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  1. #16

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    They have tried this and it doesn't work. Alien Encounter frightened children and separated them (strapped down) from their parents - - a cruel dystopian future if ever there was one.

    Also Tomorrowland '98 in its rusty, catpoo colors, with rotting, abandoned rides and dreary agrifuture plantings was a reflection of global corporate madness gone awry, as dystopian a future (or present reality) as one could get - - and it too was rejected by the public.

    Disneyland thematically is about Walt Disney himself -- the man was a utopian optimistic futurist and that's what we need in Anaheim. We need hope, not trendy gloom. Reassurance, not social relevance.

    "There's a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow shining at the end of every day."

    "Tomorrow is just a dream away."

  2. #17

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    Although dystopia work in films, not necessarily so in theme park like Disneyland. But it's good you looked into something different and trying it out.

    "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally!" -Back to the Future

    "With this place, I wanted to give them something real, something that wasn't an illusion, something they could see and touch. An aim devoid of merit."
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  3. #18

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    ^ I never saw Alien Encounter so I can't comment on it.

    Keep in mind, I'm not talking about a redo or rethink of all of TL. I'm talking about one ride, or more likely one portion of one ride. And I am NOT suggesting that disney try to be hip and edgy. That fails miserably. Disney (especially the studios) needs to get back in touch with its corny and sentimental roots in a big way.

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones View Post
    We need hope, not trendy gloom. Reassurance, not social relevance.
    You may be right. I just wish that TL would be about tomorrow again. If they're going to provide us with a Pollyanna future, at least provide us with that! Right now they're giving us nothing in the "future dept."
    Last edited by RenMan; 03-24-2007 at 11:26 AM. Reason: addition

  4. #19

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    Quote Originally Posted by filmfreak11 View Post
    Although dystopia work in films, not necessarily so in theme park like Disneyland. But it's good you looked into something different and trying it out.
    You're probably right.

  5. #20

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    I think we should turn it into an apple computer store

  6. #21

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    Although I disagree with your assumption that the Imagineers have a problem with designing stuff for Tomorrowland, I think your assesment of why Tomorrowland is losing it's original intent is spot on.

    To take it futher, the technology that our society is looking at right now as "improving our life" is x-rays that invade your privacy at the airport, advanced bomb detection, ankle bracelets that keep pedophiles away from schools (by tracing their location), programs that log your keystrokes so the boss knows what you're doing all day, etc. A lot of where technology is heading are ways to keep us "safe." These do not make for interesting attractions as all they do is remind us of all of the bad things that we have to be "protected" from. And also, obviously invading our privacy.

    On the lighter side, we have stem cell research, which is so politcially charged, there is no way for Diseny to make an exhibit or attraction about it, or the new iPhone that is your PDA, cell phone, mp3 player, and instant messanger, all in one device. And I can just see how that would make for a fantastic corporate commercial. Hall of Aluminum anyone?
    "If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? " - Alice

    "If his brain's ran down, how can he talk?" - Jack Pumpkinhead
    "It happens to people all the time, Jack." - Dorothy

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  7. #22

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Chaney View Post
    I have never bought into the idea that Tomorrowland is a huge problem for the imagineers because the future keeps catching up with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnn in Wndrlnd View Post
    Although I disagree with your assumption that the Imagineers have a problem with designing stuff for Tomorrowland, I think your assesment of why Tomorrowland is losing it's original intent is spot on.
    Interesting. If WDI isn't finding Tomorrowland problematic, can anyone explain to me why on earth we got TL '98? I think the answer is simple. In presenting "the tomorrow that never was", they sidestep the need to redesign the land every ten years to keep it "currently futuristic." Combine that with a culture that's less optimistic and prefers a retro-nostalgic look backwards to a genuine look forwards, and you've got a problem for WDI.

  8. #23

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    Ok...here is what needs to be done with Innoventions.

    We gather all the worlds largest balls of twine and put them all in the middle. We then form a merry-go-round sort of walkway that constantly revolves around the twine balls.

    I drew up a diagram:



    The middle red dot is where the twine balls would be displayed. The outer red is the building and the white in the middle is where the revolving walkway would be.

    Could you imagine? All of the worlds largest balls of twine all in one place!
    What an idiot....

    Yeah, I do that Twitter thing.


  9. #24

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnn in Wndrlnd View Post
    To take it futher, the technology that our society is looking at right now as "improving our life" is x-rays that invade your privacy at the airport, advanced bomb detection, ankle bracelets that keep pedophiles away from schools (by tracing their location), programs that log your keystrokes so the boss knows what you're doing all day, etc. A lot of where technology is heading are ways to keep us "safe." These do not make for interesting attractions as all they do is remind us of all of the bad things that we have to be "protected" from. And also, obviously invading our privacy.
    I've thought about this too. There seems to be more scary technology on the horizon today. But you see, these feed into my dystopian theme so beautifully!!

    You know, the main problem with my idea is its very negativity. It's not Disney-like, and as such doesn't belong in the park. If, however, there were a sufficiently powerful antidote at the end of the ride, in the form of a positive, hopeful ending, it would fit the classic conflict-resolution style of so many Disney films...
    Last edited by RenMan; 03-24-2007 at 02:01 PM. Reason: addendum

  10. #25

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    Quote Originally Posted by RenMan View Post
    Interesting. If WDI isn't finding Tomorrowland problematic, can anyone explain to me why on earth we got TL '98? I think the answer is simple. In presenting "the tomorrow that never was", they sidestep the need to redesign the land every ten years to keep it "currently futuristic." Combine that with a culture that's less optimistic and prefers a retro-nostalgic look backwards to a genuine look forwards, and you've got a problem for WDI.
    Though it sounds good in theory, the biggest problem with "the tomorrow that never was" is the fact that... well... it never was. Who can relate to it? There are a lot of tomorrows that never were. How can you present just one version and expect everyone to relate?

    The real failure of TL98 was despite the lip service given to a "new direction" aimed at The Future That Never Was... nothing changed except the paint job. Same submarines, same Autopia, same Space Mountain, same rocket ride (except moved to a less thrilling position) same Star Tours, one new ride that didn't work out. And Innoventions: not at all about the future that never was nor even about the future at all. A trade show displaying The Present. Mostly stuff you can buy and play with at home.

    And the paint job was ugly.

    Of course, the same point could be made about TL68. That was a singlular version of a future that might be. The difference was that it was a shared vision. It mimicked everything we were all being told outside of Disneyland. Disney just made it corporeal for us. Everyone could relate.

    I think you have answered your own question in the statement I've put in bold above. Neither Disney nor anyone else can accurately predict the future. The best we can hope for is a little whimsical speculation. Make it fun and people will come. The 1968 vision of the future fits the bill. Instead of a dark and brooding vision of The Future That Never Was... how about a quirky and fun vision of The Future We All Hoped We'd Get.
    "Yesterday, a man walked up to me and said, 'Isn't it a shame that Walt Disney couldn't be here to see this?' and I said, "He did see this, that's why it's here."
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  11. #26

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Perfect! We can put this where HISTA is now. We can put an AA Al Gore in there and have him give a speech like with Lincoln!
    Maybe HISTO? Honey, I Shrunk the Ozone? Or we could keep the same anagram, and replace "Audience" with "Atmosphere"?

  12. #27

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    I agree that Innoventions definately needs a makeover. If they absolutely need to have a sponser, I'd rather them have a phone company and make another Spaceship Earth here at Disneyland than a pointless outdated software ad. Spaceship Earth at least had the theme of human communication and it's progression. It followed TL's original intent of being entertaining and inspiring. Innoventions is neither. It either needs to showcase more distant and progressive technology or turn it into Spaceship Earth.

    I don't think your idea is necessarily too dark for Disneyland considering some of the other attractions there. I just would rather come to TL for corny, unrealistic inspiration, not a real life lesson in socio-economics. TL will always be more of a Star Trek vision than a BladeRunner vision. People come to Disneyland for that kind of escape. I'll read Huxley and Orwell on my own time, but TL needs to keep being about ideas, not consequences.

    I did like your idea about spaceship propulsion. Neither practical or realistic any time soon, but fun enough to get kids and adults interested in something scientific. Who wants to be cynical when you can think about flying a spaceship?

    Anyway if you're having a difficult time suspending disbelief in TL, how are you even managing to enjoy the rest of the park?

  13. #28

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    Re: What to do with Innoventions? Dystopia!

    Quote Originally Posted by cerpin taxt View Post
    I'll read Huxley and Orwell on my own time, but TL needs to keep being about ideas, not consequences.
    Well said.

    OK, then, bring on the ideas, WDI! Let's have an updated Horizons ride or FTL space travel. Anything!

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