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  1. #151

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    [quote=fo'c's'le swab;1833490]
    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    (BOLD mine)What?! No. I think you have no familiarity with what "the point" is in this case is. If Disney, in 1959, wanted to theme the Subs to a movie, "always" doing "what is popular", why not , then, theme the original Subs ride to the POPULAR (and at least semi-relevant) movie "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea"?
    The answer is because it didn't fit with a Tomorrowland theme, and the attraction did not need a "helping hand" in entertaining the masses, just as it didn't need assistance today.
    The reason the subs aren't themed to 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea is only partially because of your assertion. The other reason is that General Dynamics, the original sponsor of the ride and consultant on the submarine construction wanted them to look like their own new fleet of nuclear-powered subs. Thus, the diesel-powered subs were built in the standard cigar shape, painted grey, and called nuclear-powered.
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  2. #152

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by BassBone View Post
    The reason the subs aren't themed to 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea is only partially because of your assertion. The other reason is that General Dynamics, the original sponsor of the ride and consultant on the submarine construction wanted them to look like their own new fleet of nuclear-powered subs. Thus, the diesel-powered subs were built in the standard cigar shape, painted grey, and called nuclear-powered.
    I think the power of sponsors has played a part in what made Disneyland unique and kept the company from doing what was simply popular. Slowly making my way through Steve's book, Welcome Aboard the Disneyland Railroad!, it seems that a lot came from the sponsorship of the attraction. It is Siemens AG that has forced Disney to remove the wand that towers above Spaceship Earth. What else have the sponsors help maintain? But then there is General Motors and the World of Motion and Test Track.

  3. #153

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    I think the power of sponsors has played a part in what made Disneyland unique and kept the company from doing what was simply popular. Slowly making my way through Steve's book, Welcome Aboard the Disneyland Railroad!, it seems that a lot came from the sponsorship of the attraction. It is Siemens AG that has forced Disney to remove the wand that towers above Spaceship Earth. What else have the sponsors help maintain? But then there is General Motors and the World of Motion and Test Track.
    I'm not saying the sponsorship is a bad thing, just dispelling the myth about the submarines and 20,000 Leagues. I love that Dole sponsors the Tiki Room. It's probable that without Dole's support the Tiki Room would have gone the way of the flying saucers by now. Then where would I get my Dole Whip? WDI eventually did build a 20,000 Leagues ride at Walt Disney World, complete with Nautiluses (Nautili?).
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  4. #154

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Disneyland's history with institutional patrons is quite remarkable. The company should devote more attention to them and to expanding their role in creating these artistic works.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for an enterprise that might want to present the Submarine Voyage? General Dynamics is probably not a good candidate, nowadays, unless Disney doesn't mind arming Nemo with intercontinental ballistic missiles.

  5. #155

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by BassBone View Post
    I'm not saying the sponsorship is a bad thing, just dispelling the myth about the submarines and 20,000 Leagues. I love that Dole sponsors the Tiki Room. It's probable that without Dole's support the Tiki Room would have gone the way of the flying saucers by now. Then where would I get my Dole Whip? WDI eventually did build a 20,000 Leagues ride at Walt Disney World, complete with Nautiluses (Nautili?).
    I'm not sure if you're dispelling a myth, or propogating one.

    As the E Ticket points out, Bob Gurr "adopted the look of the atomic U.S. Submarine Nautilus for the Disneyland craft." "I was responsible for the styling of the subs," Gurr stated.

    Disney had previously teamed with the U.S. Navy in the mid-50s, with Disneyland broadcasting Antarctica, Past & Present, Operation Deep Freeze and To the South Pole for Science. In the meantime, the real Nautilus was making headlines around the world. Thre's little doubt the current and future adventures of these amazing vessels was far more appealing to Walt, and the excitement generated by them at the time was palpable (Disney's 20K was 4 years old at the time--and remember--this was a DVD/Video-less age. Once a movie ended its theatric run, it was virtually shelved).

