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  1. #31

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ExJungleSkipper95
    I guess some people would rather inconvenience thousands of people that are waiting for just that one person rather than be grateful that they can still experience the attraction in a different way.

    Why does every thread on these boards that dicusses wheelchair accessibility always end up with someone like you being a total jerk?
    Why does every thread on these boards that discuss wheelchair accessibility always end up with someone like you being a martyr and pointing out how horrible it is that they can't ride?


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  2. #32

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by cakvalasc View Post
    Why does every thread on these boards that discuss wheelchair accessibility always end up with someone like you being a martyr and pointing out how horrible it is that they can't ride?
    If you look at my posts, I NEVER said that. I actually like the idea of the video of the ride. It is just that a lot of people on these boards can be very insensitive (you being a perfect example of that) of what it is like to spend your life dealing with the obstacles faced when confined to wheelchair.

    Also, as insensitive as you are, I shouldn't be suprised that you didn't notice that it is not me who uses a wheelchair but my 10 year old daughter.
    <-------

  3. #33

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    My Father have been in a wheelchair for over 14 years so I understand completely, and I didn't mean you spcifically I ment anyone who in general that jumps onto the wagon of "You will never understand what I go through!"

    I am not insensitive and I probably understand more then you know, but it just gets tired to beat a dead horse on a subject that has been brought up so many times on this board.


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  4. #34

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    I guess It's just another thing in life that people who are "normal" will take for granted.... like dancing, walking up stairs, having two feet...

    All I'm saying is, I'm jealous and mad that I won't be able to ride the subs.. so please take the time time to appreciate it if you ARE able.


    To live would be an awfully big adventure.

  5. #35

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Missviolet View Post
    All I'm saying is, I'm jealous and mad that I won't be able to ride the subs.. so please take the time time to appreciate it if you ARE able.

    Exactly. Very well put!

  6. #36

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Do you think someone with a phobia of actually getting into the real sub could watch from the viewing room? I think that I could actually handle.

  7. #37

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer View Post
    First off, to Missviolet and everyone else who won't get to ride the subs, I am sorry!

    I am looking forward to seeing BOTH versions, and I presume I will get a chance to do it during Media Day, if not, I will "push" a friend into the viewing room

    But the capacity of the subs is already VERY low, expected around 1,000 to 1,200 per hour. They will only get 1,200 per hour if they run all 8 subs, and load and unload in about 3 minutes.

    Converting ONE sub to allow a lift would remove a LOT of the 40 seats in one of the subs, and also reduce the loading time, as they would want to "secure" the chair, similar to riding the tram or the public bus. That would add a few minutes to the load/unload time, and cut capacity probably in HALF!

    I think Disney has come up with a solution that addresses the problem, and allows capacity to remain about the same, while addressing those who cannot walk down the stairs.

    Also, as I understand it, they are planning to require that ALL folks, even those with Stair passes and Wheelchairs to wait in the Man Queue (and the expected long wait) until reaching the loading area, where folks will be able to get into the "Alternative" viewing room queue instead of queuing up for one of the Sub Loading Queues.

    I am sorry that life is not always totally fair, but if the ride had to be totally accessible, Disney would have never started the project.

    So I am glad they tried to address those who could not use the stairs and gave them another option.
    I agree Darkbeer, it's a good balance to serve everybody.

  8. #38

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by cakvalasc View Post
    My Father have been in a wheelchair for over 14 years so I understand completely, and I didn't mean you spcifically I ment anyone who in general that jumps onto the wagon of "You will never understand what I go through!"

    I am not insensitive and I probably understand more then you know, but it just gets tired to beat a dead horse on a subject that has been brought up so many times on this board.
    I'm sorry, I thought that you meant me. It is just that this a very sensitive subject for me.

    I just hope everyone here thinks twice before they see a disabled person and think "lucky them, they get special treatment" or "the nerve of them, I was here first".

  9. #39

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    It seems that there are a minority of people that abuse or misuse the system at DLR, which unfortunately puts a bad light on those who truly need the extra time and special access to enjoy their experience. Although there has been some heat generated here regarding the disabled, similiar discussions have taken place regarding rude AP holders, teens, and those who use flash photography on dark rides. It is hard sometimes to remember that ONE bad apple does not mean the whole bunch is bad.

    After reading all of this, I am SO proud of how DL is handling this situation. After all, they didn't have to provide ANY alternative to the sub ride. And having ALL riders wait in line together seems the fairest solution for everyone. Sort of like waiting in the que at Indy.

