Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 194
  1. #46

    • Progressive Disneylander
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    1,240

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    For some, change is a 'dirty word'. The truth is that with any change, someone won't be happy. That's just life. You can never please all of the people all of the time. It's an impossibility.

    While I am usually open to change, there are times that I don't love certain decisions (ex. closing the People Mover, painting Monstro blue, or that silly Rockin' Space Mountain crap).

    Other times, they have made good decisions (ex. replacing Country Bears w/ Pooh, ressurrecting the subs and rebuilding Space Mountain). Disney isn't always going to get everything right, but they've gotten it right more than they've gotten it wrong or their resorts wouldn't be as successful as they are.

    As open as I am to change, there are certainly some things to me that they should never change -- at least too drastically. I mean, it's cool when they incorporate new things into classics like The Haunted Mansion and Pirates that enhance the attraction while not altering the overall ride. But if they went and changed the voice of the Ghost Host or replaced "Yo Ho!" with a different song inside of Pirates, things like that would be completely unacceptable.

    When it comes to changing or closing attractions, there usually is a good reason behind it. If Country Bears was getting packed houses for every showing, it'd still be around today. They likely looked at it as a building they could 'upgrade' with Pooh. While some are critical of Pooh, for me, I usually do Pooh once a day while I'm there where I probably wouldn't do the Country Bears more than once during my entire vacation at DL. So, for me, it's an upgrade. For the one-day visitors, it might not be.

    Anyhow, I'm more pro-change as opposed to being staunchly against it. I know I won't always be happy, but I don't think 'change' is a dirty word at all and feel it's necessary for DL's survival.

  2. #47

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    1,240

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by KISSman View Post
    For some, change is a 'dirty word'. The truth is that with any change, someone won't be happy. That's just life. You can never please all of the people all of the time. It's an impossibility.

    While I am usually open to change, there are times that I don't love certain decisions (ex. closing the People Mover, painting Monstro blue, or that silly Rockin' Space Mountain crap).

    Other times, they have made good decisions (ex. replacing Country Bears w/ Pooh, ressurrecting the subs and rebuilding Space Mountain). Disney isn't always going to get everything right, but they've gotten it right more than they've gotten it wrong or their resorts wouldn't be as successful as they are.

    As open as I am to change, there are certainly some things to me that they should never change -- at least too drastically. I mean, it's cool when they incorporate new things into classics like The Haunted Mansion and Pirates that enhance the attraction while not altering the overall ride. But if they went and changed the voice of the Ghost Host or replaced "Yo Ho!" with a different song inside of Pirates, things like that would be completely unacceptable.

    When it comes to changing or closing attractions, there usually is a good reason behind it. If Country Bears was getting packed houses for every showing, it'd still be around today. They likely looked at it as a building they could 'upgrade' with Pooh. While some are critical of Pooh, for me, I usually do Pooh once a day while I'm there where I probably wouldn't do the Country Bears more than once during my entire vacation at DL. So, for me, it's an upgrade. For the one-day visitors, it might not be.

    Anyhow, I'm more pro-change as opposed to being staunchly against it. I know I won't always be happy, but I don't think 'change' is a dirty word at all and feel it's necessary for DL's survival.
    Great points none-the less (I remembered Monstro being blue as far back as 85, but oh well).

    Yeah, I believe that is why Country Bears was closed down - every single time I went, barely a half filled audience...and when I checked it out, it was once a visit - Pooh, I will do once or twice because my little ones.

    Getting rid of the Peoplemover and replacing it with then Rocket Rods was a bad bad bad bad bad decision. I was there on opening day, and I was not impressed. It was too fast and too much like Peoplemover on steroids. I was looking for a better attraction than that - I believe TL98 was a bad decision overall, but look at what the management was like then - could that have led to the poor change? I believe that yes, maybe Peoplemover could have been updated - yes it was an okay ride - but seriously, it was a walk on every time (Pooh isn't always, believe it or not) and they could have made it still slow, but maybe, at least in my opinion, a better narration and better show. New ride vehicles, knock out the top of Starcade, expand that as part of a show building with the 'trackless' ride system...just something. But otherwise, I agree with your thoughts.