    In my sources, (other than Sue Kruse's MiceAge article, which lists none), there is no mention of any efforts to initially have the subs look like 20,000K subs. Until someone can substantiate that claim with an interview or statements from someone there at the time who worked on the project (Gurr, C. Coates, R. Broggie, B. Martin, W. Rogers, G. Feldcamp, J. Eddy, or T. Woodworth, among others) then we must conclude that the notion that the subs were initially meant to portray Verneian vessels to be nothing more than another DL urban legend that refuses to die.
    Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 06-09-2007 at 04:38 AM.

  6. #156

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    I really don't know the validity or truthfulness of the 20,000 Leagues story, myself. I always preferred Walt Disney World's visual design over the militaristic style of Disneyland's submarines, and I find entirely possible the suggestion that General Dynamics would have wanted a "futuristic" or modern conception of the vessels in order to reflect the great achievement that the U.S.S. Nautilus surely was. However, I find equally plausible the notion that Walt Disney wanted an entirely original attraction that had no relationship to the Jules Verne story.

    I've always heard that the Submarine Voyage was originally proposed as a glass-bottom boat ride but that Walt Disney insisted on submerging the guests underwater.

  7. #157

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Prag, I, too, always preferred the 20K design--but I'm a 20K fan (one who's actually read the book as well). However, those designs have never looked "futurisitic" the way nuclear powered subs--and their exploits--must have seemed to the public in 1959.

    I'm presenting facts; statements by Bob Gurr, who was there, and who obviously was intrumental in designing the ride vehicles themselves.

    If you or anyone else has something more than "I find it plausible...", I'd love to hear/read it.

  8. #158

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Hence my modifier, "purportedly",...

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    Does anyone have any suggestions for an enterprise that might want to present the Submarine Voyage?
    Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution?

  10. #160

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution?
    I think Disney needs a business with deeper pockets.

  11. #161

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    "Fiction has a strange way of becoming fact. Not long ago we produced a motion picture based on the immortal tale 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea featuring the famous submarine 'Nautilus.' According to that story, the craft was powered by a magic force.

    "Today the tale has come true. A modern namesake of the old fairy ship--the submarine 'Nautilus' of the United States Navy--has become the world's first atom-powered ship. It is proof of the useful power of the atom that will drive the machines of our modern age."

    --Walt Disney, 1956

    Test: Which submersible would Walt Disney want in his land of the future:

    A) an "old fairy ship" or,

    B) a sleek expression of all the optimism the atomic age had to offer?

  12. #162

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    I think Disney needs a business with deeper pockets.
    United Technologies has deep pockets and was responsible for The Living Seas at EPCOT. However, a consumer brand probably makes the most sense for the Submarine Voyage. Siemens might be a good candidate, though.

    I'm thinking of a company that may want to emphasize its friendliness and its environmentalism. Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage offers a natural opportunity to mention: the Great Barrier Reef; preservation of ecologies and biodiversity; mitigation of global warming; etc.

    While Siemens is currently appearing in several places throughout the world of Disney, the company is an interesting possibility for the Submarine Voyage, especially since the organization considers water purification one of its core competencies.

  13. #163

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Yes, but was the change to Finding Nemo just to capitilize on a hugely popular and hugely profitable franchise (I am sure that Nemo merch and related bring in millions of dollars a year, if not billions)?

    I don't think the message of environmental protection is really being inforced into this attraction, it just seems Disney took a popular franchise and made it the theme to an attraction that needed to come back..

  14. #164

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    I think Disney needs a business with deeper pockets.
    I think GE would be a good candidate... given their deeep pockets and presence in propulsion systems and all kinds of electronics technology.

    Unfortunately the conflict with GE in television could be a show stopper

  15. #165

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I think GE would be a good candidate... given their deeep pockets and presence in propulsion systems and all kinds of electronics technology.

    Unfortunately the conflict with GE in television could be a show stopper
    Rumor has it GE's ditching NBC.
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