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  1. #16

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    Nah

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jspider
    who knows

    but didn't Lord of The Rings do better BECAUSE it didn't try to stray from the books much :confused: I think Disney would be wise to do the same thing

    (yes I believe CS Louis was a Christian and he was also friends with Tolkien?)
    Sorry to correct, but its CS Lewis.

    I want to mention that is was Tolkien who led Lewis to the Christian faith. Both men believed very strongly and used many Christian parallels in their writings (though Lewis wrote more books on Christianity than Tolkien wrote). Narnia and Middle Earth are nothing more than allegories relaying Christian ideas and principles.
    In short, one cannot remove religious overtones from Narnia without it becoming something quite different. Something that Lewis' stepson (who is in charge of the film) would never allow.


    As to the idea of a land. I'm not sure it would work at DL, but it might work at AK. Its a bit of a stretch, but talking animals in a fantasy area of the park just might fit the bill.
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  3. #18

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    Why does this whole thing seem so closely tied to what Kevin (Yee) has been saying about the decline of Disneyland? I mean, I would love to experience the world of Narnia in a theme-park (Christianity rocks!), but it would require knowledge of outside source material. Personally, I'd be more interested in something like Geyser Mountain than something based on another Disney property. But hey, that's just my opinion.

    Of course as much as I enjoyed the Abarat books (it's about time he came out with the 2nd one, that took forever), I wouldn't even want to see THAT in a theme park. I think it's much more suited for books and movie theatres. Of course that also ties into the fact that it's a Clive Barker book and features vivid imagery.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrIndianaJones
    Sorry to correct, but its CS Lewis.

    I want to mention that is was Tolkien who led Lewis to the Christian faith. Both men believed very strongly and used many Christian parallels in their writings (though Lewis wrote more books on Christianity than Tolkien wrote). Narnia and Middle Earth are nothing more than allegories relaying Christian ideas and principles.
    In short, one cannot remove religious overtones from Narnia without it becoming something quite different. Something that Lewis' stepson (who is in charge of the film) would never allow.


    As to the idea of a land. I'm not sure it would work at DL, but it might work at AK. Its a bit of a stretch, but talking animals in a fantasy area of the park just might fit the bill.
    Respecting your allegory comment... while it may be true that the Narnia novels were such (and CS Lewis was a very prolific writer on Christianity following his conversion from atheism), "The Lord of the Rings" could hardly be classified as such. As a matter of fact, Dr. Tolkien loathed the idea of his works being considered as allegorical in any respect. While someone with religious leanings might be tempted to characterize certain themes in the works as indicative of Christian tenets and virtues, that was not Tolkien's intent, and throughout the books there are no direct references to any kind of religious observances (though, as you allude to, Tolkien was himself a devoted Catholic throughout his life). About the only thing that stands out in that regard to me was the brief mourning scene of Boromir by Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli following Boromir's demise. The writing concerning Middle Earth that does show some semblance of theological groundings is contained in "The Silmarillion" which, among other things, explains Middle Earth's creation myth and the fall of Morgoth through covetousness into evil, similar to the fall of Satan common to the Abraham-centric theologies.

    I know we're here to talk Disney, but I just wanted to straighten that point out. Thank you for indulging me, and let me add that I agree with Kevin Yee's article discussing the lack of original inspiration on the part of the current Disney creative folks who cannot seem to come up with many original ideas outside of a film property. This thread unfortunately drives that point home.
    Last edited by tonyrr1; 02-11-2005 at 02:30 PM.

  5. #20

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    Adding to the Lord of the Rings discussion is the fact that Disney Via Miramax turned down Pete Jackson and only wanted to make one movie. (Christian allegories aside that was one of the dumbest moves in recent years) It took New Line (Time Warner) to make middle-earth happen. With Tolkien's property sitting out there, fullydeveloped already, don't you think WDCo would do better importing TLOTR's? (Like they have done with Lucasflms)

    Sure like thats gonna happen..

    Ah the brilliance and imagination that is Disney Managment. And some of you belive they will build a new land around a new tentpole movie? They won't part with the cash even to make one Narnia film without Walden Media taking most of the risk. Look for Narnia to only slightly be better than Around the world in 80 days. I'll be pleasantly surprised if not.

    Jeff
    Last edited by Jeff In Orange County; 02-12-2005 at 11:04 AM.

