Disneyland in 3D!

[Datameister]

Glad you liked it! You're right that it's harder to model; most of the structural elements you're talking about aren't too difficult to create. I usually start out with a cube, which is typically flattened to a very thin width so it becomes a wall or a floor or whatever I need. Then I can extrude edges to produce more complex shapes, but it's still a rather simple process at heart. Cutting holes like windows or doors can get tricky, especially when the shapes are complex. The watching bust holes in the portrait gallery were especially difficult. Modeling decorations like the columns that in the ballroom glass can be hard, too. But you're right that creating the graveyard floor is different. Lining up the blueprints was a fun challenge--luckily, the scrims are indicated in both the overhead blueprint and in the cross sections, as is the outside edge of the ballroom floor, as well as the Doombuggy track...so those three elements helped me set things up pretty well. But getting the model itself to look right was interesting. I created a grid that came up to the edges of the graveyard, which are rather curved. I used "proportional editing," which means that when I push one vertex up and down, the others nearby follow a little. This helped me create smooth curves that conform to all the cross sections...hopefully.

What about modeling the doombuggy track under the terrain? Is there any maintenance access to the track in this area?

That's a cool idea! The Doombuggy track does indeed extend a few feet below the terrain throughout the ride, from what I'm told. I don't know what the access is like beneath the graveyard, unfortunately. I know that the raised edges of the graveyard are taller than a grown man; the ground slopes downwards toward the track, as you can see in the render. I believe there's one area of the graveyard where the ground actually slopes all the way down to the level of the true floor beneath it, though my model doesn't quite reflect that. Anyway, I don't know if the space below the graveyard is crisscrossed by supports that make it impossible to move around under there, or if it's mostly open space. There is, however, a backstage door into the show building that leads down stairs to a walkway that goes around the whole outside of the graveyard, a few feet lower than the level of the Doombuggy track. CMs walking along there would be completely hidden from the guests, even though there's no wall between them, because the terrain comes up so high at the edges. This walkway curves all the way around to a set of stairs behind the ghostly band, which I believe lead to a short little platform outside. You can see part of this walkway in the second-to-last render as a dark space to the right of the graveyard. The last render also should give you a feel for it, and you can see the stairs that come down from the first backstage door, too.

One interesting thing about the graveyard is the fact that part of it conceals the large room that contains the Hitchhiking Ghost animatronics. You can see this very clearly in the last render. Notice how the terrain comes up about three-quarters of the walls of that room. I believe the remaining quarter of the wall is hidden by crypts and trees. One blueprint I have also indicates a tree on the ceiling of this room, just to help create the illusion that the graveyard scenery continues back there. One of the graveyard's two main scrims also passes over the room about halfway down its length, behind the tree, further obscuring your vision.

I'm hoping to create both scrims, since they're quite explicitly shown in the blueprints. I'll make them mostly transparent, though I'm sure they'll get annoying while I'm modeling, since transparent objects only show up as transparent when I render them.

[HBG2]

Originally Posted by Datameister

I've started the strange and not terribly easy task of lining up the cross sections of the WDW graveyard with the DL blueprints. They're all cross sections of the "land" taken at different angles, so I have to get the size, rotation, and placement of the blueprints right. Some of them are quite vague at everything except the contour of the land, which makes placing them very difficult.

EDIT: Wow. I'm in a state of happy shock that I can honestly say all the cross-sections found their proper homes. There are still gaps in my knowledge about the lay of the land in the graveyard, but I can now build most of it accurately and guess at the rest. Just for fun, here's a screenshot from Blender that gives you some feel for what I'm talking about. There's a grand total of eight cross-sections here. All are now scaled, rotated, and placed so that they match up with the layout blueprint underneath. I hope that by this time tomorrow, I'll be posting a preliminary render of the graveyard landscape. Fingers crossed!

This is great. I haven't been following this thread, so this is my first comment. Heh. I recognize the blueprint you've got there "on the floor." It's a real fun one.

[Datameister]

This is great. I haven't been following this thread, so this is my first comment. Heh. I recognize the blueprint you've got there "on the floor." It's a real fun one.

Thanks! Yeah, that blueprint has been rolled up and unrolled countless times over the last few weeks; bought it on eBay, and it's been instrumental in creating the Haunted Mansion model. Hey, make sure you check out all the pages of this thread--I've got renders on every page, and they show a wide variety of stuff.

