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  1. #181

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    Disneyland originally featured Verne's Nautilus.
    Only out of necessity.

  2. #182

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Not really. The technology described in the novel was based on then-emerging discoveries. Verne may have tweaked them a bit, but the knowledge base he relied on already existed.
    Sorry, I must have missed where we lost the unlimited power source back in the 1800s.. along with underwater farming.. deep sea exploration.. etc. Must have all faded away in that second Dark Age we had somewhere in there.

    I know the parallel to atomic power isn't explicit, but you can't even say he envisioned it. I mean, it wasn't even until the 1900s that the scientists even figured out the atom wasn't some indivisible part, that it was actually comprised of subcomponents that included charges and the existence of things such as isotopes. I guess all that work was simply reinventing what was already existing back when Verne wrote his novels?

  3. #183

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Clearly, flynnibus, you haven't read Verne's work, and are just relying on your understanding of the movie.

    Obviously, I can't rationally discuss what's contained in the novel with someone who hasn't read it, and yet claims to know what's in it.

    If you think you know what's in the novel, fine. If you think Verne predicted an "unlimted energy source," fine. If you think he made any kind of reference to some mystery power (either explicit or implicit), fine.

    But you'd be wrong.

  4. #184

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    If you think he made any kind of reference to some mystery power (either explicit or implicit), fine.
    Wiat you mean George Lucas didnt steal the Idea for the Force from Vernes, well than I owe George an appology

  5. #185

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Just to butt into this debate, whatever is or isn't in Verne's book is less relevant than what is or isn't in the Disney movie adaptation, wouldn't you say? Alice in Wonderland owes a helluva lot more to the 1951 movie than to Lewis Carroll, for example.

  6. #186

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    For those who aren't "into" reading the whole novel, you can see Verne's description of the Nautilus' propulsion system here:

    http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toc...&division=div2

    For those with even shorter attention spans, I'll quote the pertinent part:

    This engine-room, clearly lighted, did not measure less than sixty-five feet in length. It was divided into two parts; the first contained the materials for producing electricity, and the second the machinery that connected it with the screw. I examined it with great interest, in order to understand the machinery of the Nautilus.

    "You see," said the Captain, "I use Bunsen's contrivances, not Ruhmkorff's. Those would not have been powerful enough. Bunsen's are fewer in number, but strong and large, which experience proves to be the best. The electricity produced passes forward, where it works, by electro-magnets of great size, on a system of levers and cog-wheels that transmit the movement to the axle of the screw. This one, the diameter of which is nineteen feet, and the thread twenty-three feet, performs about 120 revolutions in a second."
    "And you get then?"
    "A speed of fifty miles an hour."
    Yes, Verne's speaking of electricity, generated by a known method, used to turn an electric motor. The battery operated propulsion system of Nazi U-boats (underwater) was closer to Verne's description than any "mystery energy source."

  7. #187

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    For those with even shorter attention spans, I'll quote the pertinent part:
    "A speed of fifty miles an hour."
    Does this include a Dr Evil pinky-to-the-mouth picture?
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  8. #188

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Times change, anyone ever see the episode where Lucy gets pulled over for driving through Bent Fork at a whopping 30 miles an hour

  9. #189

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Does this include a Dr Evil pinky-to-the-mouth picture?
    50 miles an hour is pretty fast--actually damn fast--for any submarine. It's actually nearly twice as fast as the newest US Attack Submarine, the USS North Carolina.

  10. #190

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Clearly, flynnibus, you haven't read Verne's work, and are just relying on your understanding of the movie.
    I admit I was blurring the novel vs the movie... but the material in question should really be Disney's adaptation anyway. And regardless, to say Verne wasn't futuristic.. come on.. space travel.. submarines.. electricity powering everything. The man was ahead of his time, and is rightfully acknowledged as so now in terms of fiction writing. His writings were futuristic.

    Plus, the underwater farming IS in the novel, as well as his vision of how subs were to operate. And then of course other works of his were even more advanced. It was Science Fiction - and even is a bit to this day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Obviously, I can't rationally discuss what's contained in the novel with someone who hasn't read it, and yet claims to know what's in it.
    Sorry, no its not on my weekly book club this month. I had to fall back on history from 20+ years ago. Sorry we aren't as all flawless as you. But since you insisted, I looked up references. But as another poster mentioned, its the Disney franchise that really matters in the context here.

  11. #191

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    How does one generate electricity aboard a submarine while submerged and without nuclear power?

    What was the known method? The sodium for the batteries was extracted from seawater, but how were they charged?

    Did Verne's Nautilus have to surface in order to generate the electricity?

    While I originally didn't care much about this discussion, my curiosity has been piqued because I was not aware that the Disney film differed substantially from the novel.

    The core theme of Disney's story is the contrast between Nemo and Aronnax's using technology for good or for ill. Both men are conflicted and are caught in moral dilemmas, specifically about the power source. The killer submarine, Nautilus, is an expression of the technology as a weapon.

  12. #192

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    How does one generate electricity aboard a submarine while submerged and without nuclear power?
    the 'batteries' do it. creating electricity through the chemical reactions in the 'batteries'. I read it as he fuels his battery reactions through the chemicals extracted from the see.. (which is often done by electrolysis these days... ironically enough)

  13. #193

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    How does one generate electricity aboard a submarine while submerged and without nuclear power?

    What was the known method? The sodium for the batteries was extracted from seawater, but how were they charged?
    See, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunsen_cell

    Verne doesn't go into huge detail, but he does utilize technologies known to him at the time--but "amped up" a little for literature's sake. As noted, even today's submarines cannot measure up the the Nautilus' speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    Did Verne's Nautilus have to surface in order to generate the electricity?
    Verne's Nautilus had to surface every day to take on air--there was no way to produce it shipboard. This became a problem when the sub got entombed in an overturned iceberg near the South Pole. The crew had to dig themselves out--almost suffocating in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    While I originally didn't care much about this discussion, my curiosity has been piqued because I was not aware that the Disney film differed substantially from the novel.
    There are similarities, of course, and you will recognize some scenes (the giant squid, natives getting a "charge,") but much of the book never made it to the screen (the trip to the Pole, exploring Atlantis). The book is really a tour-de-force if you want to know about oceanic biology. But don't look for any nuclear explosions at the end to send the Nautilus to her final resting place--in Verne's work, the sub is sucked down a vortex...never to be seen again--until it (and Nemo) reappears in The Mysterious Island.

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    The core theme of Disney's story is the contrast between Nemo and Aronnax's using technology for good or for ill. Both men are conflicted and are caught in moral dilemmas, specifically about the power source. The killer submarine, Nautilus, is an expression of the technology as a weapon.
    There is no "hated nation" in Verne, and in fact, the only ship struck in the book's opening chapters was hit accidentally. The tone of the novel is completely different

    The book is really a great story, and should be read by anyone wishing to know more about the Disney version.

  14. #194

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    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Just to butt into this debate, whatever is or isn't in Verne's book is less relevant than what is or isn't in the Disney movie adaptation, wouldn't you say? Alice in Wonderland owes a helluva lot more to the 1951 movie than to Lewis Carroll, for example.
    The reason the book comes into play was that not only was it Walt's "source," it also provided several story elements for the first incarnation of the submarine ride. It is relevant, just as Lewis Carroll's works are relevant, and should be read by any Disney fan who wishes to know the "full story."

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