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  1. #31

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    I won't mind if it's overcrowded or even at DCA - - so long as they use the Sherman Bros. "Wonderful World of Color" theme song prominently in the show.

    If not, I'll feel like a jilted lover and might not even go.

  2. #32

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Quote Originally Posted by Circarama View Post
    Do you actually believe that Steve Davidson (aka Creative Talent) has enough clout to tear out all of the concrete around Paradise Pier and rebuild it with a new terraced viewing area? Because that's what would need to be done to improve viewing for an as-of-yet unproven fireworks show. Of course he doesn't... he's a fireworks show designer.
    Exactly my point! You and I agree more on this than we may realize. Mr. Davison doesn't have that clout, so why would park management in Anaheim have that clout?

    Mr. Davison should realize the canvas he has been given to work with beforehand. And why should he do that? Because no one who actually works in DCA has the clout to rip out the concrete and start again. That power lies solely in Burbank, not in the back office of Maliburitos or with the Sun Wheel shift supervisor. TDA executives can't even do anything without begging Burbank for more money to be included in a future fiscal year budget.

    "Management" in the parks has no power to control the physical infrastructure of the parks. They can only play the cards they are dealt with, and Davision dealt them a lousy hand by designing a fireworks show you need to be in the Hub to enjoy.

    And it's useless to blame the executives that designed DCA to begin with. They have all resigned suddenly to spend more time with their family, or resigned less suddenly to pursue a career with The Gap only to be fired from that position a few years later. Pressler, Harriss, Braverman, etc. have all left Disney and are not welcome back. They made Paradise Pier the way it is, but they don't give a rats behind about it anymore, so let the poor shmucks from Boise who can't see the show deal with it.

    The college freshmen flashlight wavers that will surround Paradise Bay in '09 will report to college seniors. The seniors will report to 26 year old junior managers. The junior managers report to 30 year old managers, who report to senior managers who still don't have enough clout to order anything more substantial than a new desk chair for the office behind Maliboomer. None of those people who actually work in the park, hourly or salaried, have any ability to change the physical structure of the park.

    Even TDA executives would have to jump through hoops to get that kind of capital approved, and it would take three years to get it done. How long have they been talking about Placemaking without any actual work?

    I have no doubt they will need to undergo a massive rework of the Paradise Bay area if this World of Color show is any good. With how flat the viewing area is, it will simply have to. But that's a project that will take another year or two to complete after the show debuts, assuming it gets put on a fast track.

    Since DCA was so poorly designed and thought out in the first place, why not try to design a lagoon show that doesn't require you to be up along the railing to see it? Do something with balloons or cable highwire acts or aerial tricks or something. But at this stage in the development I would hope Mr. Davison is thinking of those options. It seems to me the artist has a responsibility to his audience to fully accept the canvas he has been given to work with.

    On a side note, I was extremely impressed with the lagoon viewing at Tokyo DisneySea! There's a park where massive amounts of terraced viewing areas were built in to the entire perimeter of the lagoon that offered easy and ample viewing areas for the night lagoon show there. Never once did we not find a great view 20 minutes before show time. And yet all of those terraces and viewing platforms blend seamlessly into the architecture and design of the various lagoon areas during the day. Whether a New York wharf or an Italian harbor or a volcanic mountain or a fancy hotel cocktail lounge, the terraced viewing around the DisneySea lagoon was expertly and purposefully integrated into the landscape and architecture. Bravo Tokyo Disney Resort! Clearly the concept of audience viewing was fully thought through from the earliest design phases of that amazing new Disney park.

    Since DCA is at the opposite end of that design spectrum and in respect to its customers, the artists behind creating entertainment in the lagoon need to realize they are working with an inferior canvas. The end result will be a dozen threads on this message board in June, 2009 blaming 8 dollar an hour flashlight wavers for not being able to find a good spot to see the show. That's not fair to the flashlight wavers. Mr. Davison needs to realize what he's working with here.
    Last edited by TP2000; 03-11-2007 at 05:53 PM.

