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  1. #1

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    The era of "No Originality"?

    Okay, I'm everyone has already come to this conclussion already and I'm stating the obvious here. But it seems like ever since the TL refurb in 98 (that bombed horribly) that the Disney Execs and Imagineers have completely lost any imagination or passion when it comes to new attractions or rides. Let's take a look at the attractions over the last couple years.

    DCA- Mostly overglorified carny rides you can find anywhere else. If not that, they were clones of WDW rides. The only real noteworthy somewhat original ride is "Soaring", and that's still a simulator.

    MAWP- Everyone knows the flop that was "The Many Adventures Of Winnie The Pooh", which is just a clone anyways. A HORRIBLE one at that.

    TOT: A clone of a WDW ride.

    BLAB: A clone

    Nemo Subs- Just a re-do of an old attraction, probably just going to add Nemo characters and that will be all.

    People Mover- Just a re-do

    Monsters Inc.- Now I'll admit that this is actually original and not a clone. But still it's just a dark ride and it just seems like it's another ride to make money off Pixar movies and characters.

    Now what happened to AA in rides? what happened to coming up with original ideas for rides instead of just "let's make this a dark ride" or "let's send in a clone from WDW" or "Let's just bring back this ride and add a pixar character"?
    I mean seriously, it is getting semi ridiculous on how lazy Disney has gotten with their "ideas".

    And I know that we got a great new Prez coming in named Matt, but it's going to take more than just him. The whole management needs to be overhauled and replaced with people who just aren't out to make money, it needs to be replaced with people who actually "care" about the traditions and values the park is based on not about making new stores. Also, they need Imagineers who aren't going to CUT CORNERS becasue a task is too diffucult. Pooh wouldn't have been crappy, if the people building it and transporting it were putting a hundred and ten percent into it, same goes for DCA and other flops within the park.

    I'm sorry to be going off on a rant but I want to see a return to tradition in the resort. More rides that feature AA, because those are the most popular rides. More rides that are based on a original concept not on what has been done before or based off a pixar character. I mean the possibilities for new attractions are endless, I know alot of people on these boards have already come up with Disney worthy ride ideas that are original. So with we can come up with original ideas for attractions for the park, why can't management and Imagineers do so as well?

  2. #2

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    I 1000% agree with you, THE BOB. You have matched my feelings perfectly. Imagineering is totally dulled out now, and they've lost all creativity. I couldn't agree more. Nice rant.

  3. #3

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    CM friend of mine working in the music end of the Disney Co, stated that Disney aren't going after the "creative" people anymore, and are ok with "creative" people leaving for other jobs. Now that's sad.


    This has been a Filmways presentation dahling.

  4. #4

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    I like what they've built, and I don't mind clones at all. If it weren't for clones, DL wouldn't have Space Mountain (not a direct clone, but neither is Tower of Terror). Or any of a number of other rides I love. I think some people like to complain too much...the things planned are "just replacements" for rides that "just" need replacing, and they will be effective refurbishments. You would be hard up to find any place in Disneyland where a new attraction would not replace an old one. That is part of the whole "being 50 years old" thing. Disneyland gets a little much needed plastic surgery/botox.
    -Kyle, Member of the DCA Lovers Alliance
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrateslife4me84
    I like what they've built, and I don't mind clones at all. If it weren't for clones, DL wouldn't have Space Mountain (not a direct clone, but neither is Tower of Terror). Or any of a number of other rides I love. I think some people like to complain too much...the things planned are "just replacements" for rides that "just" need replacing, and they will be effective refurbishments. You would be hard up to find any place in Disneyland where a new attraction would not replace an old one. That is part of the whole "being 50 years old" thing. Disneyland gets a little much needed plastic surgery/botox.
    I agree with that statement, sort of. Things do need replacing, but last couple of years when it came to replacing attractions, they've cut corners on the newer ones. I mean can you really say that Winnie The Pooh is a even a C+ ride? Can you say that right now DCA is worth the admission price? Now I know it sounds like I'm complaining and I probably am, but there are so many original and a creative people out there with fresh ideas that Disney just let go in exchange for the people who could do quick fixes for them. Now I love the company and I love working at DL and it's still the best park in CA. But I just noticed a difference between the DL of say twenty years ago to the DL of nowadays.

