Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
PragmaticIdealist 
While I understand your reticence to trust the people currently in charge of Imagineering and Operations to deliver show elements that truly enhance the Disneyland Railroad, I'm referring mostly to the ways the area surrounding the right-of-way is designed.
I'm not necessarily reticent about Imagineering and what they might do (although I do have my suspicions), but more leery about the need for any substantive changes.
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Originally Posted by
PragmaticIdealist Adventureland should look more foreign and exotic. Frontierland should appear more rustic and rugged. Fantasyland should seem both charming and enchanted. And, Tomorrowland should feel more visionary and futuristic.
How can Adventureland look any more exotic? Remember: While many fans believe the trains roll along "on top of" the berm, except for a very brief section at Main Street, this just isn't true. In reality, in this section the trains ride outside the berm--because the designers knew that trains visible from the launches would be an incongruous story element that would very quickly break the suspension of disbelief that the Park relies on (or used to) in so many ways.
Frontierland more rugged and rustic? See, this baffles me. The trains running along the deciduous backwoods along the Rivers of America, with the Mark Twain or Columbia occasionally spotted through the growth, is about as evocative of frontier America as one is likely to find. I dare say that this is probably the most-loved section of the railroad, simply for the reason that for a few brief minutes, you are not in Anaheim any longer, but skirting the Mississippi of the 1850s.
The trains running through Fantasyland literally become part of one of its most cherished icons: It's a Small World. And when the trains enter Tomorrowland, they roll along under the Monorail beamways, effectively juxtaposing the 19th century steam trains with the (imagined) transportation system of the future
What more is necessary? How can fantasyland look more charming? The view is one of walkways and the Small World queue; How can TL look more futuristic?
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Originally Posted by
PragmaticIdealist Imagine, for example, that as guests are plunged into Adventureland, they find themselves in a tropical setting filled with pools and waterfalls, as well as some fauna to join the existing flora. The railroad has a few brief moments to clearly convey to guests the theme of Adventureland, so the scenery lining the right-of-way here should be chosen especially carefully.
You've got to realize that the space required for all of these magnificent show elements just isn't there.
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Originally Posted by
PragmaticIdealist I also wouldn't mind if the trains overlook the Jungle Cruise launches at certain places along the route.
Now, this is the thinking that allows Pirates to to invade a Mississippi island, and would be the kind of Imagineering that would make me reticent: If the trains can view the launches, the launches can view the trains--and it is absolutely VITAL that competing story elements do not intermarry! One would never see 1890s passenger trains skirting the Amazon River! Do you not see that this could be a problem?
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Originally Posted by
PragmaticIdealist And, the backside of the Pirates of the Caribbean show buildings are just begging to be covered with elaborate stage sets that further establish Adventureland and that conceal the backstage areas better.
I agree 100%. This tunnel transition is one of the poorer ones in the park (the other being the corrugated pipe between Frontierland and Fantasyland)
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Originally Posted by
PragmaticIdealist The rest of the main line offers a host of similar opportunities for making Disneyland appear more beautiful and more evocative from the trains.
Again, let's not fix something that isn't broke. 90% of the main line is just wonderful; we should focus our energies more on the 10% (like the two transition tunnels) to "plus" the ride.
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
Steve DeGaetano Frontierland more rugged and rustic? See, this baffles me. The trains running along the deciduous backwoods along the Rivers of America, with the Mark Twain or Columbia occasionally spotted through the growth, is about as evocative of frontier America as one is likely to find. I dare say that this is probably the most-loved section of the railroad, simply for the reason that for a few brief minutes, you are not in Anaheim any longer, but skirting the Mississippi of the 1850s.
Here are some examples of just what could be possible if Disney sees the logic in improving the scenery along the right-of-way.
The first is of Frontierland at Disneyland Paris. Notice how the landscape evokes the original painted desert of the Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland. Show scenes like these would be ideal for improving the ugly dry-docks for "Fantasmic!" and for fixing the bad show that is the Festival Arena.
For the full effect, be sure you have the volume turned up. http://youtube.com/watch?v=MKDUhw7MscY (Incidentally, an upgrade to the sound system aboard the trains, plus a musical score for the grand circle tour, might be welcome additions, too.)
The grotto I mentioned for Adventureland is really only one of any number of possibilities as this next part of our grand circle video tour of Disneyland Paris shows. http://youtube.com/watch?v=h586l3ih8y8
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
Steve DeGaetano What more is necessary? How can fantasyland look more charming? The view is one of walkways and the Small World queue; How can TL look more futuristic?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zzKGezvjQNU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8xEg6fs4g9k
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
Steve DeGaetano Now, this is the thinking that allows Pirates to to invade a Mississippi island, and would be the kind of Imagineering that would make me reticent: If the trains can view the launches, the launches can view the trains--and it is absolutely VITAL that competing story elements do not intermarry! One would never see 1890s passenger trains skirting the Amazon River! Do you not see that this could be a problem?