  6. #21

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    No offense to your idea, but Narnia isn't disney status and it would suck big time.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyrr1
    Respecting your allegory comment... while it may be true that the Narnia novels were such (and CS Lewis was a very prolific writer on Christianity following his conversion from atheism), "The Lord of the Rings" could hardly be classified as such. As a matter of fact, Dr. Tolkien loathed the idea of his works being considered as allegorical in any respect. While someone with religious leanings might be tempted to characterize certain themes in the works as indicative of Christian tenets and virtues, that was not Tolkien's intent, and throughout the books there are no direct references to any kind of religious observances (though, as you allude to, Tolkien was himself a devoted Catholic throughout his life). About the only thing that stands out in that regard to me was the brief mourning scene of Boromir by Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli following Boromir's demise. The writing concerning Middle Earth that does show some semblance of theological groundings is contained in "The Silmarillion" which, among other things, explains Middle Earth's creation myth and the fall of Morgoth through covetousness into evil, similar to the fall of Satan common to the Abraham-centric theologies.

    I know we're here to talk Disney, but I just wanted to straighten that point out. Thank you for indulging me, and let me add that I agree with Kevin Yee's article discussing the lack of original inspiration on the part of the current Disney creative folks who cannot seem to come up with many original ideas outside of a film property. This thread unfortunately drives that point home.
    It is a little off topic, but there are christian themes in LOTR because it draws much from Wagner's Ring Cycle... And you see an end of the age of Magic (and with it those who serve the pagan gods), and the rise of the age of Men (the rise of Christanity)... I think this was on purpose...

    Back on topic: I am very troubled by the decision for Disney to produce the Narnia Chronicles... Not just because it is Christian allagory, which I think they will pull back... I really don't see how they can make all 7 stories work in film form... And is Disney willing to commit to 7 movies? I am telling you, I think they will pull the plug on the project after the two or three... The strongest films are the LW&W, Prince Caspian, Dawn Treader... But when they get to Horse and his Boy, and the Magicians Nephiew, Eisner will be thinking, "Why the hell did I agree to this?"

    To steal a line from Charles Barkeley: "I hope I am wrong... But I doubt it."

    I think you are more likely to see the full the Hitchhiker's Guide Trillogy move into Tomorrowland, if its good... It will be more likely that you will see a Marvin the Paranoid Android walking around... That film series has more potential has more distance... Provided that you don't try and do Mostly Harmless... Which was Mostly Horrid... Eisner has some distance with producing cheap space productions from working on Star Trek... So I am hopeful...

  8. #23

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    again off topic, but Tolkien based a great deal of his writings on myths and legends (mostly celtic) that had nothing to do with christianity. Some of the legends he used, have their core basis in stories that were around before christianity. Tolkien himself stated that his writings were his own version of some of the myths and legends that he loved to study. He also did abhor anyone even remotely referring to his stories as allegorical. I do personally subscribe to the theory that the time period had a hand in his thinking; hitler and the war, even though he categorically denied it his entire life. Just because there is good vs evil does not immediately imply christianity, those themes have been around since the dawn of man.

    As for the rise and fall, that could also imply the end of a more innocent age, and the ushering in of the new mechanized one. Tolkien did state that he was not terribly fond of the modern age, and felt there was more magic in the more innocent bygone times. To me, the entire Sauron thing actually screams this theme, and it has a interesting complication; to preserve what innocence was left, they had to take up some of the root ideas that sauron proposed that of destroying some of the old to make way for the new. Perhaps the age of man was Tolkiens way of saying that we should not be so presumptious to think we are the most important creatures on the planet, after all the ushering in of the age of men all but destroyed the other races that seemed to be put in a better light than ours. Its also sort of telling to me that those other races knew what was going to happen, but they unselfishly helped anyways, and most of the men are portrayed as either selfish or weak.

    ok end of soapbox carry on.
    Last edited by Tigertail777; 02-12-2005 at 05:44 PM.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by cellarhound
    Back on topic: I am very troubled by the decision for Disney to produce the Narnia Chronicles... Not just because it is Christian allagory, which I think they will pull back... I really don't see how they can make all 7 stories work in film form... And is Disney willing to commit to 7 movies? I am telling you, I think they will pull the plug on the project after the two or three... The strongest films are the LW&W, Prince Caspian, Dawn Treader... But when they get to Horse and his Boy, and the Magicians Nephiew, Eisner will be thinking, "Why the hell did I agree to this?"...
    OK one person out there interested in the topic... hehe
    Not shooting down the idea that a new property could become classic Disney... Roger Rabbitt, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Lilo and Stich even come to mind...