  3. #33

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Steve is a Creative Director, and now with his new post- vice president of parades and spectaculars. It is his job to lead the creative team in creating the BEST possible entertainment concepts and designs that they are capable of doing. And seeing how good he actually is at this job, he knows what he is doing.

    You are right, sometimes the "stage" within the parks, whether it be a parade route, a lagoon, a theatre, or the skies themselves, does not always have the best infrastructure. That is simply a challenge that has to be worked around.

    Here is my question- would you rather see an 'ok.' show, nice but not all that great because the creative director decided to scale it down because he knew the surrounding areas of the "stage" where not exactly made to handle a lot of people? so thus he creates an inferior product just so the audience area doesn't get all that packed because it was already poorly designed?
    Or, does the creative director create the absolute best possible show imaginable, pushing the limits and creating something that everyone in the park just has to see at the end of their day? And if that show is successful enough, corporate management then deems it necessary and practical to spend the capital to invest in making the surrounding area (the "audience" area if you will) into a proper viewing area with the proper infrastructure?

    Honestly, this situation is not as big of a deal as many seem to be making it out to be. We have seen what Disney did with the success of Fantasmic, so it would make sense for them to do so again (since they did not plan accordingly in the first place). The situation with the hub is yet a bit different, and I can see where a hub-centric show may not have been the best plan. But reconfiguring the outside of the lagoon makes sense as they have done it before.

    And truthfully, I am sure Steve is a pretty smart guy and has already thought of all of these things. I pretty sure is already ten steps ahead of us as he has been doing this for over 25 years or so.
    Last edited by tcsnwhite; 03-11-2007 at 08:40 PM.

  4. #34

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Quote Originally Posted by tcsnwhite View Post
    Here is my question- would you rather see an 'ok.' show, nice but not all that great because the creative director decided to scale it down because he knew the surrounding areas of the "stage" where not exactly made to handle a lot of people? so thus he creates an inferior product just so the audience area doesn't get all that packed because it was already poorly designed?
    Or, does the creative director create the absolute best possible show imaginable, pushing the limits and creating something that everyone in the park just has to see at the end of their day? And if that show is successful enough, corporate management then deems it necessary and practical to spend the capital to invest in making the surrounding area (the "audience" area if you will) into a proper viewing area with the proper infrastructure?
    Thank you.
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  5. #35

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSkyDriveBy View Post
    And given the disastrous use of pyrotechnics in LuminAria, I have serious doubts about any pyro use in the DCA lagoon that won't end up overwhelming at least one-third of the crowd with tons of toxic smoke.
    There have been significant improvements made in fireworks launching that incorporate C02 as a propellant to launch the fireworks into the sky, thus eliminating a pyrotechnic-propelled shell.

    The advent of these new launching mechanisms not only produce less air pollution, they also produce significantly less smoke than their old-school counterparts.

    I'm pretty sure they weren't using CO2 for launching fireworks in 2001 when they opened DCA. And, if they were to use the new C02 launching mechanism's in Paradise Pier, it would eliminate ground level smoke altogether.
    Charlie
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  6. #36

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Quote Originally Posted by tcsnwhite View Post
    The situation with the hub is yet a bit different, and I can see where a hub-centric show may not have been the best plan. But reconfiguring the outside of the lagoon makes sense as they have done it before......

    And truthfully, I am sure Steve is a pretty smart guy and has already thought of all of these things. I pretty sure is already ten steps ahead of us as he has been doing this for over 25 years or so.
    I'm confused. Either Steve Davison made decisions that "may not have been the best plan" to make a Hub-centric fireworks show for a Hub that is very small. Or he is a smart guy who is already "ten steps ahead of us as he has been doing this for over 25 years". Which is it here?

    I'm just not looking forward to all of the crabby posts on the Internet 18 months from now about not being able to see the lagoon show without camping out for four hours, and how the crowd control CM's are rude and pushy and yelled at my darling daughter who stood in the wrong spot.

    It just seems to me we are so quick to blame the crowd control CM's and their management who have no control over the situation, and yet we give the artistic designers a free pass to create whatever show they want to with little thought of the canvas they are working on.

