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  1. #1

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    How plausible is this...

    OK. Roll back the calendar a few years. Take any person in the USA and imagine having this conversation with them:

    YOU: We'd like your opinion of a few improvements to Disneyland.
    THEM: OK, shoot.
    YOU: Let's start with Tommorowland. We have this skyway that lets people soar over the park and adds an element of movement to the land.
    THEM: Rip it out.
    YOU: OK. We'd like to update the Submarine Voyage.
    THEM: Rip it out.
    YOU: Uh... OK. The People Mover is a little dated, how can we improve that?
    THEM: Rip it out.
    YOU: ...and the Rocket Jets. They're way up high and give a real thrill of height and motion.
    THEM: Replace them with an ugly and incomprehensible kenetic sculpture that plays music.
    YOU: You're not leaving much to do in Tommorowland.
    THEM: OK, then put the rocket thingies on the ground somewhere. Right in the middle of the entrance would be good. Then paint the whole place brown and plant cabbages.
    YOU: Let's move on to another land. How about Fantasyland. We're doing some rearranging. What should we do with the pirate ship restaurant?
    THEM: Rip it out.
    YOU: Maybe we should move on. Adventureland. The Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse is a little dated. Any suggestions?
    THEM: Rip it...
    YOU: STOP! We just want to freshen it up a little.
    THEM: OK, theme it to a newer movie.
    YOU: We have plans to re-make Swiss Family Robinson.
    THEM: Yeah, well, I'll believe it when I see it.
    YOU: Frontierland?
    THEM: Get rid of those bears. Nobody likes those bears! Nobody likes that island place either. Just quit messing with it. Let it fall apart for all I care.
    YOU: OK. Well thank you for your help. We'll begin demolition soon. Any other suggestions?
    THEM: Only one. As long as we're ripping out attractions and letting others fall into disrepair, let's raise admission prices!

    Think the above conversation is implausible?
    "Yesterday, a man walked up to me and said, 'Isn't it a shame that Walt Disney couldn't be here to see this?' and I said, "He did see this, that's why it's here."
    -Art Linkletter July 17, 2005-


    When you wish upon a star your dreams come true.


  2. #2

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    HILARIOUS! I only disagree with

    ...and the Rocket Jets. They're way up high and give a real thrill of height and motion.

    The reason they were removed was because of problems with the system. they were constantly breaking down and costing them money. And it was a little sad because youd get going fast, only to have to slow waaaaay down for the corners. I think it was a good move. I agree with everything else
    "Pain is temporary, Film is Forever..."

    http://www.youtube.com/user/DisneyDude




  3. #3

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyDude2006 View Post
    HILARIOUS! I only disagree with

    ...and the Rocket Jets. They're way up high and give a real thrill of height and motion.

    The reason they were removed was because of problems with the system. they were constantly breaking down and costing them money. And it was a little sad because youd get going fast, only to have to slow waaaaay down for the corners. I think it was a good move. I agree with everything else
    Thank you. However, I believe you are thinking of the Rocket Rods... the ill-fated replacement for the People Mover. My referrence was to the Rocket Jets... the twirling rocket ride high in the air above the People Mover platform
    "Yesterday, a man walked up to me and said, 'Isn't it a shame that Walt Disney couldn't be here to see this?' and I said, "He did see this, that's why it's here."
    -Art Linkletter July 17, 2005-


    When you wish upon a star your dreams come true.


  4. #4

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    Wow, i must be that tired, my bad. OK , now i TOTALLY agree with what you say
    "Pain is temporary, Film is Forever..."

    http://www.youtube.com/user/DisneyDude




  5. #5

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    Blasphemy! It will never happen! Oh wait...
    -Jack
    Doc Brown had 2 Deloreans!

  6. #6

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    I got a laugh out of this...thanks.

    Of course the decisions that "they" made in quick succession in your scenario were made over several decades in real life. I want the Skull Island Restaurant back!!!!
    Last edited by Goofy Daddy; 12-24-2006 at 04:33 AM. Reason: Spelling

  7. #7

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    Just think, at this rate, the Gumball Rally will be an hour event within the next 10 years.
    Stalking is when two people go for a long romantic walk together but only one of them knows about it.

  8. #8

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    They ought to fire anyone who would rip out those attractions.