[HBG2]

Originally Posted by Datameister

Thanks! Yeah, that blueprint has been rolled up and unrolled countless times over the last few weeks; bought it on eBay, and it's been instrumental in creating the Haunted Mansion model. Hey, make sure you check out all the pages of this thread--I've got renders on every page, and they show a wide variety of stuff.

I have been checking 'em out. Great fun.

I hope your copy of that bprint is better than mine. Can you read the date on yours?

[Datameister]

I have been checking 'em out. Great fun.

I hope your copy of that bprint is better than mine. Can you read the date on yours?

Oh, good. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Unfortunately, no, I can't read the date. The copy isn't too great. Some of the text is clearly legible, but most of it is borderline incomprehensible. Luckily, I have two other full-attraction layout blueprints, so these help. It's always interesting to compare the differences between them and wonder which version is true. I do think that this particular blueprint is an older one--the hitchhiking ghosts were still planned as projection effects, the two-mirror setup for the dancing ghosts are visible in the blueprint, and a couple of things are just flat-out missing.

[HBG2]

Originally Posted by Datameister

Oh, good. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Unfortunately, no, I can't read the date. The copy isn't too great. Some of the text is clearly legible, but most of it is borderline incomprehensible. Luckily, I have two other full-attraction layout blueprints, so these help. It's always interesting to compare the differences between them and wonder which version is true. I do think that this particular blueprint is an older one--the hitchhiking ghosts were still planned as projection effects, the two-mirror setup for the dancing ghosts are visible in the blueprint, and a couple of things are just flat-out missing.

Sounds like my copy. I actually think this is a Spring '69 effects blueprint. Not old at all, but relatively young. It's the only bprint I've seen that has the wall accurately depicted on the HHG trackroom where it juts out and the "DEAD END" sign is mounted. And the old, single turntable, 3-couple, ballroom dancer set-up was jettisoned very late in the game; so late, in fact, that it was actually built, and the stock interior footage used in the Osmonds program shows it in actual operation (but without the mirrors), as discussed on The Thread. There are other features on that bprint that indicate a later date than other prints dating from the beginning of 1969. Also, it is a mistake, I think, to say that the HHG's were "still planned as projection effects." They were always planned to be as they are now. The very shape of the room argues for that. But as I've argued elsewhere, I'm convinced that something or other hit a snag, and they weren't ready to go by August '69, so the projection effect was a quick, stop-gap substitute that actually was seen for an extremely short period when the HM first opened.

[Datameister]

It's the only bprint I've seen that has the wall accurately depicted on the HHG trackroom where it juts out and the "DEAD END" sign is mounted.

You mean that little bit of wall that sticks out into the HHG crypt a little ways above and to the right of the intersection of A and 9? So that blueprint is correct! The others I've seen have a longer, angled protrusion. I couldn't find any photos or visit the park, so I didn't know which version was correct. Luckily, I went with the one you're telling me is correct.

the stock interior footage used in the Osmonds program shows it in actual operation (but without the mirrors), as discussed on The Thread.

Really? I read some of the discussion in The Thread about that effect, but I must have missed that fact. Interesting...

Also, it is a mistake, I think, to say that the HHG's were "still planned as projection effects." They were always planned to be as they are now. The very shape of the room argues for that. But as I've argued elsewhere, I'm convinced that something or other hit a snag, and they weren't ready to go by August '69, so the projection effect was a quick, stop-gap substitute that actually was seen for an extremely short period when the HM first opened.

That's a workable theory. I, too, have always thought that the size and shape of the room suggest at least some early inklings that the effect should be or become based on animatronics on a track. What I'm wondering is...how could this projection effect work? I can't think of any way to rear-project an image onto a one-way mirror and have both the image and the reflection visible, with the guests' depth perception placing the ghost image inside the reflected Doombuggy...

On the topic of the model, I've built both scrims. Now I'm trying to figure out how to give them an appropriately diaphanous texture.

[HBG2]

Yep, it's accurate--and the others are not--for that bit of wall structure.

For the HHG effect, see these:
http://p080.ezboard.com/The-ORIGINAL...cID=6621.topic
http://p080.ezboard.com/Were-the-HHG...cID=6653.topic

For the ballroom ghosts, see:
http://micechat.com/forums/showpost....postcount=1396

For another clue that the bprint under discussion shows a later phase than others, see:
http://micechat.com/forums/showpost....postcount=1220

I wouldn't think that rear-projection on a scrim is a problem. I'll bet if you looked at the wraiths flying up the scrims in the graveyard from the other side, they'd look much the same as they do from the front.