    But these stories have princes and lions and wizards and all kinds of fantasy characters, and it's such a long series that if the sequels keep coming like they do with Harry Potter, seems to me it's not such a stretch that Disney's new management post Eisner might latch on to their new 'baby' as New Line did with the force majeur of it's LOTR trilogy... and want to celebrate the NEW DISNEY with a new land...

    Remember Eisner's months are numbered.

    OK got yer tomatos ready.... Yesterland purists can go back to pooh poohing the whole thing again guys...

  10. #25

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    I loved the Narnia books, but I just don't see how they'd translate the Chronicles into rides. I don't think talking animals would do it; DL is already lousy with talking animals.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by SurfedUpDane
    No offense to your idea, but Narnia isn't disney status and it would suck big time.
    OK so back in January, I was the first to propose "NARNIA" as a new land between Frontierland and Fantasyland... You know the space they're thinking of for WOODY-JESSIELAND ? ? ? ?

    Those of you who watch this weekend's tv premiere of Harry Potter on ABC will catch the new trailer for "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe". It will also become available on AOL and is being seen on more screens this weekend than any movie trailer in history according to the Hwood trade papers. So Disney is going to be PUSHING BIG TIME on this thing, by attracting all the Potterfiles to their new movie property...

    So does everybody still hate my idea? Let me know after you've actually seen some footage from the movie. Then go watch Toy Story Two and a Half or whatever and get back to me.



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  12. #27

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    My thoughts... I don't feel comfortable walking into a land with a big next to it.

    Yes, "a bug's land", I'm looking at you.

  13. #28

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    I've been a Big C.S. Lewis fan for more years than I am wililng to admit. I have seen more lame adaptations of "Lion, Witch & Wardrobe" than I care to remember. THIS movie looks wonderful! The mix of live action and CG is very well done. A very good director doesn't hurt, either. Awesome movie And series of books, but would it make a whole land at Disney? Probably not.

    I'd love to see a dark ride with thrill elements come from this venture. But - what to put in?! If you were to properly tell the whole story you'd end up with a ride time of IASW and POTC combined! I keep having ideas but by the time I get them put on paper, the ride is Way too long and WAY too big.

    Each book would make a lovely ride - with the exception of The Last Battle, Much too sad.

    It would be Very hard to fit the themes of betrayal, redemption and resurrection and not have people complain that you are making it too Christian.

    For that very reason, I'd like to see the ride made from "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader". Lots of action, very distinct seperate acts and a wonderful chance to utilize water coaster technology. One minute you're flying along as Eustace in his Dragon form and the next you are afloat and moving on to the next island. No, it doesn't have to be a scary flume ride like Splash, but the ending of that book just BEGS for a drop of some sort. Yes, I know this is not the book that is being released Now, but Disney has said it plans to release All of the stories.

    Don't let the Christian element of this story scare you away if you're not of that bent. C.S. Lewis was a wonderful author - this person of an agnostic leaning heartily recommends reading the whole series!


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  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Momzilla59
    ...THIS movie looks wonderful! The mix of live action and CG is very well done. A very good director doesn't hurt, either. Awesome movie And series of books, but would it make a whole land at Disney? Probably not... Each book would make a lovely ride - with the exception of The Last Battle, Much too sad...
    Thank goodness I found a CS Lewis fan out there. I too, read the books as a kid and although I cant do a book report on them from memory any more, they were very immersive stories. Like a modern Wizard of Oz.

    Anyways, if there are so many books and so many characters and so many stories to tell from the series, why do you think "a whole land at Disneyland" is too much? We're talking one major "E" ticket and a meet the characters area, then if there's room for a couple of smaller rides and / or a restaruant or gift shop, we're done.

    We're talking about a land like CRITTER COUNTRY or TOON TOWN not like Tomorrowland which takes 1/2 the park.

    After you guys see the trailer, you may think OOOH AHHH.

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    Narnia is a guarenteed HIT so expect Disney to milk that franchise big time.

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