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  1. #1

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    Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    I was going to post this in a similar thread but I figured I should start a separate thread based on some thoughts that just came to me.

    I know Lincoln grew up in the Frontier and a lot of people advocate his moving to Frontierland, but I don't think this would work for a number of reasons.

    First, let's not forget that Lincoln was a President and would have lived in the White House for some years. The Main Street Opera House is done (at least the interior) in a style that is extremely reminiscent of the White House itself.

    Second, let's forget Pirates. If you are in the Frontier, why would you all of a sudden be stumbling upon Abraham Lincoln as he appeared during his Presidency? The only way a Lincoln attraction would work in Frontierland is if the attraction is changed to highlight his early years such as reading a book at the fireplace, chopping wood, or some other time before he became a lawyer. Sure, it could be argued that as President, he was merely visiting the Frontier but due to security reasons I doubt that he really did this that often. Let's not forget that as President there was more pressing issues that Lincoln had to attend to.

    Third, if Lincoln was in Frontierland, assuming they keep everything the same and leave him how he appeared in his Presidency, they still would have to change the final scene where the Capitol Building appears. It may not make much sense to be visiting Abraham Lincoln during his Presidency in the Frontier, but it makes even less sense that you are supposedly in the Frontier and all of a sudden you are looking right at the Capitol Building Dome.

    Fourth, it makes actually more sense thematically to keep him on Main Street. As I have stated the interior design of the Opera House is reminiscent of the White House and other stately buildings in Washington, DC. But just as much as one would have to stretch their imagination (as I have just explained) to accept him as President in Frontierland, one could argue that the Lincoln seen in the Opera House is an actor from early 1900’s America doing an homage to him.

    Just my two cents on the Lincoln in Frontierland issue...
    Last edited by DisneyIPresume; 07-03-2007 at 09:09 PM.

  2. #2

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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    Because it's always been there....and because it should be returned to where he's been for ALL of these years! That's simply why I think he should be returned to Main St.

  3. #3

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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
    The Victorian era (1832-1900)
    The 'Mictorian era' Main Street theme (circa 1900-1920)
    Hrmmmz .... from a historian's point of view I think Abe is a little early.

    KICK HIM OOT!

    I agree that he should remain on Main Street, but only because he doesn't fit on the frontier as a reflective post-presidency president. But having said that; there's not much room for an AA show in today's Disneyland.
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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    Quote Originally Posted by monotonehell View Post
    Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
    The Victorian era (1832-1900)
    The 'Mictorian era' Main Street theme (circa 1900-1920)
    Hrmmmz .... from a historian's point of view I think Abe is a little early.

    KICK HIM OOT!

    I agree that he should remain on Main Street, but only because he doesn't fit on the frontier as a reflective post-presidency president. But having said that; there's not much room for an AA show in today's Disneyland.
    I hate to say this, but being an Australian, I think you know more about American history than many Americans do!

  5. #5

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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    I think in either respect he is completely out of place. The show was designed around the Opera House, and therefore will logically be returned there regardless of opinions. However, the actor standpoint can be argued from anyplace. I think it would be more appropriate in Frontierland, and better suited as a museum, Gettysburg was in the middle of nowhere, many battlefields have plaques of "Lincoln stood here" and they are in the middle of nowhere... a great speech in the middle of nowhere isn't uncommon for him.
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  6. #6

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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I think in either respect he is completely out of place. The show was designed around the Opera House, and therefore will logically be returned there regardless of opinions. However, the actor standpoint can be argued from anyplace. I think it would be more appropriate in Frontierland, and better suited as a museum, Gettysburg was in the middle of nowhere, many battlefields have plaques of "Lincoln stood here" and they are in the middle of nowhere... a great speech in the middle of nowhere isn't uncommon for him.
    I had added this statement, but I edited it out, because I wanted to avoid the "What would Walt do?" speculating in the OP. But if you recall prior to Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln, they showed "The Walt Disney Story." And I distinctly remember Walt making a comment about his AA's that they are great "because they don't need coffee breaks." I know he was joking, and I acknowledge I may be stretching things a bit, but I think in a perfect world Walt would have preferred a live actor for the show. It's not like he used AA's for the Golden Horseshoe so that opinion has some back up.

    Also, weren't there snipers and stuff in the wilderness during the Civil War? I don't think Lincoln would be going for a casual stroll in the wilderness back then. I could be totally wrong though and I admit am guessing that is probably what happened...