[Datameister]

Wow, I'm an idiot for not realizing that the images would be projected onto the wavy screen, which oh-so-coincidentally happens to be the exact same distance behind the glass as the Doombuggies are in front of it. Good job me!

Thanks for the info on all this! Very cool stuff. And you're right about the rear projection on scrims, I'm sure, though I can't really remember seeing the wraiths from the back, despite the fact that you're pointed right at them for part of the graveyard tour.

You know what I just thought of? Fog, cheesy as it is, does lend an undeniable creepiness to scenes like that, and it'd be nice in the Haunted Mansion...but the numerous projection effects in the graveyard make fog machines implausible. Any sort of particulate matter or vapor in the air would make it instantly obvious that there were actually projectors making the busts sing and the wraiths fly. Too bad, really...but I that's why the scrims stretch around the graveyard much further than they need to for the projection effects. They simulate fog rather nicely, obscuring things in the distance, creating an otherworldly feel. As long as you don't take a flash picture or turn on the house lights, that is.

Speaking of scrims, here's the first real render of the two scrims in the model. Notice how, as I mentioned before, the outer scrim actually passes over the ceiling of the HHG animatronics room, though I haven't actually added the ceiling yet.

By the way, I REALLY need photos of the more obscure areas of the graveyard. All the stuff around the attic exit, including the "exterior" of the house and the adjacent black walls, is really poorly documented and it's hard for me to know exactly what to build in the model.

EDIT: I also need info on the "Blue Room." I've only heard about this on the left side of this page at Doombuggies.com, but that spot is in the blueprints and some version of it is already in the model. Here's what I know. There is a platform with a ladder going down to another platform, from which the organ banshees can be accessed; you can see that platform and some of the walls surrounding it in this render and in others. The floor of the first platform is at the exact same height as the attic floor, and according to "Shawn Potts," they're attached to each other, with access through the part of the attic that extends a ways outward. But I really need to know what this whole area looks like, both from the inside and from the outside (graveyard). Anyone who can provide me with information on this "Blue Room"...I implore you, please do so.

[HBG2]

There's little doubt that the graveyard scrims are supposed to duplicate the effect of ground mist, as well as providing screens for wraiths to climb and also obscuring the outer walls so that you feel outdoors.

As for attic and graveyard pix, have you got these?

http://www.hauntedmansion.info/Attic...?imageorder=15
http://www.hauntedmansion.info/Attic...?imageorder=35
http://www.hauntedmansion.info/Grave...p?imageorder=0
http://www.hauntedmansion.info/Grave...p?imageorder=1
http://www.hauntedmansion.info/Grave...?imageorder=14

[Datameister]

Ooh, I had some of those, but not all. Another excellent find! Thanks for the help.

Man, rendering is taking longer and longer as the model becomes more complex. This was another 2.5-hour render job--I came back from a date, expecting it to be finished, but it still had another sixteenth of the image left. Anyway, don't think there's a whole lot to explain here...I suppose I should point out that the train tunnel isn't quite accurate; I believe the left side, where it starts after the NOS station, is beginning too far to the right. In other words, the tunnel is currently starting inside the berm, rather than peeking out of it at the end of the station. That'll have to be fixed.

Funnily enough, this render was originally just to show the scrims (which look like non-reflective glass for the time being...sorry ) from a different angle. But I realized it'd be nice to show the whole ride, especially since I hadn't really shown it from almost straight overhead before. I was about to start the rendering when I realized that there was empty space on the right where Splash Mountain should be...so I gave in and included that.

Other than that...hmmmm. Ah--a little contest. I'll PM a cookie to the first person who can correctly tell me how many fake chimneys are visible in this render. Have fun, kiddies. And you are forewarned...this isn't a tiny render.

[Hilsbro]

6???

[Datameister]

Correct! Four false chimneys in the mansion facade, one in the attic exterior, and one in the Splash Mountain queue. Check your PM inbox for the aforementioned cookie.

[Hilsbro]

YAY.....Cant wait...Oh look I have a lot of internet cookies!!!

[DisneyMan]

How goes the Haunted Mansion work? Doing a great job!

-mark