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    The future promises more free time and more time to explore. Turning the corner from the expo part of Tomorrowland and seeing the Monorail circling the Matterhorn and gliding over the subs sends a strong message about the future. Even the international feel of Matterhorn and Small World continue the future expo feel of Tomorrowland. I fear Discoveryland would force contemporary themes, whereas maintaining a future theme would give more freedom in enhancing the rides. However, much like New Orlean Square is part of Frontierland, I think a Discovery Square could be part of Frontierland.

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    Hey Prag, weren't you the one that would rather ignore a seperate Critter Country and New Orleans Square and call it all Frontierland? Why the sudden decision to add a new theme to an area that doesn't really need one?

    I actually like the idea of "Discovery" if they were to add a name to that area, but I think there's too many lands as it is.

    I agree with Lore, that a new theme would force some unappropriate attractions just to make the theme work.


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  11. #11

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    While I have always found the Matterhorn/Sub-land concept interesting, I have my doubts. I don't think the land is really there to fully develop proper transitions and attractions.

  12. #12

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    But for the sake of argument, what if this area does become a Discoveryland or some sort of futuristic DiscoveryBay? What new attractions would you want to see in this area?

    Here's a visual to help get a better scope of how much space this would occupy. For simplicity's sake, I allowed this new land of Discovery to already include Ariel's Grotto, Matterhorn Bobsleds, Submarine Voyage, Monorail Station, and the Autopia.

    I've included the grotto as well as that front walkway that serves as a parade route to be an unofficial entryway to the new land. The opposite side of Tomorrowland Terrace can get a new exterior to match that side a bit better.




    Of course, I'm not really saying we SHOULD go this route, but it's fun to talk about.
    Last edited by Coheteboy; 05-30-2007 at 01:59 PM.


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  13. #13

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    But for the sake of argument, what if this area does become a Discoveryland or some sort of futuristic DiscoveryBay? What new attractions would you want to see in this area?

    Here's a visual to help get a better scope of how much space this would occupy. For simplicity's sake, I allowed this new land of Discovery to already include Ariel's Grotto, Matterhorn Bobsleds, Submarine Voyage, Monorail Station, and the Autopia.

    I've included the grotto as well as that front walkway that serves as a parade route to be an unofficial entryway to the new land. The opposite side of Tomorrowland Terrace can get a new exterior to match that side a bit better.




    Of course, I'm not really saying we SHOULD go this route, but it's fun to talk about.
    I love your idea! The area could serve as an entrance, think of it, Matterhorn straight in front of you and signs to the side of the parade route!
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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Jr. View Post
    I love your idea! The area could serve as an entrance, think of it, Matterhorn straight in front of you and signs to the side of the parade route!

    LOL, thanks, but it was pragmaticidealist who came up with this thread. I'm just going along with it (for once).


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  15. #15

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    Re: What Do Bobsleds and Submarines Have in Common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyland Daddy View Post
    Very interesting. A 'Discoveryland' may be something to ponder......
    Yes, I agree completely that this is something that has great merit and allows for use of open real estate in the park. Great idea PragmaticIdealist, keep those wheels a turning.
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