Bye Autopia?

[BigThunder]

Here's an idea:

Don't scrap the Autopia, just re-landscape the area to look like the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. GW Bush could then narrate the ride as kiddies wiz through the arctic tundra in search of the Earth's last remaining crude oil reserves. Watch in awe as the permafrost melts and the caribou die off... all so we can have one more lap around the track! New name for the attraction: "Countdown to Extinction (ours)".

Sorry for this intrusion of the real world into a Dis forum, but this is something that I feel strongly about. Not only is the Autopia dated (ie not futeristic) it is down right irresponsible to show kids that the continued burning of fossil fuels is still the transportation solution of tomorrow. I know, I know... Its just a ride and the kids love it. Fine. Keep it, but dump Chevron and update the attraction with clean energy technologies. It can (and should) be done.

Or, they could re-landscape the area to look like Iraq...............

(Steps down off of his soap box and runs and hides)

[BoogaFrito]

I think they could definitely do more with it (the Chevron update was a step in the right direction). More interesting scenery or animatronics for one thing (talking Chevron cars, perhaps riding along side you at certain points?), or a people-mover era speed tunnel maybe? Hmm, if they didn't add Buzz, they could have given each car a couple laser guns!

And Tokyo's Pooh technically isn't trackless; the track the pots follow is just under the floor...

[pixie chick]

woo-hoo bigthunder!! i totally agree with ya! (i guess i'll go hide out with you!) i doubt they'll take them out out, especially just to transfer them to DCA. (not that it's a bad idea.) i also agree with the others that a change in the fuel would at least tie in with the futuristic theme a little better. i've never understood the big deal with autopia, even when i was little. (i was a motor boat fan...lol) my son loves it, but i never understand why people would wait for an hour to go on it.

as for the restaurant, wasn't there a huge space on the second floor of the space mountain building? i know it underwent some change when they did away with the escalator & now who knows what it's like, but i thought i remember there being tables & chairs up there before. any thoughts? i just can't picture that area now since space mtn has been closed for so long.

[Ride Warrior]

Autopia is graet! Every Kid LOVES it! And with Chevrons Sponsorship, it also brings in revenue.

Now, if they want to make it more lifelike or futuristic, call it the GW Bush Expessway, and add 500 cars so it is a non-stop traffic jam from start to finish. That also should make it a 3 hour ride, and turn up the fumes!

Many of our politicians are, unfortunately, owned by corporate conglomerates, such as those connected with the automobile and petroleum industries. A few automotive companies have built a few electric/gas hybrid automobiles However, due to their petrolium industry ties, they have shown relatively little interest in further developing the hybrids, or any other transportation that uses alternative fuel.

A ground-breaking trackless ride with electric/gas hybrid cars would bring back new energy, in more ways that one. Every kid would LOVE it even more! Families...both adults and kids would experience "their" future together. Isn't this related to Walt's motivation for building the park from the start? He also affirmed that he didn't want Disneyland (meaning any Disney park) to become a museum.

Anyway you look at it, a lesser dependence on fossile fuel is a step in the right direction. The world of tomorrow awaits the positive changes that we can make today.

Actually the capacity is quite low, lower than star tours, buzz lightyear, space mountain, and its a small world and when you factor in the incredibly high labor needs (about 20 cast members) compared to something like buzz lightyear which only requires like 5 cast members there isnt anything economical about it.

Chevron's sponsorship does not make up for the ride's economic loss due to low capacity. It is my every wish that the company will continue to subsidize Autopia, but only if they don't stand in the way of progress. Advancements in transportation will contribute toward eventually eliminating the problems of congestion that plague us today. Hopefully, our decisions woll give kids much to look forward to when they grow up.

[Dreams Come True]

autopia..man..what a ride. Brings back good memories

[travelmom]

It is the ultimate kid thrill at DL. I can still see myself slowly snaking through the old queue, getting downright gleeful the closer we got. I see the same anticipation on the young ones today. Of course it needs to go to a new energy source, everything here does! Unfortunately, or fortunately, whichever fits your opinion, Disneyland can't afford to thumb its nose at a good sponser. I feel until we all stop using fossil fuels and change the laws accordingly, you can't blame Disneyland that cars run on gas. Meanwhile, its still the best fun a 7 year-old will have.

