View Poll Results: What do you think of the smell of the Veggie Oil fuel in the trains?

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  • Smells horrible, Bring back the old fuel smell.

    8 27.59%
  • I like it,

    5 17.24%
  • don't care either way.

    16 55.17%
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  1. #1

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    New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    While I am happy that Disneyland is trying to save money on expensive oil for the steam trains, I very much miss the "old" steam train smells! The new veggie oil fuel Disney is using to generate the steam smells horrible. I was standing on Main Street near the flag pole when the train pulled into MainStreet station and was caught off guard by the horrible burnt cooking oil smell. At first I thought someone was burning some food at one of the eateries but then I realized it was the new fuel for the trains There must be some way to tame the smell, it makes me feel sick. Does anyone else feel this way or am I the only one who misses the "Old" steam train fuel smell?

  2. #2

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    I agree that the "old" smell was more evocative. This smell, along with the POTC water smell, probably brought back more Disney memories for people than just about any others in the park.

    It's a sad fact that the old smell is probably no more. Not sure if some additive could be devised to make the exhaust smell like the old diesel, but I'm guesing this probably won't be done.

  3. #3

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    I voted "I don't care" because I don't think the new smell is horrible. I just wish I could still smell the old smell it used to have. So my vote would be more like, "The new smell is ok, but bring the old smell back."

  4. #4

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    Steve, what do you think? I am curious what the train masters have to say about this.

  5. #5

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    That makes me wonder, why does the pirate water smell like that?
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  6. #6

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    What do I think?

    Obviously, I prefer the older, original smell. But my nostalgia just can't compete with the need for cheaper, less-polluting fuel. It's just the way it is, and I don't foresee any way to change it (except for an additive that could alter the smell).

    This isn't like changing the Tom Sawyer Island theme, or painting Sleeping Beauty Castle with pink & purple pastels, on the whim of some Imagineer. Changing fuel composition is almost required by today's economics and environmental concerns, and is not something that will be readily changed back.

    A single Disney steam locomotive can burn 14 gallons of diesel an hour. Multiply that by 18 hours a day during the summer (steam up begins early, and the trains run late), times three trains, and you're looking at 756 gollons of fuel burned. With diesel around $3.00/gallon in Orange County, you're looking at around $2,200 dollars a day just in fuel costs (the diesel Disney used to buy was slightly cheaper because they didn't need to pay road taxes on it). Over a year, that figure comes close to $800,000 dollars.

    Don't forget--there are those who fear that the steam trains may one day be converted to "steam outline" locomotives--mere shells that contain internal combustion engines as they have in Hong Kong. While this would be considered tantamount to ripping Walt's very heart and soul out of his Park by fans, there are those in the company who see definite economic benefit from such a change, and wouldn't have the slightest twinge of regret signing the order to gut the steamers.

    So, I guess we should thank the steam train gods that a new fuel is the only change we need to be saddled with--things could be far worse.
    Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 04-30-2007 at 09:24 AM.

  7. #7

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    What do I think?

    Obviously, I prefer the older, original smell. But my nostalgia just can't compete with the need for cheaper, less-polluting fuel. It's just the way it is, and I don't foresee any way to change it (except for an additive that could alter the smell).

    This isn't like changing the Tom Sawyer Island theme, or painting Sleeping Beauty Castle with pink & purple pastels, on the whim of some Imagineer. Changing fuel composition is almost required by today's economics and environmental concerns, and is not something that will be readily changed back.

    A single Disney steam locomotive can burn 14 gallons of diesel an hour. Multiply that by 18 hours a day during the summer (steam up begins early, and the trains run late), times three trains, and you're looking at 756 gollons of fuel burned. With diesel around $3.00/gallon in Orange County, you're looking at around $2,200 dollars a day just in fuel costs (the diesel Disney used to buy was slightly cheaper because they didn't need to pay road taxes on it). Over a year, that figure comes close to $800,000 dollars.

