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  1. #1

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    Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    That's the question!

  2. #2

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    PragmaticIdealist, most of your posts enlighten me. This one however does not. You made this thread to express your dislike of Rockin', but that's something you have communicated in several other threads. So maybe the real question is why did you make this thread, because you made your point very clear elsewhere.

    As for the space - oh well, it's just a bunch of mirror balls anyway. I seem to remember a bunch of people complaining when Space '05 debuted that that's about all there is to it.


  3. #3

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    Oh brother, it's a temporary change, just to mix things up. I think it will be fun. You know that it will be back to normal in a couple months. Get over it.
    (oh, and I second 2DieFR's comment on your usual enlightening posts--this one isn't)

  4. #4

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    I'm agreeing... this is about as bad as when all flash photography was branded as the spawn of satan.

    And to answer the question:

    space
    Pronunciation: 'spAs
    Function: noun
    Usage: often attributive
    Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French espace, space, from Latin spatium area, room, interval of space or time
    1 : a period of time; also : its duration
    2 a : a limited extent in one, two, or three dimensions : DISTANCE, AREA, VOLUME b : an extent set apart or available <parking space> <floor space> c : the distance from other people or things that a person needs in order to remain comfortable <invading my personal space>
    3 : one of the degrees between or above or below the lines of a musical staff -- compare LINE
    4 a : a boundless three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction <infinite space and time> b : physical space independent of what occupies it -- called also absolute space
    5 : the region beyond the earth's atmosphere or beyond the solar system
    6 a : a blank area separating words or lines b : material used to produce such blank area; especially : a piece of type less than one en in width
    7 : a set of mathematical elements and especially of abstractions of all the points on a line, in a plane, or in physical space; especially : a set of mathematical entities with a set of axioms of geometric character -- compare METRIC SPACE, TOPOLOGICAL SPACE, VECTOR SPACE
    8 a : LINAGE b : broadcast time available especially to advertisers
    9 : accommodations on a public vehicle
    10 a : the opportunity to assert or experience one's identity or needs freely b : an opportunity for privacy or time to oneself
    I think it still fits in with several of those definitions. Except definition 9 on a very crowded day.
    -Tim

  5. #5

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    I'm with you, PragmaticIdealist.

    The sole point of Space Mountain is in creating the substance and illusion of riding through Space. To turn on the lights and blow the illusion is the very antithesis of what Walt Disney's Disneyland was about. And with contemporary rather than futuristic music/illusion too... It's dumping the elegant theme and story and immersion and meticulous planning for a cheesy marketing scheme of the moment.

    Disneyland should be above this.

    That this point can be unimportant or dismissed is what disappoints me. Don't listen to the management apologists - - your post is right on target in its very simplicity and elegance. Keep it up.

  6. #6

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones View Post
    That this point can be unimportant or dismissed is what disappoints me. Don't listen to the management apologists - - your post is right on target in its very simplicity and elegance. Keep it up.

    I'm disagreeing. Simplicity isn't what threads are made of. That's why "Go ahead, talk amongst yourselves" threads aren't very long-lived.

    While I'm all for keeping the Dick Dale track in and removing that awful music they brought in when it reopened, Space Mountain shouldn't be a corpse. A mix of shows is good for an attraction.

    I find it funny how many of the ones that are defenders of Walt's word are the first to forget that Walt was the first to forget what he said about the parks.

    Sure, many things might not be quite up to par to what it used to be, but why complain about temporary changes?
    -Tim

  7. #7

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones View Post
    I'm with you, PragmaticIdealist.

    The sole point of Space Mountain is in creating the substance and illusion of riding through Space. To turn on the lights and blow the illusion is the very antithesis of what Walt Disney's Disneyland was about. And with contemporary rather than futuristic music/illusion too... It's dumping the elegant theme and story and immersion and meticulous planning for a cheesy marketing scheme of the moment.

    Disneyland should be above this.

    That this point can be unimportant or dismissed is what disappoints me. Don't listen to the management apologists - - your post is right on target in its very simplicity and elegance. Keep it up.
    I am not against the basic premise of this thread. In general I agree with everything.

    I just want to bring up a philosophical question, though...

    What exactly is "futuristic" music? I don't think there really is such a thing because is there certain music that we can't stand now that for some reason will be accepted in the future? What standard would we place on a piece of music that is futuristic and is this music something really that would be listened to in the future or not?

    I think that music in the future is not going to be much different than the music we hear today. Sure, there will be some variations as far as instrumentation and certain sounds of new insruments, but the biology of the human body is "pre-wired" to accept certain sounds a music and reject more dissonant sounds as not being musical.