[scaeagles]

Well, I didn't start it, but I'll step in.

Auto companies are consumer driven. They give the people what they want. If there was a market for electric cars or some alternative, they would be produced.

The infrastructure is not there to support any massive change. Propane works great in cars and they can be converted for a couple hundred bucks to run on propane. Had a huge program here in Phoenix that even subsidized the purchase of the cars. However, in the entire Phoenix metro area, there are four stations were you can refuel. Not convenient enough. No one will invest in the infrastructure because it is too high risk and would require too much upfront.

Electric cars? Not powerful enough. Limited range. And how are those cars charged anyway - through fossil fuel burning electric power stations (well, 16% is nuclear, but you know what I mean).

Hydrogen cells? Maybe. But the exhaust is water vapor. I have read studies that say if the hydrogen fuel cell was widely used in metropolitan areas, weather patterns would change because of the immense amount of water vapor being pumped into the air.

When there is profit is another technology, that's when it will happen. OPEC says they have 80 years left at current consumption rates (speaking of oil). Other reports says there's anywhere from 10 to 120 years left, so who knows how much there really is. With new technologies, more oil can be extracted from places where it was previously inaccessable. The problem is organizations who will not allow tech to be tested in drilling in places like ANWR (where a whole 600 acres need to be developed) or the gulf of Mexico. The same organizations prevent any new nuclear plants from being built since the late 70s. They want hydroelectric plants, such as the Glen Canyon damn, such down and lake Powell drained so that some small fish won't struggle as badly.

There is no perfect power solution. Energy consumption wil have some sort of biproduct that must be dealt with and that will tick someone off. So we either stop consuming energy or deal with it.

I'm all for alternative and renewable sources. But the fact is that oil, for now, is the viable and best choice for the automobile and will continue to remain so until there is profit in another area. Not every scientist or inventor or mechanical engineer is in the back pocket of oil companies.

Now - stepping down of my soap box. Kids love autopia, hope it stays.

[Ride Warrior]

There is a big difference between electric cars and electric/gas powered hybrids. Granted, the e/g hybrid vehicles are in need of being more fully developed. But, some are already being marketed and are out on the road. To argue that the internal combustion engine is market driven, and that we should stick with it forever is not realistic in the least.

The same argument was given toward the end of the 19th Century (the horse and buggy days). "Those hoseless carriage doohinkies travel too slow, rattle to no end, and are always breaking down. They'll never catch on!" Horse drawn wagans were market driven, but in time gas and diesel powered vehicles took over. The same type of scenerio will occur with respect to the hybrid coming to the forefront. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Besides, we're not talking about full-scale vehicles. We're talking about little models designed to give people a glimpse of the future at a themepark. The ride could be further improved by making it trackless (not dependent on the guiderail), like TDL's Pooh vehicles and DLP's soon-to-come driving school (for families with small kids). Why some people are so bent on having the Autopia represent the present instead of the future is beyond me - especially in view of the fact that it is a Tomorrowland attraction. The land was designed to give us a vision at things to come, and not the market driven present. Just like the rest of Disneyland, it offers us an opportunity to escape from the commonplace and to experience and explore fresh, exciting new possibilities.

I hope that Disneyland will continue to keep its Autopia bad enough to debate the subject of improving it - so that it fits in with the forward-looking theme of Tomorrowland. I argue also out of a fervent desire for the ride to survive the future at the park.

[scaeagles]

To argue that the internal combustion engine is market driven, and that we should stick with it forever is not realistic in the least.

If this is in reference to my post, I am not arguing that. Please note my next to last paragraph -

I'm all for alternative and renewable sources. But the fact is that oil, for now, is the viable and best choice for the automobile and will continue to remain so until there is profit in another area. Not every scientist or inventor or mechanical engineer is in the back pocket of oil companies.

The automobile did not catch on until Henry Ford introduced the assembly line and made it profitable to build and sell cars. That's when they took over from the horse and buggy. There needs to be some sort of similar advancement or revelation before the internal combustion engine is replaced.