    Don't forget--there are those who fear that the steam trains may one day be converted to "steam outline" locomotives--mere shells that contain internal combustion engines as they have in Hong Kong. While this would be considered tantamount to ripping Walt's very heart and soul out of his Park by fans, there are those in the company who see definite economic benefit from such a change, and wouldn't have the slightest twinge of regret signing the order to gut the steamers.

    So, I guess we should thank the steam train gods that a new fuel is the only change we need to be saddled with--things could be far worse.
    Steve,
    thanks for the insight!
    I am horrified by the fact that gutting the SteamTrains and converting them to internal combustion is even a thought on the books. I will learn to live with the veggie oil fried cooking smell over the internal combustion engine any day.
    Thanks again for your information.
    One interesting non disney related tid bit is this past summer I spent a few days at Cedar Point in Sandusky Ohio, they have a wonderful steam train over there that is actually fired by COAL! I was very excited to get a chance to experience that!
    I hope to go again this summer, it sure was a special treat!

  8. #8

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    One interesting non disney related tid bit is this past summer I spent a few days at Cedar Point in Sandusky Ohio, they have a wonderful steam train over there that is actually fired by COAL!
    Yep, nothing smells quite like a coal burner!

    Of course, as I'm sure you're aware, our little Ward Kimball engine was the first steam locomotive restored for use at Cedar Point in the early 1960s. There, she was converted from her original oil-buring firebox to burn Ohio coal. She's come full circle by being converted by Disney back to an oil-burner!

  9. #9

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I agree that the "old" smell was more evocative. This smell, along with the POTC water smell, probably brought back more Disney memories for people than just about any others in the park.

    It's a sad fact that the old smell is probably no more. Not sure if some additive could be devised to make the exhaust smell like the old diesel, but I'm guesing this probably won't be done.

    Maybe they could use some of that chocolate chip cookie scent from Main Street?



    How does it compare with the burned coffee smell near the DCA entrance?

  10. #10

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    I haven't smelled the new Bio-Diesel fuel, yet. Does it make anyone hungry?

  11. #11

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    I have not smelled the new engines so I will not vote. But I do want to make the point that smells DO matter. I think we are more affected by smell than sight sometimes. How many times have I become hungry because of the scent of chocolate chip cookies baking or bread baking? We subconsciously avoid things that smell bad. In fact, I think it is impossible to truly relax and enjoy a vacation in an area that smells bad. We tense up and our subconscious desire to run away kicks in.

    Movie theater owners have learned that just by pumping popcorn smell out can increase sales. So on the opposite side, one way to decrease Disneyland attendance would be to make the park smell bad. Not that I am saying that this new smell is all that bad, but it sounds like a potential problem. After all, the train circles the park, sending the scent to every section.
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  12. #12

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    I haven't smelt the new smell, but I'm very much an enviornmental activist, so I think Disney is taking a step in the right direction with this.

  13. #13

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    Could they not have burned liquid propane and still been eco friendly?
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  14. #14

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Don't forget--there are those who fear that the steam trains may one day be converted to "steam outline" locomotives--mere shells that contain internal combustion engines as they have in Hong Kong. While this would be considered tantamount to ripping Walt's very heart and soul out of his Park by fans, there are those in the company who see definite economic benefit from such a change, and wouldn't have the slightest twinge of regret signing the order to gut the steamers.

    So, I guess we should thank the steam train gods that a new fuel is the only change we need to be saddled with--things could be far worse.
    Well, my stance on bio-diesel fuel is pretty well known (at least in the debate lounge), so I'm actually all for the fuel change. But I agree that I would not like to see them actually change the way the engine runs. They're making them cheaper/cleaner to run while still staying fairly close to original design in terms of how the engine works. Best of both worlds.

    After all, vegetable oil engines were around before petroleum diesel ones (see the history of Rudolph Diesel... his original engine ran on peanut oil), so it's not like they've taken the trains out of period or anything.

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  15. #15

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    Re: New Train veggie oil fuel = bad smell

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Orville View Post
    Could they not have burned liquid propane and still been eco friendly?
    Have you ever ridden behind a propane vehicle? BLech!

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