    I am reminded of a Star Trek -- the Next Generation episode where they are having a Mozart performance on the enterprise. People are still going to be listening to the great composers hundreds of years from now, in additon to the Beatles I am sure, in addition to future pieces of music, which are not going to sound much different.

  8. #8

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrumiousBoojum View Post
    While I'm all for keeping the Dick Dale track in and removing that awful music they brought in when it reopened, Space Mountain shouldn't be a corpse. A mix of shows is good for an attraction.

    Reopening music > Dick Dale Music

    Surfing in space for the lose.

    IMO

  9. #9

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    The Space is still there--you just can't see it--it's an Inner Space.

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    >>Sure, many things might not be quite up to par to what it used to be, but why complain about temporary changes?<<

    Temporary changes like Sleeping Beauty Castle closure, Tarzan Treehouse, Walt's "borrowed" office, EPCOT hand/wand sign, D-MGM sorcerer hat, Club Buzz, Jack Sparrow, Lincoln closure, the "relocation" of Captain Hook's Pirate Ship and Skull Rock, Aladdin's Oasis, Big Thunder Ranch, Gummy Gulch, Afternoon Avenue, abandoned Peoplemover tracks...? Poor temporary changes sometimes have a way of becoming permananent when accountants don't want to reinvest.
    Last edited by merlinjones; 01-04-2007 at 08:10 AM.

  11. #11

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    It's in Paris, Tokyo, Florida, and Hong Kong.

  12. #12

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    >>What exactly is "futuristic" music? I don't think there really is such a thing because is there certain music that we can't stand now that for some reason will be accepted in the future? What standard would we place on a piece of music that is futuristic and is this music something really that would be listened to in the future or not?<<

    Good question. In this case, its not necessarily the style, type or genre of music that inappropriate, but this specific material is clearly a radio hit of the 1990's/2000's, an "oldie" in the future world of Space Mountain/Tomorrowland and a familar "today" tune to our ears. - - and one without a theme/lyrics tied to optimistic futurism, space exploration, future kitsch or really anythinng else of thematic relevance to the environment.

    It's like when Chris Reeve finds the 1970's penny in his pocket when he's time travelling in 1900 (in Somewhere in Time) and he's thrown back to the present because the convincing illusion was blown.

  13. #13

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones View Post
    >>Sure, many things might not be quite up to par to what it used to be, but why complain about temporary changes?<<

    Temporary changes like Sleeping Beauty Castle closure, Tarzan Treehouse, Walt's "borrowed" office, EPCOT hand/wand sign, D-MGM sorcerer hat, Club Buzz, Jack Sparrow, Lincoln closure, the relocation of Captain Hook's Pirate Ship and Skull Rock, Aladdin's Oasis, Big Thunder Ranch, abandoned Peoplemover tracks...? Poor temporary changes sometimes have a way of becoming permananent when accountants don't want to reinvest.
    Most temporary changes have more to do with the public popularity of attractions. Mickey's Toontown Fair and Camp Minnie-Mickey were only temporary attractions, but the proved to be too popular. So, it's the public's fault that they stay.

    As for stuff like the Lincoln closure, I'm not going to say I don't like it, but it's the fault of everybody that goes to Disneyland. It's been nearly empty for years, people don't support it when it's open. That's why things close.

    Other things, they really aren't that big of a deal. Really, the Epcot wand might not be what we had when we were young, but it's just not that big of a deal in the end.

    And, besides, haven't you also learned from the subs that sometimes it just might take a lot longer than originally thought? I'm not for closing attractions with no replacement in mind, but sometimes things need to be closed and not just be open for the sake of being open for that one person per day that may stop by.
    -Tim

  14. #14

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    ^^Lincoln's not gone. it's only be out for about 3 years, and only because of the 50th. Disney promised it would return too.

    The new layover is supposed to be like an intergalactic rock concert in space. so there's the space in Space Mountain.

  15. #15

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    Re: Where's the Space in Space Mountain, Now?

    >>Really, the Epcot wand might not be what we had when we were young, but it's just not that big of a deal in the end.<<

    It has nothing to do with "what we had when we were young" - - it's simply ugly, bad design that takes way from the beautifully conceived environment, a travesty of taste on any timeline. It's really a visual blight. One reason I don't go to WDW much is stuff like this.

    >>And, besides, haven't you also learned from the subs that sometimes it just might take a lot longer than originally thought?<<

    Great point. There was absolutely NO excuse for a Fortune 500 global conglomerate to leave that lagoon empty and derelict for ten years - - an entire generation of children could have been enjoying it, not to mention the rest of us. It was unneccessary and unforgivable.

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