[Ride Warrior]

If this is in reference to my post, I am not arguing that. Please note my next to last paragraph -

I'm all for alternative and renewable sources. But the fact is that oil, for now, is the viable and best choice for the automobile and will continue to remain so until there is profit in another area. Not every scientist or inventor or mechanical engineer is in the back pocket of oil companies.

The automobile did not catch on until Henry Ford introduced the assembly line and made it profitable to build and sell cars. That's when they took over from the horse and buggy. There needs to be some sort of similar advancement or revelation before the internal combustion engine is replaced.

So what you are saying is that Disnryeyland's Autopia should remain a part of Present-Day Land, and not advance into Tomorrowland until the oil-based internal combustion engine is replaced by a vehicle that utilizes an alternative or reusable fuel source in the far off, distant future. As stated before, at the turn of the 19th Century the horse and buggy were gradually replaced by the gas powered automobile aka horseless carriage. The same situation exists with the hybrid today.

In order that the average person could afford a car, Henry Ford invented the system of assemblyline mass production. Up until that time, there was no market drivin demand for the automobile - only the rich could afford them. Ford was a businessman that was also a philanthropist at heart. For the most part it is only the wealthy that can afford today's hybrids. Eventually, though, they will become affordable for the average person, and better developed.

In the meantime, I agree that "oil, for now, is the viable and best choice for the automobile and will continue to remain so until there is profit in another area." Tomorrowland doesn't have to wait for the present to catch up with it in terms of a viable marketplace before Disney can create futuistic attractions. The advancement of the hybrid will pick up speed. Once again, Tomorrowland is about the future, not the present. It is a vision that families, the young and the old alike, can share and enjoy together.

[scaeagles]

Ridewarrior, I wasn't referring to what should happen with Autopia, I was referring to some postings regarding corruption of business and government leaders due to influence of oil companies.

Heck, I'd love to see some sort of new tech in autopia. That would be way cool. I just jumped in because of the political aspect this thread was taking on.

[Ride Warrior]

Ridewarrior, I wasn't referring to what should happen with Autopia, I was referring to some postings regarding corruption of business and government leaders due to influence of oil companies.

Heck, I'd love to see some sort of new tech in autopia. That would be way cool. I just jumped in because of the political aspect this thread was taking on.

Great! Finally, we're of like accord. Politics be damned! Autopia will have to be updated at some point, if it is to survive in the long run.

[ModHatter]

You know, I have to say, I've avoided this one because I know the genera consensus, but... EPCOT presented a model city where residents would get around almost exclusively by Monorail and full-sized PeopleMovers. So I think the Autopia would be one of the first things to fall under Walt's wish for Disneyland to never be finished. At least go back to using the Fantasyland Autopia entrance and admit that, like the Matterhorn, it really needs to find a new home.

Is driving really the future? Maybe a very short-sighted one. But is that what we want for our future? Or do we really want to have some higher goals, something to really make today's kids savor the challenge of the future. I mean, really, between poor air quality and the depletion of the ozone, America's auto obsession is fairly unhealthy. And driving is one of the top killers of America's youth. 5000 teenagers die every year from driving accidents. Do we really need to keep perpetuating this image that driving is fun?

I don't think Disneyland has to be this PC place. Most of the PC things they have done, I thought were over the top. Just the same, especially when you have a land like Tomorrowland which is supposed to be showing us a bright shining model of what the future can be, I don't think that "because kids love it" is adequate reason tp keep Autopia as it exists now. After all, even if it did have a great capacity, think of the kind of capacity that much land SHOULD be capable of. You could easily have a pre-merge-sized Autopia layout AND an E ticket in the same amount of space. Plus MBC too.

This is really the prime example of Disneyland not being a museum, but a place of progress, of positive improvement. Because Autopia has a LOT of room for improvement.

[Ride Warrior]

Either theme the Autopia to the future. or else place the entrance back in Fantasyland as ModHatter has suggested. Either way is fine with me. Just don't leave it in the Twilight Zone. DCA already has one,

[travelmom]

I remember wondering why they didn't use that side when they redesigned it. The freeway had represented the present for much longer than it was futuristic, therfore, more suited to Fantasyland anyway.