    And to be truly honest, I don't think there would be any way for Disney to get across all of the old Disney classics like they used to be able to - no amount of marketing, whether anyone wants to believe it or not, will not get the old classics popular again - the movie and dvd industry has become much more completive in the past couple of years, it would be almost impossible to generate a huge fanbase to warrant a change to have kept the SFR Treehouse the way it was - no relevance. You can ignore it, but relevance and revenue are the language of park attendance. Sorry
    Last edited by TheManator; 06-04-2007 at 07:24 PM.

  3. #48

    • Supermom
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Posts
    75

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones View Post
    Catpoo colors VS. ultramodern.
    This made me LOL.

    I really miss the old Tomorrowland design. Still, Buzz and Star Tours are great rides. It's too bad they couldn't keep some of the old gems and still add new stuff. But there just isn't room.

  4. #49

    • ...is fading out....
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    13,449
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Change is inevitable. But I think the issue here is that the things that get changed are changed for things that have no imagination or worse - no budget to actually make them work (Rocket Rods).

    Personally, I don't see how Buzz Lightyear is better than Circlevision. Watching a movie that circles around you was fabulous. I got on Buzz - and I don't have to do it again. I don't see the imagination in it. I don't see the future in it.

    Rocket Rods replaced the PeopleMover - OK. I was totally cool with that. Yeah, I missed the PeopleMover, but the Rocket Rods were a lot of fun - when they worked. Why didn't they work? Word on the street is that they didn't have enough budget to make it work perfectly. I remember being in line one night and it broke down 3 times. I remember being on it once and it broke down twice....and when it came back to the station, they let us go around again because of the breakdowns.......where it broke down again in the second go-round. This is where the lack of budget comes into play. Rocket Rods were cool - but it was sad that they didn't allocate enough money to make them work the way they should have.

    Change isn't a dirty word, if the change is done correctly.

  5. #50

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    4,089

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    >>It's too bad they couldn't keep some of the old gems and still add new stuff. But there just isn't room.<<

    Really, what took the physical place of PeopleMover, Rocket Jets, Skyway and Motor Boat Cruise?

  6. #51

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    4,089

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    >>Change isn't a dirty word, if the change is done correctly.<<

    Change isn't a dirty word, but sometimes what's in the diaper is...

  7. #52

    • DLR -> WDW Cast Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,238

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Only for Anal P*******s.
    Burnt Toast
    The Magic Begins With Me...! 8:P

  8. #53

    • Disney worshipper/geek
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Westchester, California
    Posts
    903

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by Junthor View Post
    My only fear is Crappy changes or "faddish" changes.

    I don't mind changes.... as long as they are quality Changes.

    I would hate DLR to change something because of the Popularity of something that is in reality a "short term'" fad.

    That is generally the problem with a lot of these changes. They are NOT for the better or long-term.

    There was another recent thread that mentioned being pirated and Princessed out, and a response was "if you don't like it, don't buy it". It's not that I don't like Pirates or Princesses as a rule, but I a, sick and tired of pushing something until looking at something I used to enjoy makes me want to vomit. I loved Pooh, and I adore Piglet...TIRED OF IT! Love Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom, totally enjoy the first two Pirates movies (AWE kinda dissappointed me) DON'T NEED 'EM TROLLING AROUND FRONTIERLAND AND SHOVING TOM AND HUCK DOWN A WELL! Love Ariel and Aurora and I'm glad I can get Princess stuff for my goddaughter with the main ones on (or, as she calls them, "the heavy hitters"), but STOP CATEGORIZING!

    Disney likes to just do what is quick now, not what is long lasting and interesting.

