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  1. #646

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Hatter View Post
    If it is the layerd method. Wouldn't the headless pic have to be on the top (front)? If it wasn't, then wouldn't you see the head the whole time?
    Nope. Do you see the scrim ceiling in the stretchroom when the upper loft is lit? Not very much, you don't. You see through it.

    I have to correct my explanation a bit. Checked my notes again. The bank of LED lights may actually be behind the bottom painting, not in front of it. So the "meat" in the sandwich may be misplaced in my analogy. The headless painting is technically backlit (although with LEDs they may almost be enmeshed into the painting, I don't know.

    So: lit from the front, you see top layer (normal), lit from the back, you see bottom layer (headless), and the two layers are very close to each other and the switching back-and-forth of the lighting is extremely sophisticated so that you can't detect the change other than seeing the differences between the two paintings, both of which are on a sophisticated (probably specially designed) form of scrim-like material.

    Again, FWIW.

  2. #647

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    Incidentally, this explains why all flash pictures of the attic portraits show the husbands with their heads. The top layer is being illuminated by the flash, and that layer has the heads. Photos that show the headless state are always ones that have been taken using the attic's own lighting, since it is only the portraits' backlighting that enables this underlying layer to be seen.

  3. #648

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Incidentally, this explains why all flash pictures of the attic portraits show the husbands with their heads.
    Those who take flash pictures in the attic are doomed to haunt the mansion for all eternity. Miscreants! Bwahahaha!

    Oh, and I don't remember seeing any sammiches in the attic portraits. White or wheat? Can you only see the sammiches with flash?
    Far from the frenzy of the frantic world above.

  4. #649

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    Dan, thanks for that explanation on the attic portraits! I never quite understood it until now..

    Now I'm hungry...
    *off to go make a sandwich*
    Last edited by leotas child; 04-25-2007 at 12:23 PM. Reason: spelling error

  5. #650

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    As some of you may or may not know, a couple spirits were taken out due to the new lighting effect that required an "after" stage that illuminated from behind the "before" stage (explained by HBG2). In other words, April/December was replaced by Master Gracey because his bones would be much more noticable then some miniscule gray hairs and wrinkles. Then there's the panther lady.......just imagine trying to make a blank panther shine from behind a portrait of a woman dressed in white. Since it would probably be too much trouble to decide and paint a completely new piece, imagineers just inverted the colors. Now she can no longer be known as the "Panther Lady" but as "Tigress, Queen of all Stripped Enigmas"!

    This is a link to Doombuggies.com that shows an animated clip of the Panther Lady (scroll down a bit):
    http://www.doombuggies.com/secrets_load.htm

    And these are pictures of the new-er portrait (from davelandweb.com):


    (notice that it hard to capture the image because a. It only appears for a fraction of a second and b. it seems blurry since you're able to see the top layer which never really disappears...)

  6. #651

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chapter13 View Post
    Queen of all Stripped Enigmas
    Don't you wish.

  7. #652

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    This evening's topic, HM fans is...music.

    In a thread somewhere that contrasted HM with Phantom Manor, I mentioned briefly that HM's music is you-hear-what-you-see music. That is, you actually "see" the sources of the music. Since making that observation, it occurs to me that the HM is almost unique in this.

    Other Disney attractions with music (which is almost all of them), have orchestral (or at least ensemble) accompaniment coming out of thin air, like a movie soundtrack. Even roller coasters are starting to go this route. But from the '55 dark rides on through the Tiki Room, IASW, POTC, Indy, etc., you get phantom orchestras providing background music.

    Ironically, the only ride that focuses on dead people and phantoms adheres rigidly to a "realistic" musical setting, and everything you hear is "live." You hear the strains of a real pipe organ playing somewhere in the house. When you get to the ballroom, you see that organ. The "music" of the portrait corridor and load area is "only the wind" (although the tubular bells must be tagged as an exception here; one instance of breaking the rules). Madame Leota summons the spirits to play various instruments, and there they are floating around and (supposedly) producing the unearthly music you hear. The ballroom soundtrack has an organ playing and nothing more. You hear a piano in the attic. There it is. You hear a small ensemble, a band, playing in the graveyard, and there they are.