    I have visited DL with a wheelchair-bound person. It changed my outlook on the whole "preferred treatment" thing. I remember going on Thunder Mountain and being told we had to sit in the very back car, which I always avoid do to the rough ride. I guess that is where ALL disabled people are told to sit?? We were flung all over the place. I was concerned that my friend would actually get injured. All this to say, I found that it was not glamourous.

  10. #40

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Lots of diability issues on the forum right now, whew!

    As for the Subs, I'm going to take a wait and see attitude.

    If they did it right, as someone suggested with a motion simulator, I believe the alterantive version could be better than the actaul subs. I just hope it is not so much better that it generates a wait longer than the subs.

    I look forward to the alterantive version. The subs were just OK when they were available. I liked them, but they were just OK, nothing spectactular.

    All in all, I think since no one I know has ridden either new version yet (how could they, not done yet), I'll just wait and see. For me I've got bigger fish to fry (pardon the pun) right now than to worry about which version of the subs is better or which is acceptable. I'll wait and see.

    Just MHO, YMMV

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    Andy

  11. #41

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Friendly Mod Note: No matter the discussion, please do not post personal attacks against one-another. Not only does this degrade the conversation, but it's against MiceChat Rules and Regulations.
    -Monorail Man

  12. #42

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Andy, Goin2DL, etc.: Disney is going above and beyond by building the viewing room. They don't have to, but it's the right thing to do. To open the Nemo Subs with full access designed in properly, they'd have to practically rip the place apart and start from scratch.

    Cmash: I think they want to send everyone through the queue so you can socialize with each other while waiting in line, and then split up at the loading point: You go watch the video version while they ride the real, and your party can meet up with you at the exit around the same time.

    I can see the concerns of MissViolet, CrazyLegs, etc. But nobody deserves negative rep for voicing a valid concern about the rides at the park, this has been a concern since the Subs were first built - but that was the Sixties when they just ignored the problem, now we're a bit more enlightened about Disabled Access.

    People with severe problems are no longer just warehoused in a dark corner of the world and forgotten about, with the appropriate adaptive aids they can get out and around just like anyone else. This is a good thing.

    If I remember correctly, they used to allow people with "endurance problems" or partially restricted mobility (but not totally paralyzed) to be assisted into and out of the old Subs by one or two friends or family members - which most likely would carry over to the new Nemo Subs.

    They'll probably do the same thing they do on other rides in the park - restrict it to one person with mobility problems on the ride at a time, so they only have one person inside the show building that would need special assistance to evacuate.

    It would be fantastic if they could rig a simple "Bosun's Chair" lift or body harness to get people with simple mobility problems (no advanced support equipment like ventilators) in and out of the subs quickly and easily - but there's no such thing as "simple" when it comes to that kind of mechanical stuff. They would spend millions on it, and it would take 20 minutes to rig and move a person in each direction.

    Unless they spent $1 Million Plus to build a new "Handicapped Ready Sub" with an additional hatch to handle a special elevator lift, and another million or more for an "Offline Siding" docking area so the rest of the Subs can keep circulating normally through the ride (think the Siding at the new Space Mountain) they would totally cork up the ride throughput.

    And where do they put that Offline Siding? There's no room near the regular dock, and if they used the parking siding area everyone would have to get over there... There's another half-million for a drawbridge across the main-line track. See, this stuff adds up FAST.

    After all that money and effort, you could only get a half-dozen Handicapped people through the ride an hour, maximum - two or three per trip, two trips an hour, and all the load and unload time eats up the rest. Even if you fill up the 'extra seats' in the HC Sub from the regular queue before you send it through, that won't help the throughput numbers enough. The accountants could never justify spending the money as a retrofit.

    Sorry, but complex issues require long posts, especially when I don't want to spend another hour rewording and condensing it.

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  13. #43

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    Andy, Goin2DL, etc.: Disney is going above and beyond by building the viewing room. They don't have to, but it's the right thing to do. To open the Nemo Subs with full access designed in properly, they'd have to practically rip the place apart and start from scratch.

    --<< Bruce >>--
    I actually really like the viewing room idea, I never said that I had a problem with what Disney was doing.

  14. #44

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    Re: Subs with disabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    Andy, Goin2DL, etc.: Disney is going above and beyond by building the viewing room. They don't have to, but it's the right thing to do. To open the Nemo Subs with full access designed in properly, they'd have to practically rip the place apart and start from scratch.
    In essence, I really was trying to say, without realy saying it...

    Why start complaining about the subs are going to have and what they are not going to have now, it is not even opened yet. The altertantive viewing area might be great!

    Wait and see...

    Just MHO, YMMV

    CU@DL

    Andy

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