    Either Davision is a genius who has already thought of all of these issues, or he makes some poor design decisions that are not customer-friendly. But he can't be both at the same time.
    Last edited by TP2000; 03-11-2007 at 10:39 PM.

  7. #37

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Wasn't Remember... Dreams Come True cut down to be more hub centric?

    I do agree that posts complaining about the Cast Members and staging of the first year of the show, if well done, will come. However, I don't think it will take years to get terraced viewing, like was done for Fantasmic!, if the show proves to be a success.

  8. #38

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    ^^well sure he can. ;P

    Steve is human, the man will make mistakes. period. But, he is also an artist, and coming from one who is also an artist, the vision can at times override anything else.
    Truthfully, I don't know the situation. Honestly, I am just using my own logic and I'm guessing that Steve has thought out these things before hand. Now, whether or not he can actually do anything about them is the question. As was said before, Steve is in charge of the concept and design and overall vision. As much as he may want to reconfigure audience areas for better viewing, they could be out of his hands. For all we know, he may be pushing for a reconfiguration of the area surrounding the lagoon. I honestly though do not think it is his decision in the end. Which brings me back to the question, what kind of show do want? One that is just nice, or one that will make you want to come back and see it time and time again?

    As for the hub based fireworks shows, that is just a choice he made. Honestly I don't know how he feels about it, but like I said, sometimes an artist with a great vision will just put up with whatever obstacles may be in the way when trying to make that vision come to life. Sometimes that can get you in a bit of trouble, but in the end, it's whatever the creative director deems most important is that which will come first. Obviously for Steve regarding Remember, it was creating the best possible show he could. And from what I had heard, he almost didn't get to make that show.

    If you are worried about the posts that will come from possible crowd control issues, well, it is probably something that is just going to be unavoidable for a while, unless they redo the surrounding area as they redo the lagoon itself. If you are worried about those post, and I mean this in the nicest way possible- don't read them.

    In the end, I am more concerned with the content of the show, and Steve being able to bring his vision to life with proper support and funding. Better audience viewing will most likely come, so beating that horse to death doesn't make sense anymore.
    Last edited by tcsnwhite; 03-11-2007 at 10:57 PM.

  9. #39

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Quote Originally Posted by TP2000 View Post
    Like expanding the size of Disneyland's Central Plaza by 50%? What else can they do if Mr. Davison is going to make a show designed to be seen from a space only capable of comfortably holding 5,000 people, knowing full well Disneyland on a Saturday night will have 40,000 people in attendance?

    As for DCA, I was walking around Paradise Bay last week. With the exception of the small amphitheater across from Golden Dreams that can hold about 1,000 people, that entire piece of property is flat as a board. Flat, flat, flat. How do you get 10,000 people into that area when only the people standing directly along the railings will be able to see the water?

    It wasn't a problem for LuminAria because frankly there was never enough people in attendance for that to create much of a crowd. But if World of Color is going to be as big and lush and exciting as it needs to be to compete with Fantasmic! then how does Mr. Davison propose to allow his audience to see his work?

    I think Mr. Davison is more responsible for the audience sightline issue than Cal State Fullerton college kids waving flashlights for 8 bucks an hour are.

    not to worry TP2000.


    First of all when luminaria showed the crowds were big enough to fill all side of the lagoon eventhough the show was never publicly advertised.


    The plans are to reconfigure the north side of the lagoon and add multi layer viewing area similiar to NOS viewing area of fantasmic. There was also talk of maybe even lowering parts of the north lagoon area so that the viewing areas are closer to water level. the way the lagoon is built now the northenr half is higher abover water level then other parts of the lagoons edges.

  10. #40

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    so much complaining already before the show even gets approved.

    The question of vieiwng is being looked t and once the project is approved construction will start both in the lagoon and tits parameter viewing areas.

    Fantasmic viewing area is actually smaller than the lagoons viewing areas and where also flat walkways before fantasmic premiered. Due to the large crowds changes had to be made.

    the same will be happening to DCA's viewing areas. the veiwing areas will be incorporated into the evolving change and look of the parks future placemaking.