  6. #6

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    Lost originality or lost the budget to create the projects they have in imagination? I think it is an unfair slam against WDI to say they lost imagination in the face of a different corperate structure and an economy in fluctuation...They deserve more credit than that!







  7. #7

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    The original Disney vision has been misplaced, somehow. And I, for one, agree that TL needs to be returned to it's original format, that Pooh needs to go bact to the 100 acre woods, and the subs need to come back to the lagoon with the mermaids!

    As for DCA ... I think many times, it's hard to swallow a failure....there's an awful lot of space over there....wide avenues to walk on.... the Disney Execs need to just step back a moment and realize that there needs to be some major reworking of DCA to have it pay for itself...that park HAS to be losing money...and DL is probably making up for it! (along with the AP holders! lol!). just my 2 cents.
    ....it all began with a Mouse...

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ah schucks
    Lost originality or lost the budget to create the projects they have in imagination? I think it is an unfair slam against WDI to say they lost imagination in the face of a different corperate structure and an economy in fluctuation...They deserve more credit than that!
    That is a very good point, but I still think that costs could be cut elsewhere like stores, foods, etc.(EVERYTHING BUT SECURITY, CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH OF THAT, the park needs to stay safe) The fact of the matter is that attractions are what people come for and I know that the other things like the stores and the restraunts are what makes them money but the people come for the rides and if the rides aren't up to snuff or aren't up to Disney quality then they would just be losing even more money. Yeah, I will admittely say that it wasn't meant as a slam at WDI as much as it was towards the people in charge. The last couple of years of Eisner really messed up the company in my not so humble opinion. And I might be sticking my foot in the mouth with this thread, but it just seems like the best ideas for the park came out twenty years ago. Guess that what happens when your spoiled by the park for so many years.

  9. #9

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    While I agree for the most part with THEBOB's post I don't think this applies to just Disney. It's a general malaise in a country that has become so politically correct that it's ridiculous.

    Mediocrity is the order of the day. TV is nearly unwatchable, everything is being recycled, rewritten or remade. Just look at the upcoming film releases and see the number of remakes of old films or ones based on a TV series.

    The music industry is in a shambles. Classical music is in deep trouble as the musically educated continue to die and the younger generations aren't sufficient in numbers to make up an audience. Musical theater has changed drastically and like film is mostly dependent on revivals and books tacked onto already existing music. Stephen Sondheim can't get original material produced anymore because today's theatergoers won't see his new shows.

    The publishing world has been dumbed down to such a great extent that few really fine books don't stand a chance of making it to a wide audience. The majority of magazines and newspapers are geared down to a teenage reading level. I believe the last I read it was at about a 13 year old's reading and comprehension level.

    And in the art world, schlock artists such as Kincade, Shag and Neiman are considered the fine and collectable artists of the day.

    Everyone's playing it safe when it comes to originality and creativity.

    For anyone in MC who has been moaning about the demise of 2D animation, watch this weekend's release of "Howl's Moving Castle" and look for its posted grosses on Monday. I would bet that it won't even make the charts.

    Bless Disney for even releasing this wonderful film in the U.S. for people like me to see, but like Myazaki's previous film "Spritied Away," the majority of filmgoers will avoid this film like the plague. In reality, I'd love to see people showing support for animation by filling the theaters and showing Disney that there still is an audience for what the company was built upon.

  10. #10

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    Imagineering hasn't lost creativity or imagination or desire to do original rides.

    There are 2 sources of today's problems.