    Pirate Island is a good example. Instead of trying to reinforce and regenerate interest in Mark Twain's literature, they dump a concept that has worked for decades and throw in a theme that has not proven to have the same longevity yet. Not saying it won't, but getting tired of that being the first idea.
    My mind won't rest
    and I don't sleep
    Not even in my dreams...
    -"If You Ever Did Believe"
    written by Stevie Nicks

    Chasen Matthew Pacheco
    1985-2005

  9. #54

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    1,240

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    merlinjones, you make me sigh.
    Do you think that changes to Walt's original are bad?
    I mean, not just getting rid of and not replacing or replacing with an inferior attraction (regardless if it pulls in more people than the final years of the previous attraction) - I mean changes like adding Capt Jack Sparrow, Capt Barbossa, Davy Jones, removing/modifying original dialog - or removing the somewhat sorry AA of the phantom bride and replacing it with a more menacing projection into Haunted Mansion - even though the fact this has made these attractions more relevant (more sore with POTC) by adding something that is not only popular, but something that has proven to be popular, and I don't doubt for one moment that these additions become irrelevant that TDA/WDI will remove these add ons. Again, that is mostly about POTC.

    But as for Haunted Mansion, I know it was Marc Davis's original idea not to have a linear storyline, but would you say that by putting in the Black Widow Bride is a GOOD or BAD thing?
    Yes, I am aware that you may bring up the point that they could have somehow put in the Hatbox Ghost (which was unsuccessful at the time) by using more up-to-date technology. But I don't understand why they would put back something that was unsuccessful even if the technology would allow it - that wouldn't make much sense to me. Sorry to tread off there beyond my original point.

    Modifications to Walt's originals - not overlays - but mods - adding in new scenes and such, even if it does not HARM the attraction in the least bit (you know somewhere deep inside of yourself you believe these do help the attractions, I just know it) - BAD or GOOD?

  10. #55

    • Senior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    4,814

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by JiminyCricketFan View Post
    When movie connections are done right, they allow the guest to experience what the character experienced in the film. Every child wanted to fly over London with Peter Pan. Walt gave guests the chance to do that.
    Oh, there you said it. Absolutely. Experience what the movie character did. Yes. What we get, instead, is a view from the audience of the movie happenings. Yeah, we'vev already seen that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sorceress1986 View Post
    Pirate Island is a good example. Instead of trying to reinforce and regenerate interest in Mark Twain's literature, they dump a concept that has worked for decades and throw in a theme that has not proven to have the same longevity yet.
    Well said. I agree completely.
    I pledge allegiance to the Earth, one planet, many gods, and to the universe in which she spins.

  11. #56

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    1,240

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by sorceress1986 View Post

    That is generally the problem with a lot of these changes. They are NOT for the better or long-term.

    There was another recent thread that mentioned being pirated and Princessed out, and a response was "if you don't like it, don't buy it". It's not that I don't like Pirates or Princesses as a rule, but I a, sick and tired of pushing something until looking at something I used to enjoy makes me want to vomit. I loved Pooh, and I adore Piglet...TIRED OF IT! Love Johnny Depp and Orlando Bloom, totally enjoy the first two Pirates movies (AWE kinda dissappointed me) DON'T NEED 'EM TROLLING AROUND FRONTIERLAND AND SHOVING TOM AND HUCK DOWN A WELL! Love Ariel and Aurora and I'm glad I can get Princess stuff for my goddaughter with the main ones on (or, as she calls them, "the heavy hitters"), but STOP CATEGORIZING!

    Disney likes to just do what is quick now, not what is long lasting and interesting.

    Pirate Island is a good example. Instead of trying to reinforce and regenerate interest in Mark Twain's literature, they dump a concept that has worked for decades and throw in a theme that has not proven to have the same longevity yet. Not saying it won't, but getting tired of that being the first idea.
    Yeah, they really did it on cowboys and Indians in the 60s...no longer as much in Frontierland. Princesses, which are relevant to Fantasyland, won't last forever, but if DCP has anything to say with it though...same thing with Pirates, relevant now, relevant later? Probably not. But that is exactly what change is all about. One day everything will change again, no longer will be Pirates and Princess. No longer Jedi Academy - THAT is what I meant by change - it happens. People fear what is now will be forever, it won't!

    Everything may change! Everything may change for the better soon, maybe for the worst. But it's best to say "Hey, it won't last forever!" Thats how, sadly, life is.

  12. #57

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    1,240

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by alphabassetgrrl View Post
    Oh, there you said it. Absolutely. Experience what the movie character did. Yes. What we get, instead, is a view from the audience of the movie happenings. Yeah, we'vev already seen that.



    Well said. I agree completely.

    Woah back - Pirates hasn't worked?