I agree 100%. This tunnel transition is one of the poorer ones in the park (the other being the corrugated pipe between Frontierland and Fantasyland)
Again, let's not fix something that isn't broke. 90% of the main line is just wonderful; we should focus our energies more on the 10% (like the two transition tunnels) to "plus" the ride.
Uhmmm actually 50% of the time you're on the train you're seeing bad show. The corrugated pipe tunnel to Fantasyland, the taxidermy tunnel in the Grand Canyon, the Agrifuturistic 'backside of autopia', the 'what's that place?' arena of fools, and the 'tropical berm devoid of flora and fauna beg for a "Disneyfication."
As for steam trains going through the jungle... Sounds like a certain Disney railroad that used to haul sugarcane in the Yucatan. Not too far fetched to me. At Tokyo Disneyland, it was deemed sufficiently appropriate that the railroad goes through Frontierland AND Adventureland but not the other lands.
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
I have to agree with Steve's lengthy post. I love riding the train because trains in general but steam trains in particular are magical. I live in Nor Cal so I have more a few good options to get a good railroad fix but the reality is I get it most often at Disneyland! If I could only go on one ride at Disneyland it would be the train!
If plussing is in order, just give me more railroad elements. I love the lights and sounds. The best thing that came out of the addition of Bear Country (now Critter Country) was the inclusion of a beautiful trestle! Give me another trestle or bridge. The best elements of the old Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland was riding along the river under a waterfall and then over a bridge next to a waterfall. I would be happy if elements like that found their way in the budget.
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
If DL wanted to "plus" it up, it could give a tour of the roundhouse.
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
I also agree that Disneyland could certainly do more to improve the railroad. They need to theme some areas and improve others. For example when the train leaves Main Street station the guest is shown some of the backstage areas behind Main Street and beyond the berm. I know it's difficult to hide these things but not impossible. As the guest travels through Adventureland you see nothing but a hill of foliage. There was a black panther on a rock a while back and he dissappeared, only to leave the rock behind. Then out of the blue you see some mardi gras props and then a tunnel and then New Orleans Square. What the heck happened there? No gradual theming. Just a sudden change from the jungles of the amazon to mardi gras. After New Orleans Square it's by far the best section of the railroad, with all the theming and scenery. Once it gets past the old thunder ranch it all goes downhill again and stays that way. I usually tend to ride the railroad from new orleans to toontown because it's the only real decent part.
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
ExJungleSkipper95 I also agree that Disneyland could certainly do more to improve the railroad. They need to theme some areas and improve others. For example when the train leaves Main Street station the guest is shown some of the backstage areas behind Main Street and beyond the berm. I know it's difficult to hide these things but not impossible. As the guest travels through Adventureland you see nothing but a hill of foliage. There was a black panther on a rock a while back and he dissappeared, only to leave the rock behind. Then out of the blue you see some mardi gras props and then a tunnel and then New Orleans Square. What the heck happened there? No gradual theming. Just a sudden change from the jungles of the amazon to mardi gras. After New Orleans Square it's by far the best section of the railroad, with all the theming and scenery. Once it gets past the old thunder ranch it all goes downhill again and stays that way. I usually tend to ride the railroad from new orleans to toontown because it's the only real decent part.
Exactly! It picks up again after the Grand Canyon, in last diorama of the Primeval World.
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
PS Last time, I rode it from NOS to Toontown, at night. With a RR conductor guy on the side of the train saying:
"Lady, I can see you eating. Please no eating on the train.
Lady, I know it's dark, but there's no eating on the train. No lollypops. Please, put it away."
And pitch darkness the whole way.
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
CaliforniaAdventurer PS Last time, I rode it from NOS to Toontown, at night. With a RR conductor guy on the side of the train saying:
"Lady, I can see you eating. Please no eating on the train.
Lady, I know it's dark, but there's no eating on the train. No lollypops. Please, put it away."
And pitch darkness the whole way.
Reminds me of this one time that the CM riding on the train suddenly turned on his flashlight under his face and shrieked at these girls sitting in the front row. Scared the crap out of anyone sitting in that car and to this day it still cracks me up.
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
ExJungleSkipper95 Reminds me of this one time that the CM riding on the train suddenly turned on his flashlight under his face and shrieked at these girls sitting in the front row. Scared the crap out of anyone sitting in that car and to this day it still cracks me up.
Good idea, wandering hobos could hitch a ride and scare you at night.
We'll call it:
"Disneyland Railroad Halloween Holiday."
For a limited time only, at Disneyland.
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
CaliforniaAdventurer PS Last time, I rode it from NOS to Toontown, at night. With a RR conductor guy on the side of the train saying:
"Lady, I can see you eating. Please no eating on the train.
Lady, I know it's dark, but there's no eating on the train. No lollypops. Please, put it away."
And pitch darkness the whole way.
The lack of lighting is one of my biggest complaints, too.
At night, there are very few show lights. The parking structure is unbelievably prominent in Frontierland. The dry-docks for "Fantasmic!" are lit like a parking lot, and red lights are flashing all over the place. Tech. services has been known to keep work lights on in Festival Arena and the Fantasyland Theatre. Then, in Tomorrowland, guests experience fluorescent city while the new lights of Harbor Boulevard are fully visible.
The D.R.R. of 2007 is filled with several examples of poor showmanship, especially at night.
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
CaliforniaAdventurer As for steam trains going through the jungle... Sounds like a certain Disney railroad that used to haul sugarcane in the Yucatan. Not too far fetched to me. At Tokyo Disneyland, it was deemed sufficiently appropriate that the railroad goes through Frontierland AND Adventureland but not the other lands.
Someone is paying attention. :)
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
CaliforniaAdventurer Uhmmm actually 50% of the time you're on the train you're seeing bad show. The corrugated pipe tunnel to Fantasyland, the taxidermy tunnel in the Grand Canyon, the Agrifuturistic 'backside of autopia', the 'what's that place?' arena of fools, and the 'tropical berm devoid of flora and fauna beg for a "Disneyfication."
Hmmm...your idea of 50% and mine vary widely. The Grand Canyon still is a great piece of classic diorama building. Sure, a tunnel here and there could be themed better, but the rest of the Railroad is really great. And you might want to check the definition of "flora." The Adventurland segment of the ride is anything but "devoid" of that particular ingredient.
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Originally Posted by
CaliforniaAdventurer As for steam trains going through the jungle... Sounds like a certain Disney railroad that used to haul sugarcane in the Yucatan. Not too far fetched to me. At Tokyo Disneyland, it was deemed sufficiently appropriate that the railroad goes through Frontierland AND Adventureland but not the other lands.
And contrary to Pragmatic's analysis of this section, someone isn't quite "paying attention." The WDW steam engines were not a "Disney railroad that used to haul sugarcane." The four WDW steam engines hauled hemp. In the Yucatan, they were foreign freight trains, eventually brought back to America and rebuilt. The Disneyland trains are meant to evoke typical AMERICAN turn-of-the-century passenger railroad practices. You cannot equate the two. And there is a very specific reason the Tokyo trains traverse the route they do--and it has nothing to do with "appropriateness.".
If you two don't think that being able to see the steam trains glide through a section of Deepest Darkest Africa while your guide shoots at hippos is a recipe for disastrous storytelling, then I guess you don't get it. (Pragmatic, I'm especially disappointed that you don't see this--especially since you've been such an advocate for seamless storytelling).
Re: Improving the Disneyland Railroad in Order to Utilize Excess Capacity
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Originally Posted by
Steve DeGaetano If you two don't think that being able to see the steam trains glide through a section of Deepest Darkest Africa while your guide shoots at hippos is a recipe for disastrous storytelling, then I guess you don't get it. (Pragmatic, I'm especially disappointed that you don't see this--especially since you've been such an advocate for seamless storytelling).
You know me, Steve. :)
I would prefer that the Disneyland Railroad be able to view the Jungle Cruise launches while they, in turn, are not able to see the trains. And, there is, indeed, a way to achieve exactly that effect. But, I'm really just imagining all the possibilities.
When I think of trains in Adventureland, I imagine railways through Africa and across India. But, the nature of the Jungle Cruise is such that it allows for some stylization since the launches ply the Rivers of the World. So, the Amazon exists alongside: the Congo; the Nile; the Yangtze; and, even the Swannee. And, there is an implication that the Disneyland Railroad, itself, is somehow touched with magic because the trains can traverse the boundaries separating each realm.
The D.R.R. belongs to Main Street, Disneyland, U.S.A., but the four realms that lie beyond the castle walls and across the castle moat are really just the other side of the same coin. This duality of Disneyland as both Everyone's Hometown and The Magic Kingdom is partly what allows an American turn-of-the-19th-Century train to appear in such unexpected places as an early 1800's Frontierland or a futuristic Tomorrowland or even a foreign and exotic Adventureland.
The themes of adventure and fantasy, as well as frontiers and tomorrows, are contained within Main Street, U.S.A. It is essentially the factual place and time in which Walt Disney spent his formative years and developed his prodigious imagination, which he, then, expresses in: Adventureland; Frontierland; Fantasyland; and, Tomorrowland.
The Disneyland Railroad is a symbol of the great storyteller, himself, since it comes from Main Street, U.S.A. and connects the four imaginary realms together. In a way, the D.R.R. embodies Walt Disney at Disneyland.
Whenever the audience passes from Main Street, U.S.A. and into the four realms, in reality, these guests have become passengers who have stepped aboard his imagination, which will, then, carry them into these worlds of his mind.