    1) Walt's original concept for Tomorrowland, which was copied at MK, then blown up to park scale at EPCOT. The edutainment-y, sciecnce factual concept has proven to be an economic disaster. Tomorrowland is the most re-done land in the park, by far, and still the land in most need of being redone yet again. YOU CAN'T be profitable if you're having to rebuild a whole land, or a whole park inthe case of Epcot Future World, every 10 to 15 years.

    Because of the desparate need to re-do the Tommorowland and Future World so often, there is no money for original attractions.

    2) Trying to out do the competition at their game. Universal decided to build a studio park in Orlando, so Disney slapped together a studio park in Orlando and rushed to get it open before Universal. So what if the park fails to take advantage of your core compatencies and company name..... Oh, now they care since they're having to completely re-do that park as well (See Kevin Yee's recent article on MGM's identity crisis).

    Then at DAK they tried to out Bush Gardens, Bush. The park needs MAJOR work, but there isn't enough money because of the need to constantly re-do Tomorrowlands, remake Future World from the ground up, and fix MGM.

    Then DCA was built for 1/3rd budget of a good park, just to get SOMETHING open to encourage people to stay on site and buy hoppers.....to compete with USH, SFMM and Knotts. it has done that, but needs major money to be fixed. Unfortunatly, the money isn't available because of the need to constantly redo tomorrowlands, rebuild Future World fromthe ground up, give MGM a make over, fix DAK....

    AND DSP....


    There are TOOO many parks that need TOOOOOO much work for disney to be able to afford originality.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by THE BOB
    Okay, I'm everyone has already come to this conclussion already and I'm stating the obvious here. But it seems like ever since the TL refurb in 98 (that bombed horribly) that the Disney Execs and Imagineers have completely lost any imagination or passion when it comes to new attractions or rides. Let's take a look at the attractions over the last couple years.

    DCA- Mostly overglorified carny rides you can find anywhere else. If not that, they were clones of WDW rides. The only real noteworthy somewhat original ride is "Soaring", and that's still a simulator.

    MAWP- Everyone knows the flop that was "The Many Adventures Of Winnie The Pooh", which is just a clone anyways. A HORRIBLE one at that.

    TOT: A clone of a WDW ride.


    BLAB: A clone

    Nemo Subs- Just a re-do of an old attraction, probably just going to add Nemo characters and that will be all.

    People Mover- Just a re-do

    Monsters Inc.- Now I'll admit that this is actually original and not a clone. But still it's just a dark ride and it just seems like it's another ride to make money off Pixar movies and characters.

    Now what happened to AA in rides? what happened to coming up with original ideas for rides instead of just "let's make this a dark ride" or "let's send in a clone from WDW" or "Let's just bring back this ride and add a pixar character"?
    I mean seriously, it is getting semi ridiculous on how lazy Disney has gotten with their "ideas".

    And I know that we got a great new Prez coming in named Matt, but it's going to take more than just him. The whole management needs to be overhauled and replaced with people who just aren't out to make money, it needs to be replaced with people who actually "care" about the traditions and values the park is based on not about making new stores. Also, they need Imagineers who aren't going to CUT CORNERS becasue a task is too diffucult. Pooh wouldn't have been crappy, if the people building it and transporting it were putting a hundred and ten percent into it, same goes for DCA and other flops within the park.