    Any entertainment venue that Disney buitls will always have issues with crowds and sitelines. The disneyland resort parks do not have the advantage of large wasted spaces like Epcot to be incorporated for viewing oppurtunities for future shows.


    Every show that gets built brings in diferent obstacles that a previous show would not have caused.


    Just like every guest will not get a chance to ride all of the attractions in Disneyland, not everyguest will get a chance to see the show.
    that is why there are there things to do while the show is being performed.

    besides, there is still the possibility that if the show is extremely popular more than one performance can be done on busy days.

  11. #41

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    not to worry TP2000.


    First of all when luminaria showed the crowds were big enough to fill all side of the lagoon eventhough the show was never publicly advertised.


    The plans are to reconfigure the north side of the lagoon and add multi layer viewing area similiar to NOS viewing area of fantasmic. There was also talk of maybe even lowering parts of the north lagoon area so that the viewing areas are closer to water level. the way the lagoon is built now the northenr half is higher abover water level then other parts of the lagoons edges.
    I really hope that the ocean at D.C.A. still looks like an ocean after all this. I absolutely despised that island that was created for "LuminAria".

    One of my biggest complaints about the Entertainment department is that it is more than willing to reconfigure the Disneyland stage in order to suit a single production on that stage.

    All of Disneyland is the stage, and the daylong Disneyland show is a single production on that stage. So, that fact means that, for example, all the stage lights on Main Street, U.S.A. need to retract when not in use and the "Fantasmic!" technicians and their work need to remain invisible in Frontierland before and after the pageant, itself.

    Entertainment divorces itself and its productions from the whole Disneyland show much too often. And, the department is too willing to degrade the Disneyland show in order to suit said department's purposes.

    I'd prefer grandstands of some sort near the amphitheatre instead of a reconfiguration of the carefully-designed pier and shore that makes one believe that he or she is at the ocean rather than a few hundred feet from Katella Avenue.

  12. #42

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    >>I'd prefer grandstands of some sort near the amphitheatre instead of a reconfiguration of the carefully-designed pier and shore that makes one believe that he or she is at the ocean rather than a few hundred feet from Katella Avenue.<<

    When did they carefully design the pier and shore to make me believe I was by the ocean instead of a few feet off Katella? I missed this rehab.

    Let's all sing: "Under the powerlines.... down by the sea-ee-ee. I can't see Coco's until my baby points it out to me."

  13. #43

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones View Post
    >>I'd prefer grandstands of some sort near the amphitheatre instead of a reconfiguration of the carefully-designed pier and shore that makes one believe that he or she is at the ocean rather than a few hundred feet from Katella Avenue.<<

    When did they carefully design the pier and shore to make me believe I was by the ocean instead of a few feet off Katella? I missed this rehab.

    Let's all sing: "Under the powerlines.... down by the sea-ee-ee. I can't see Coco's until my baby points it out to me."
    I'm really only referring to the way that the water is designed.

    When I first learned of the Paradise Pier project, I wondered how the designers would ever be able to create a convincing ocean. Then, when I first took walkthroughs of the construction site, I was immediately struck by just how believable the effect had been realized.

    The tidal pool looks smashing, and so do the bridges and piers that cross it. I love the way that the variety of elevations makes each perspective around the water work to keep the eye from realizing that Paradise Bay is a closed body of water. It's really quite impressive when you think about it.

    While D.C.A., in general, suffers from severely-restricted budgets, many of the people responsible for certain aspects of the project are quite talented. And, the configuration of Paradise Bay is a testament to the skills of these Imagineers. It would be a shame for the body of water to ever lose its believability as an ocean.

  14. #44

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Well, that bird poo island added for that other show did spoil whatever illusion the bay commanded. I hope they fix the problem this time!

  15. #45

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    Re: Steve Davison's Wonderful World of Color

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    I really hope that the ocean at D.C.A. still looks like an ocean after all this. I absolutely despised that island that was created for "LuminAria".
    When were you last at DCA?

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