    Or give them a huge bonus.


    This has been a Filmways presentation dahling.

  9. #9

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    And the other one I still don't get:

    Epcot has two buildings that house Innoventions. We would like to bring Innoventions to California. There's plenty of spare space, upstairs and down, around Pizza Port and the 3D theater, but we think having it spin around would be fun. Unfortunately, the only building we have that spins is the one we use for America Sings. What do you think, rip it out?

  10. #10

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    Can you get the transcripts from the discussion of how to build a new park at the resort?

  11. #11

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    "Hmmm... we want an attraction that showcases technology and where it's going. We had a classic show that showcased not only technology to come, but how we got there as well. It features signiture Disney AAs and a great song by the Sherman bros. If we bring it back it will appease many a Disney-fan... but you're right. Grab Nathan Lane, cause we have some Innoventions to put in!
    “Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die.” ~ Mel Brooks



  12. #12

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Chaney View Post
    OK. Roll back the calendar a few years. Take any person in the USA and imagine having this conversation with them:

    YOU: We'd like your opinion of a few improvements to Disneyland.
    THEM: OK, shoot.
    YOU: Let's start with Tommorowland. We have this skyway that lets people soar over the park and adds an element of movement to the land.
    THEM: Rip it out.
    YOU: OK. We'd like to update the Submarine Voyage.
    THEM: Rip it out.
    YOU: Uh... OK. The People Mover is a little dated, how can we improve that?
    THEM: Rip it out.
    YOU: ...and the Rocket Jets. They're way up high and give a real thrill of height and motion.
    THEM: Replace them with an ugly and incomprehensible kenetic sculpture that plays music.
    YOU: You're not leaving much to do in Tommorowland.
    THEM: OK, then put the rocket thingies on the ground somewhere. Right in the middle of the entrance would be good. Then paint the whole place brown and plant cabbages.
    YOU: Let's move on to another land. How about Fantasyland. We're doing some rearranging. What should we do with the pirate ship restaurant?
    THEM: Rip it out.
    YOU: Maybe we should move on. Adventureland. The Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse is a little dated. Any suggestions?
    THEM: Rip it...
    YOU: STOP! We just want to freshen it up a little.
    THEM: OK, theme it to a newer movie.
    YOU: We have plans to re-make Swiss Family Robinson.
    THEM: Yeah, well, I'll believe it when I see it.
    YOU: Frontierland?
    THEM: Get rid of those bears. Nobody likes those bears! Nobody likes that island place either. Just quit messing with it. Let it fall apart for all I care.
    YOU: OK. Well thank you for your help. We'll begin demolition soon. Any other suggestions?
    THEM: Only one. As long as we're ripping out attractions and letting others fall into disrepair, let's raise admission prices!

    Think the above conversation is implausible?
    A tad too shallow of a delve. The skyway was causing more troubles than the eyesore was worth. Subs had a planned refurb but was cancled due to Atlantis failing and budgets being cut all around. Same with the PeopleMover. Nobody ripped it out, they changed it to the next level. The problem is that plussing costs money, and sponors pulled out. I too liked the rockets better on top, but I love the look of the orbitor. And as for TL 98, it had some great ideas, the big problem was budget slashing.

    Fantasyland needed to have something removed for it was growing incredibly crowded. So instead of looking at it in terms of ripping out the ship, they removed the ship while adding 2 dark rides and opening walkways. Not a bad trade off.

    Swiss Family Robbinson's treehouse was dead. Even as a kid I never wanted to check it out, and I had seen the film. The only bad things about Tarzan is the monsters inc-like statues frozen in time. The attraction is sort of doomed for modern adult audiences. People are incredibly lazy and don't want an attraction where the entire thing is a serries of stairs. At least it has little kids running through it now.

    I loved Country Bears as well, but once again it wasn't a rip it out mentality, it was more "where can we put Pooh." Pooh is a huge cash crop and the Disney heads thought a Pooh ride would bring in more people than an original aged attraction. They probably would have even been correct if they put in a decent attraction.

    If you want to boil down the problem with Disney into a simple phrase such as "rip it out," I think a more apt one is "cut the budget." Budget killed new subs, Rocket Rods, TL 98 as a whole, TSI, and Pooh. If things had been done the way the imagineers had planned with the full finacial support, I think many wouldn't mind these changes because they would have been upgrades instead of lemons.