    I'm sorry to be going off on a rant but I want to see a return to tradition in the resort. More rides that feature AA, because those are the most popular rides. More rides that are based on a original concept not on what has been done before or based off a pixar character. I mean the possibilities for new attractions are endless, I know alot of people on these boards have already come up with Disney worthy ride ideas that are original. So with we can come up with original ideas for attractions for the park, why can't management and Imagineers do so as well?
    Uh.. What about TDL Pooh, TDS, Philharmagic and Mission:Space? All new and wether you like them or not are innovative.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Orville
    Uh.. What about TDL Pooh, TDS, Philharmagic and Mission:Space? All new and wether you like them or not are innovative.
    Oh, I was actually talking about DL, but those are some good points. To be honest, I've only been to Disneyland and that's the only park I care about. Again, they are willing to pay attention to the other parks, but it seems like they like to cut corners with DL. I could be wrong though, it just seems like that to me.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by THE BOB
    Oh, I was actually talking about DL, but those are some good points. To be honest, I've only been to Disneyland and that's the only park I care about. Again, they are willing to pay attention to the other parks, but it seems like they like to cut corners with DL. I could be wrong though, it just seems like that to me.
    So in theory your beef would be the captain of the ship for the last ten years since Indiana Jones---IE Paul Pressler and or Cynthia Harris. They set the tone for this park and if ride imagineering had been a priority new, inventive rides would have abounded. I loathe the idea that people blast the architects of the rides, the Walt Disney Imagineering, as if they control the course of Disneyland. These people get paid to invent rides and the only time the rides are developed is if and when the money is available.

    Furthermore they have invented a slew of new rides for themeparks across the globe. WDI designed and constructed Storm Rider here in Burbank, disassembled it shipped to Disneyland Toyko and reconstructed it and as I understand it---its an amazing ride.

    Amazing rides are being designed and built at the few major hubs for WDI here in CA and in FL...but not much of it is making to Disneyland because its out of there hands.







  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by desertdweller
    While I agree for the most part with THEBOB's post I don't think this applies to just Disney. It's a general malaise in a country that has become so politically correct that it's ridiculous.

    Mediocrity is the order of the day.
    I agree 100%. Sometimes I wonder if we will ever land people on Mars. The only reason we got to the moon was because we didn't want the Russians to do it first.

    Bill Gates says that this is a great time to be alive. I think that its a boring time. There is really nothing cool to look forward to. Anybody here getting all excited about riding on the A380 or 787 someday? I remember being excited about SST's when I was a kid. I also believed back then that someday I would be able to visit the moon someday. I guess that a sequel to a sequel on an X-box will have to do.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by dshimel
    Imagineering hasn't lost creativity or imagination or desire to do original rides.

    There are 2 sources of today's problems.

    1) Walt's original concept for Tomorrowland, which was copied at MK, then blown up to park scale at EPCOT. The edutainment-y, sciecnce factual concept has proven to be an economic disaster. Tomorrowland is the most re-done land in the park, by far, and still the land in most need of being redone yet again. YOU CAN'T be profitable if you're having to rebuild a whole land, or a whole park inthe case of Epcot Future World, every 10 to 15 years.

    Because of the desparate need to re-do the Tommorowland and Future World so often, there is no money for original attractions.

    2) Trying to out do the competition at their game. Universal decided to build a studio park in Orlando, so Disney slapped together a studio park in Orlando and rushed to get it open before Universal. So what if the park fails to take advantage of your core compatencies and company name..... Oh, now they care since they're having to completely re-do that park as well (See Kevin Yee's recent article on MGM's identity crisis).

    Then at DAK they tried to out Bush Gardens, Bush. The park needs MAJOR work, but there isn't enough money because of the need to constantly re-do Tomorrowlands, remake Future World from the ground up, and fix MGM.

    Then DCA was built for 1/3rd budget of a good park, just to get SOMETHING open to encourage people to stay on site and buy hoppers.....to compete with USH, SFMM and Knotts. it has done that, but needs major money to be fixed. Unfortunatly, the money isn't available because of the need to constantly redo tomorrowlands, rebuild Future World fromthe ground up, give MGM a make over, fix DAK....

    AND DSP....


    There are TOOO many parks that need TOOOOOO much work for disney to be able to afford originality.
    I belive the money for WDW and DLR come from two separate budgets. The reason DCA isn't getting the money it needs to get fixed IS NOT because Epcot is taking it for Future World. However, it is probably true that all of these parks and sections of parks that need work desperately drain park budgets, and in turn drain a lot of money from the company and therefore not getting enough money to budget big new imaginative rides.

    Not sure if thats how it actually is... but it sounds like it makes sense, yeah?

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