    Yeah, that Pirates ride over in NOS...what a SNORE!

  13. #58

    • враг народа
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    14,033
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Change has only become polarized by those who love, "Disneyland will not be complete so long as their is imagination left in the world." Every and any change is instantly embraced as needed and relevent. Usually, the last part of Walt's words "so long as their is imagination left in the world" is left totally ignored. Those claimed to fear change are usually looking for the imagination.

    Many recent changes are not based in imagination. They are marketing gimmicks, as evidenced by the proliferation of shops at the end of attractions. I really only have one criticism of Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters, and that is the use of the toys as the characters throughout the attraction, which are conveniently available for purchase afterwards.

    Some recent attractions (i.e. Tarzan's Treehouse and Pirates Lair) offer little that is different from their predecessor. Yet Disney claims they are brand new and better because they are tied to a newer property. This assumes that a relevent property makes an attraction better. This belief has been spread throughout the park to every corner. Movie based attractions are not inherently bad, but Imagineering used to be able to create an experince or story all on its own. Now attractions are based on the same generic story using characters we just met at the cinema and Wal*Mart.

    Continuing on that note, the uniqueness of the parks is diminishing. Disneyland is now where we go to see the latest Disney property. There is nothing new and exciting to discover that is not seen elsehwere. Even the Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage has a smaller doppleganger at EPCOT Center.

    -- -- --

    On the note of Adventure Thru Inner Space, this seems to be more of the desire to push properties. When first charged with designing Disneyland's second gate, the Imagineers saw fit to include Adventure Thru Inner Space, as Cosmic Journies, in WestCOT. Attractions have been moved and relocated, but I cannot think of any other designed to be included elsewhere nearly a decade after closing.

    -- -- --

    The dificulty of finding Walt Disney in Disney products is unacceptable. Not everything can be offered to a wide audience, but much more definitely can be offered. I offered in another thread an idea of reintroducing the Vault Disney concept as a monthly feature hosted by the stars of the Disney Channel. As much as it makes me cringe, it seems like a way of introducing Walt Disney. The newer properties have, to a small extent in my opinion, introduced older Disney songs via the Disney Mania series of albums.

    The internet, and outlets such as the iTunes Store, could also be utilized. Iger has made mention that titles will potentially continue to available through online purchase after the DVD has been returned to the Vault.

    The concept of the Disney Vault is also being ignored by not releasing these properties. The Vault is a means to supress a product so that it can periodically be rereleased to much fanfair. Is Steamboat Willie really that much better than the Academy Award dominating Silly Symphonies?

    Disney have a say in the popularity of its older properties, be it attractions, films, television shows, etc. Disney does not fight the image of these products being old and stale, after enertaining for generations. Closing part of, or not maintaining an attraction portrays a lack of care on Disney's part and interest will be lost. Not releasing a real DVD (not the film on a disc in a cardboard sleeve) also generates a lack of interest. The saying goes "Don't fix what ain't broke", but that doesn't mean to allow product to rot.

    -- -- --

    Walt Disney was always looking to change and innovate his prodcuts. While we may never be able to fully answer "What would Walt do?" that should always be the strive. Change should not exist for the sake of change. Change should exist to offer a better product. Change should exist to improve, or at the very least maintain, quality.

  14. #59

    • Senior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    4,814

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheManator View Post
    Woah back - Pirates hasn't worked?

    Yeah, that Pirates ride over in NOS...what a SNORE!
    I'm not a fan of the Johnny Depp animatronics.
    I pledge allegiance to the Earth, one planet, many gods, and to the universe in which she spins.

  15. #60

    • Junior Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    213

    Re: "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?

    - Deleted - i had a really long and well worked response here but I lost it all due to stupid brower keyboard craziness. I am very mad right now Sorry.
    Last edited by idreamofjeani; 06-04-2007 at 11:23 PM.

Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Question] "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?
    By ManaByte in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 130
    Last Post: 03-16-2009, 04:21 PM
  2. The Definitions of Disney's Buzzwords, "Relevant" and "Change"
    By animagusurreal in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 04-27-2008, 11:01 PM
  3. What "one" word describes Disneyland?
    By Barbaraann in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 08-01-2005, 07:56 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •