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  1. #61

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by TP2000 View Post
    Disneyland Resort has 69 attractions and Disney World has 79.
    So now it's attractions and not rides? Last I checked the title said rides

    If you want to compare attractions.. its wayyy different.

    Plus, start counting all the stuff you left out

    - Both Water Parks
    - the golf courses
    - the putt putt courses
    - the WWOS
    - Richard Petty Experience

    Scale is another factor your basic count doesn't include. Things such as Test Track, Living Seas, SSE, Lights Motors Action, etc simply aren't feasible at DLR due to LACK of space.

    It boils down to in the end.. Size DOES matter. If you don't think so, go back and dig up all the threads crying about such and such ride being ripped out for new ones (like Pooh)

  2. #62

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Obviously a couple people here have gotten defensive about WDW. I never took this thread to mean that DLR is better than WDW because of ride count (even thought DLR's is lower). It was just a comment about ride count (or attraction count, LOL). In any case, what TP posted was something I too was surprised to find when I did my own count in 2006. So I think it is enlightening for someone to post this. Plus the headliner count is interesting, as subjective as that is.

    However, I did not think TP did a fair job of counting up entertainment, which I pointed out.

    In any case, comparing DLR to WDW is hard because people who favor one resort over the other often apply strengths of their favorite resort to the other and find it lacking, without giving enough consideration to the strengths of the other resort. Plus most people are sentimental towards their favorite resort.

    Both DLR and WDW have strengths. Yes, WDW offers much more outside the parks. Some people go for that. Others don't. Probably more DLR vets should.

  3. #63

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by HydroGuy View Post
    Yes, WDW offers much more outside the parks. Some people go for that. Others don't.
    Here's the irony.. people like Disney for what it does 'beyond the norm'. So why are they so against visiting a theme park to be 'beyond the theme park itself?'.

    I think its really the difference that people expect in DLR to go to the parks and then go 'home'. They don't consider the trip to be an immersion that doesn't stop at the end of the day. WDW is about entering the resort.. and immersing yourself the entire time in Disney. From lodging, food, entertainment, activities, etc. It's not about going to the MK, and then going back to your hotel on 192.

    My wife did that for 30 years (her grandparents were snowbirds in Orlando) and she totally saw a whole new side to a Disney vacation the first time she went with me and stayed on property for a week.

    People accustomed to DLR as a Disney Experience expect to go, and then be done. People brought up with WDW vacations expect the parks to be just one element of the trip.

    I think this is obvious when you compare people's travel compared to the parks. Who goes to DLR for a week? By the counts shown here, why wouldn't you need a week or more to experience everything DLR has.. since that much time or more is needed for WDW.. and their 'ride' counts are so similar?

    DLR is 'concentrated' and not just in space, but in scope as well.

  4. #64

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    TP200, you did a great job in classify the rides as to their value too.

    Why is it so close? The reason is that Disney management has not really fulfilled the potential of WDW. Walt stuff Disneyland with all kinds of entertainment. That legacy is what makes DL special.

    WDW, while still wonderful, has some bare spots. I feel that World Showcase needs more rides and better ones. DMGMS is also a park that was not executed well and needs more attractions to make it a full day experience.

    Of course, DCA also is in need of more rides, particularly E tickets and rides that the whole family can enjoy.

    But thanks for the analysis. You did a great job! I wish I could give a rep point, but unfortunately I gave one too recently to you.
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  5. #65

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Here's the irony.. people like Disney for what it does 'beyond the norm'. So why are they so against visiting a theme park to be 'beyond the theme park itself?'.

    I think its really the difference that people expect in DLR to go to the parks and then go 'home'. They don't consider the trip to be an immersion that doesn't stop at the end of the day. WDW is about entering the resort.. and immersing yourself the entire time in Disney. From lodging, food, entertainment, activities, etc. It's not about going to the MK, and then going back to your hotel on 192.

    My wife did that for 30 years (her grandparents were snowbirds in Orlando) and she totally saw a whole new side to a Disney vacation the first time she went with me and stayed on property for a week.

    People accustomed to DLR as a Disney Experience expect to go, and then be done. People brought up with WDW vacations expect the parks to be just one element of the trip.

    I think this is obvious when you compare people's travel compared to the parks. Who goes to DLR for a week? By the counts shown here, why wouldn't you need a week or more to experience everything DLR has.. since that much time or more is needed for WDW.. and their 'ride' counts are so similar?

    DLR is 'concentrated' and not just in space, but in scope as well.
    I agree completely, with the caveat that DLR does have some areas where it exceeds WDW. But WDW is more immersive, and DLR vets who visit WDW should change hats when they go there and think differently about how they experience the resort and what it offers. The same goes for WDW vets who visit DLR.

  6. #66

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Here's the irony.. people like Disney for what it does 'beyond the norm'. So why are they so against visiting a theme park to be 'beyond the theme park itself?'.
    Many people are NOT against going beyond the theme parks, but many just don't have the time and money to do so. And to be honest, when Disney advertises WDW, they don't show us all the extras the resort has to offer. They show us the new attractions at their theme parks because that's what pulls us in first and foremost.

    Staying on WDW property is really expensive so until I'm able to spend a long vacation over in Florida, I'm perfectly happy sticking with the theme parks. And while WDW does have the gift of size and scale for some incredible immersive attractions (like the living seas, universe of energy, etc)... they have plenty of space in MK to add a number of new dark rides to their line-up rather than constantly replacing attractions that are already there.


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  7. #67

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    If you were going to compare, I think the fairest thing to do is to count only rides, films, and animatronic shows only. That's the only way to avoid a debate on what to count in AK and such.

    Also, count that train and conservation station as one attraction (just as I'd count the rafts and Tom Sawyer's Island together) as the train is merely transportation to the station and the station cannot be experienced without the train.
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  8. #68

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Many people are NOT against going beyond the theme parks, but many just don't have the time and money to do so.
    So now we pass judgement based on what an individual can afford to do? Isn't that like saying 'London sucks because I can't afford to go there?'


    Staying on WDW property is really expensive so until I'm able to spend a long vacation over in Florida, I'm perfectly happy sticking with the theme parks.
    And when someone does spend that kind of money.. they don't expect to ride a couple rides and go home. That's why the RESORT aspect of WDW is so different then DLR. WDW isn't setup or targeted for someone to roll up for 18hrs and 'take it all in'. Everything from the ticketing, layout, schedules, are all geared to keep you there for an extended stay.

    they have plenty of space in MK to add a number of new dark rides to their line-up rather than constantly replacing attractions that are already there.
    ?? MK doesn't replace many rides.. dead ones come out.. but they don't replace successful attractions based on space alone (something DLR is seemingly forced into). Not all attractions deserve immortality

  9. #69

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    So now we pass judgement based on what an individual can afford to do? Isn't that like saying 'London sucks because I can't afford to go there?'




    And when someone does spend that kind of money.. they don't expect to ride a couple rides and go home. That's why the RESORT aspect of WDW is so different then DLR. WDW isn't setup or targeted for someone to roll up for 18hrs and 'take it all in'. Everything from the ticketing, layout, schedules, are all geared to keep you there for an extended stay.



    ?? MK doesn't replace many rides.. dead ones come out.. but they don't replace successful attractions based on space alone (something DLR is seemingly forced into). Not all attractions deserve immortality

    Flynnibus, I know you have a huge emotional attachment to WDW but you need to read what we're saying. and NOBODY is saying that "WDW sucks" so analogy about London is very poor.

    WDW is a different animal than Disneyland. But THIS thread is about the rides only. Yes it's true that WDW has so much more to offer outside of the parks, but everything else isn't as "disney" as a Disney theme park. Playing a round of golf there might be really cool... but is my experience going to be that much better than another high-end golf course somewhere else? In the end, probably not.

    WDW is definitely a place for extended stay. So wouldn't you agree that they could certainly add more rides then? Give folks that want rides more reason to go. The folks that are there for everything will also have more options to choose from. It's a win-win. (just say yes and we can all move on)


    I posted this somewhere else, maybe in this thread but MK's recent attractions have been handled well... not in the best way.

    -20,000 Leagues removed from Fantasyland. Large patch of grass in its place, and a small portion for Pooh's Playground.

    -Tiki Room Under New Management. Not the best experience.

    -Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin replaces Delta Dreamflight.

    -Mickey's Philharmagic replaces Legend of the Lion King.

    -Magic Carpets of Aladdin added to Adventureland, cheapens the entire area.

    -Stitch Encounter replaces Alien Encounter. Many don't like the update.

    -Monsters Inc Laugh Floor replaces Time Keeper.



    So there's a list of all of MK's recent attractions. It only seems as if Magic Carpets is the actual new addition. So though MK has the luxury of not replacing rides all the time, that's what's been happening the past decade.

    And no, I'm not bashing the park. Only noting what I'm observing and hoping that they turn it around. WDW is a great place but it could be better.


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  10. #70

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Flynnibus, I know you have a huge emotional attachment to WDW but you need to read what we're saying. and NOBODY is saying that "WDW sucks" so analogy about London is very poor.
    I didn't say anything about WDW sucks or not. The point is you can't use your individual financial abilities to grade the significance or not of why things are included in the resort. Just because you can't afford to goto WDW for a week, does that mean Disney shouldn't consider the extended stay demographic?

    WDW is a different animal than Disneyland. But THIS thread is about the rides only. Yes it's true that WDW has so much more to offer outside of the parks, but everything else isn't as "disney" as a Disney theme park. Playing a round of golf there might be really cool... but is my experience going to be that much better than another high-end golf course somewhere else? In the end, probably not.
    Well I suggest you try it, because it sounds like you haven't. By your logic.. I shouldn't try the Disney Cruise lines either.. because.. it must just be like other existing cruise lines.

    WDW is definitely a place for extended stay. So wouldn't you agree that they could certainly add more rides then? Give folks that want rides more reason to go.
    More rides that guests can't experience aren't going to gain a whole lot. Given a week, you would struggle to experience the entire resort as is. And you can go reference the studies (posted and referenced here on MC several times) about the impact of new rides on long term guest attendance.

    By your logic.. why doesn't DL just rip out the castle and replace it with another ride. More rides is what people want right? Forget those 'attractions'

    I posted this somewhere else, maybe in this thread but MK's recent attractions have been handled well... not in the best way.

    -20,000 Leagues removed from Fantasyland. Large patch of grass in its place, and a small portion for Pooh's Playground.
    -Tiki Room Under New Management. Not the best experience.
    -Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin replaces Delta Dreamflight.
    -Mickey's Philharmagic replaces Legend of the Lion King.
    -Magic Carpets of Aladdin added to Adventureland, cheapens the entire area.
    -Stitch Encounter replaces Alien Encounter. Many don't like the update.
    -Monsters Inc Laugh Floor replaces Time Keeper.
    You said rip out attractions for new ones. In fact your quote was 'rather than constantly replacing attractions that are already there'

    The list above is nothing like that.
    - 20K? An attraction that was closed down, not because the space was lusted for another attraction.
    - Tiki? It was 'upgraded'. What, you want the old AND new tiki in the same park?
    - Buzz replaced a dead attraction
    - LionKing stuff all moved to AK
    - Aladdin - addition
    - AE was REMOVED because the attraction wasn't liked
    - Timekeeper - same as above.

    These attractions that were removed were not done to make room for a new one.. because they needed the real estate. They were removed because they were no longer desired. The one that doesn't fit that is the fantasyland theatre (philharmagic) but that whole theme moved.


    So though MK has the luxury of not replacing rides all the time, that's what's been happening the past decade.
    No, they've been pulled out DEAD attractions.

  11. #71

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    So now it's attractions and not rides? Last I checked the title said rides
    Rides, attractions, same thing. My original list in the very first post had several attractions that are not "rides" in that they don't use a vehicle transportation system to present their experience to the guest.

    I guess you could get very technical and break it into two categories; attractions that use ride vehicles as part of the experience, and attractions that don't use ride vehicles. But then is the moving floor in Honey I Shrunk The Audience a vehicle? Is Muppetvision not an attraction because it doesn't use a ride vehicle? I counted that attraction in my list for both properties, even though experiencing MuppetVision doesn't involve boarding a moving vehicle.

    I apologize if I interchange the word "ride" with the word "attraction" at various places in the thread. It's just semantics. How about if I restate the thesis to this entire thread with the following sentence...

    Disneyland Resort has 69 attractions and Disney World has 79 attractions.

    Does that help?

  12. #72

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by FrumiousBoojum View Post
    Also, count that train and conservation station as one attraction (just as I'd count the rafts and Tom Sawyer's Island together) as the train is merely transportation to the station and the station cannot be experienced without the train.
    Yes, I agree with you. I only broke it into two attractions instead of one because I was consciously trying to beef up the rather short list of "attractions" for Animal Kingdom. What's even funnier is that the Animal Kingdom guidemap actually counts that experience as four separate attractions, numbers 9 through 12, of the total official attraction count of 22 for Animal Kingdom.

    To quote the AK guidemap, the train to Conservation Station comprises these four "attractions";

    9)Wildlife Express Train - Non-stop rustic express train to Rafiki's Planet Watch. After exploring, reboard for a trip straight back to Africa.

    10)Habitat Habit! - See amazing cotton-top tamarins on this leg of our outdoor discovery trail, and get helpful hints on how to share the world (and your own backyard) with animals.

    11)Conservation Station - Live animal encounters and interactive exhibits with interesting facts about animal habitats. Plus an in-depth look at the care our creaturs receive through veterinary attention, nutrition and research programs.

    12)Affection Section - Petting yard featuring a number of rare, domesticated breeds from across the globe.

    Having experienced this part of Animal Kingdom for myself, I just couldn't bring myself to count this train ride and animal exhibit as four separate attractions. But I was trying to be nice to a park that is a bit short on attractions as it is, so I counted it as two attractions instead of one. To it's credit, the little train ride takes about five minutes or so, which is longer than the 90 second raft ride over to Tom Sawyer Island.

    The Animal Kingdom guidemap takes some liberties in adding things to the list of 22 official "attractions". The Fossil Fun Games, pay-per-play carnival games in DinoLand, are also listed as an attraction at #18 on the map. The little huts for Character meet n' greets in Camp Minnie-Mickey are also an attraction, #6 on the Animal Kingdom guidemap. I did not include either one in my tally for this thread however. I tried to beef up Animal Kingdom's numbers a bit, but that goodwill can only go so far. I drew the line at carnival games.
    Last edited by TP2000; 02-19-2007 at 06:18 PM.

  13. #73

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by Heather Ripley View Post
    I can't believe that people argue about such things.
    While at WDW I overhead a guest comment about Disneyland, "That place is just crap. It's so small and there is nothing to do."

    That is why threads like this appear. Americans think bigger is always better. While there are times that bigger is better, small doesn't mean worse.
    "Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." --Carl Sagan

  14. #74

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I didn't say anything about WDW sucks or not. The point is you can't use your individual financial abilities to grade the significance or not of why things are included in the resort. Just because you can't afford to goto WDW for a week, does that mean Disney shouldn't consider the extended stay demographic?
    You still don't get it.



    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Well I suggest you try it, because it sounds like you haven't. By your logic.. I shouldn't try the Disney Cruise lines either.. because.. it must just be like other existing cruise lines.
    By my logic? By my logic I don't golf at WDW because it's not where my interests lie. If you're interested in going on a cruise line, DO it.


    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    More rides that guests can't experience aren't going to gain a whole lot. Given a week, you would struggle to experience the entire resort as is. And you can go reference the studies (posted and referenced here on MC several times) about the impact of new rides on long term guest attendance.
    I go to WDW for the theme parks. I'm sure there are countless folk that do the same. People WILL go if there's a new experience.


    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    By your logic.. why doesn't DL just rip out the castle and replace it with another ride. More rides is what people want right? Forget those 'attractions'
    Rides = attractions. The castle in Disneyland USED to be an attraction walk-through as well. It's a shame that it no longer serves as an attraction and an icon.



    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    These attractions that were removed were not done to make room for a new one.. because they needed the real estate. They were removed because they were no longer desired. The one that doesn't fit that is the fantasyland theatre (philharmagic) but that whole theme moved.

    No, they've been pulled out DEAD attractions.

    And why are these attractions dead I wonder? Because there aren't enough other attractions for guests to visit... so they go and visit the same old ones over and over and get SICK of them.

    More attractions at the Magic Kingdom wouldn't hurt whatsoever. And yes, people can still go golfing too if they want.


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  15. #75

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    Re: Surprising Ride Count: Disneyland vs. Disney World

    wow .. this is getting out of hand...

    it's all opinion ... deal with it

    sheesh

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