    The fact that there's more sound going on in the graveyard than those five could possibly provide is not really an exception, in my book, but a typical example of audience expectations of the time. You watch old TV and movies, and today we laugh that a group of four guys pawing the air unconvincingly in front of some instruments while a 10-piece band is playing on the soundtrack is supposed to register as believable. Well, back then it was. People are more sophisticated now and demand much better faking than they did in the 60's. As far as concept is concerned, it's still a case of, "I hear a band; oh look, there's a band," and you're not supposed to scrutinize too hard.

    Phantom Manor threw this out the window, of course. In doing so, it made its version of the HM just like all the other Disney attractions, with a simulated movie soundtrack completely divorced from reality. There is no orchestra and choir following you around. It's all a well-accepted convention, and few people give it a second thought.

    Sooo.....why do you suppose the Haunted Mansion adopted this unusual musical concept?

    (I was going to say "unique" instead of "unusual," except that I thought of one Disney attraction that also has music, but only the music produced by instrumentation actually present. It's the only parallel to the HM I can think of. For extra credit, name that attraction!)

  8. #653

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    Name that attraction...Hmm

    Country Bear Jamboree & America Sings would have fit the bill.

    Small World has musicians.
    Splash mountain shows animals playing a stringed instrument.
    Snow White has the Dwarves playing a band.
    Pirates have a 3 person band.

    Not sure if that was the question, but maybe that could be one of the answers.

    Chad

  9. #654

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    Name that attraction...Hmm

    Country Bear Jamboree & America Sings would have fit the bill.

    Small World has musicians.
    Splash mountain shows animals playing a stringed instrument.
    Snow White has the Dwarves playing a band.
    Pirates have a 3 person band.
    CBJ possibly. But as I recall, there's musical accompaniment to some of the numbers that isn't supposed to be coming from the house band. When those chick bears are singing "California Girls Bears," who's playing the drums, etc? But I admit that I can't remember enough of the show to be sure. America Sings? Nope. There's an organ playing while these vultures are singing out in the desert, to cite just one example. POTC? Who's playing those peppy horns and flutes in the grotto? Small World has full orchestration non-stop all through.

    No, in order to test this thing, you have to be a hardnosed literalist: if you hear it, it should be there for you to see. I really do wonder why the HM chose to go with such an unusual approach here.

  10. #655

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    it is creepier that was......since you can see where the music is coming from....but not exactly who is making it.....but if it was a full orc. soundtrack.....it would have an overall diffrent feeling....Phantom makes you feel like you are in a movie...but HM makes it feel like your in a real haunted mansion

  11. #656

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    My guess is that the music totally sets the tone in the attraction where I'm not sure other attractions really do as much as HM. It has to have different sets to set the tone of the scene. I don't think any ride has that.
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  12. #657

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    I think the "hear it, therefore see it" approach was used to make the mansion credible and therefore that more creepy. If we heard music that we know is not coming from something real but simply from a speaker, we would dismiss what we see as not real either. True, it is illogical that ghosts can play organs, trumpets, flutes, and everything else. But that is following the "rules" of the fantasy. We see the graveyard band, and we hear it too. Music emanating from no conceivable source breaks the rule.

    Yes the mansion is filled with the "unearthly," but we have to believe in it first. Give the ghosts instruments, and they will play them for you.

  13. #658

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    CBJ possibly. But as I recall, there's musical accompaniment to some of the numbers that isn't supposed to be coming from the house band. When those chick bears are singing "California Girls Bears," who's playing the drums, etc? But I admit that I can't remember enough of the show to be sure. America Sings? Nope. There's an organ playing while these vultures are singing out in the desert, to cite just one example. POTC? Who's playing those peppy horns and flutes in the grotto? Small World has full orchestration non-stop all through.

    No, in order to test this thing, you have to be a hardnosed literalist: if you hear it, it should be there for you to see. I really do wonder why the HM chose to go with such an unusual approach here.

    Ok, I get it now. In CBJ the 5 Bear Rugs played their own music, but other songs had random music in the background. Good question though.

    Chad

  14. #659

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    I think you all will know which attraction I'm referring to as soon as you think of it. Filled with music, but all coming from instrumentation that is physically present in the ride. There's no ambiguity about it, no cheating with extra tracks.

  15. #660

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    Re: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?

    How about the penguins in Muppet 3D??


    Chad

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