    So a more appropriate conversation would be between a CEO and an imagineer. The imagineer would come up with exciting ways to plus some of the older and less popular attractions and the CEO would say "Sounds great, but cut the budget."

  13. #13

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    You: Let's build a second theme park, but let's make it really cool with a title like...um...Westcot, and it will have fantastic themeing, a ton of really cool rides, and...

    Them: Nah...We'd rather have a park about California in California with awe inspiring views of downtown Anaheim which would be full of off the shelf carnival rides. Then...when people don't show up, we'll tear down the gates and make it a really, really big shopping mall.

    Last edited by Mac Daddy; 12-24-2006 at 12:13 PM.

  14. #14

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    Professortango makes a lot of good points. My little imaginary conversation was overly simplistic, of course... and this subject has been done to death here. I was just feeling a little silly and creative. Part of the reason came after watching an online video of the park from the 60's and seeing so many attractions that no longer exist.

    I know there are many who were not sad that the Skyway went away. Even if it had been maintenence free, lot of people just didn't like the look of it. Fine. I do know that the San Diego Zoo operates a nearly identical skyway to this day. If they can keep it running, it would seem that Disney could too.

    I think a couple of important factors contributed to the changes at Disneyland. Budget cuts, of course. But, Disney has a pile o' dough and could have tossed a lot more Disneyland's way. Perhaps, when attractions failed or needed repair they realized that just as many people still came to the park whether the subs or people mover or space mountain was operating or not. What's the point in fixing them up if we're still filling the park and selling plenty of churros? To a corporate-type watching the bottom line, this makes a certain amount of sense.

    Also, somewhere along the line, the folks in charge decided they were running a "kiddie-land." New attractions were aimed at the very young. "But the kids love it" became the justification for changes. Outside of Fantasyland, Walt's vision for the park was a little more challenging.

    Perhaps I shouldn't have even broached the whole subject. As I said, it's been done to death already. I guess that my nostalgia for some classic Disneyland attractions made me nostagic for a classic MiceChat rant.

    Disneyland is actually looking pretty good these days... finally!
    "Yesterday, a man walked up to me and said, 'Isn't it a shame that Walt Disney couldn't be here to see this?' and I said, "He did see this, that's why it's here."
    -Art Linkletter July 17, 2005-


    When you wish upon a star your dreams come true.


  15. #15

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    Re: How plausible is this...

    While the conversation probably didn't happen that way, the results speak for themselves. Disneyland *had* lots of motion. Disneyland *had* lots of fun ways to get around the park (including speed ramps). Disneyland *had* more entertainment and it was more adult oriented. And most importantly, Disneyland never had empty shells of rides.

    Don't forget that both Tahitian Terrace and Golden Horseshoe are black right now. Space Stage is gone and name celebraties no longer perform anywhere in the park. I was happy to see a swing band return to Carnation Plaza.

    In Tomorrowland, the dramatic speed ramp up to Space Mountain is gone. The people mover is gone. The Rocket Jets and their exciting gantry lift elevator is gone. It's not just the rides themselves, but back in the day, getting to the ride was half the fun.

    In Frontierland the Rivers of America are in sad repair. The cascade peak and it's dramatic water falls is gone. The Mike Fink keel boats are gone. The mules and stage coaches are gone. All these things added motion and excitment to Frontierland. In hollywood terms, it looked like a hot set.

    In Fantasyland, a major water feature and quaint eatery is gone. Replaced by a cafeteria and some ugly ODV carts. On the good side, Fantasy is way better overall now, but it could use a water feature eatery.

    All over the park, the intelligence, class, and adult appeal is slipping away. ODV carts stand in front of closed eateries. Stores no longer carry unique merchandise and have been eating up attraction space. There's no longer an arcade for the kid and a store with interesting merchandise for the adult. The food choices have been slipping down hill since the 80's. It's like every store and eatery is run by the same person (and likely an accountant who would never actually buy or eat anything in the park).

    So yes, if you look at the park in 1969, you'll see more choices, more dramatic views, more adult friendly entertainment, more excitment, more history, more science, more water features, more discovered details, just more of everything good. If Disney was to install a temporal entry gate, I suspect 1969 would be the most crowded.

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