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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    I think in a perfect world Walt would have preferred a live actor for the show. It's not like he used AA's for the Golden Horseshoe so that opinion has some back up.
    I agree but again the actor can be placed anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Also, weren't there snipers and stuff in the wilderness during the Civil War? I don't think Lincoln would be going for a casual stroll in the wilderness back then. I could be totally wrong though and I admit am guessing that is probably what happened...
    Even a better argument for a museum complete with a unit of civil war re-enactors that would be his escort and put everything into context.
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  8. #8

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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    Great post DisIP,

    While thematically he'd fit better in Frontierland, I think as a creature of habit, it would be tough to see him anywhere but Main Street. If they move him to Frontierland they will have to change everything. You bring up a lot of good points.

    Unless something with the civil war is put there, keep him on MS.

    Chad

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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    Put him on the stage of the Golden Horseshoe. More intimate setting.
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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    Quote Originally Posted by monotonehell View Post
    Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
    The Victorian era (1832-1900)
    The 'Mictorian era' Main Street theme (circa 1900-1920)
    Hrmmmz .... from a historian's point of view I think Abe is a little early.

    KICK HIM OOT!
    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I think in either respect he is completely out of place[...]
    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    [...]I would love to see it moved to Frontierland, in a more appropriate time period. Sure you can say... well there is a Steam train right next to a historic Opera House... but then one of the MS Cars drives by and ruins that effect.
    When Paul Frees was the narrator of the show (before its 2001 "John Cunningham" incarnation), he introduced Lincoln by saying,

    "We pay tribute here not to a man who lived a century ago, but to an individual who lives today in the hearts of all freedom-loving people. His prophetic words are as valid for our time as they were for his. And now, the talent of the artist and the skills of the sculptor will let us relive great moments with Mr. Lincoln."

    That was from memory so it may not be word-for-word, but the premise of the show is made clear. It is made obvious that Lincoln lived "a century ago" from us. We are reliving the president through this modern-day recreation of him. The opportunity to stay grounded in our time and see the relevence in his speech to today's world was a privilege. Compare this to the fantasy story, "Let's pretend to be a ficticious Union soldier named John Cunningham and get your hair cut so you look good in your picture and magically get invited to see Lincoln in office." Based more in the Civil War than on the president and his moving and emotional speeches, it's true that the most recent version of the show has less to do with Main Street than versions past.

    That being said, Lincoln is not a face character wandering down a town with lightbulb-trimmed buildings, motorized vehicles, and a 50-star flag. He is not juxtaposed with those things; he is standing in his office.



    With no Liberty Square to place him in, our typical American town of the early 20th century does him justice. Main Street U.S.A. breathes patriotism, and isn't that what the show is about? Anyone who bickers about how a president from the 1860's never would have seen an omnibus is missing the point.
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  11. #11

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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    I think Main Street was, and could be again, a great land. It's just that with the stores going generic, the details slipping, and no key attraction, there's nothing to anchor the land. Frontierland has similiar problems. Move Lincoln to Frontierland and open something that really feels like turn of the century optimism and patriotism with Telsa, Edison, and the other great inventors of the time.

    The last incarnation of Lincoln tried to put you in his time. That's 1860, not 1900. If only Disneyland had a land themed to 1860 America so he wouldn't have to feel out of place on a 1900 small town street.

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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    Quote Originally Posted by monotonehell View Post
    Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
    The Victorian era (1832-1900)
    The 'Mictorian era' Main Street theme (circa 1900-1920)
    I'm not sure where or when the uber-silly term "Mictorian" took over, but can we banish it now, please? Before it starts to take on a life of its own, like the "spike in the very center of Disneyland" or the "colorblind bulldozer operator?"

    Main Street represents America from 1890 to 1910--not 1900 to 1920. There is nothing whimsical about the architecture--although it may seem so to our 21st century eyes. The farther a people become removed from their own history, the more dilute it becomes (hence the perceived slip by some to place Main Street 10 years further into the 20th century than its founder intended). It's VICTORIAN, and represents several sub-classes, including Queen Anne and Eastlake.

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    Re: Why I think Lincoln should stay on Main Street

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I'm not sure where or when the uber-silly term "Mictorian" took over, but can we banish it now, please? Before it starts to take on a life of its own, like the "spike in the very center of Disneyland" or the "colorblind bulldozer operator?"

    Main Street represents America from 1890 to 1910--not 1900 to 1920. There is nothing whimsical about the architecture--although it may seem so to our 21st century eyes. The farther a people become removed from their own history, the more dilute it becomes (hence the perceived slip by some to place Main Street 10 years further into the 20th century than its founder intended). It's VICTORIAN, and represents several sub-classes, including Queen Anne and Eastlake.
    Bravo.

    Since the Main Street Cinema always played "The Great Train Robbery", as kid, I *knew* I was in 1903. I get rather confused these days though, what with Mickey Mouse Cartoons from 1930 playing in the cinema. I wish people knew a bit of history. Not the guests mind you, the people making choices about what goes into Disneyland. It was clear to me that Walt knew some history, and cared about it too. Then again, a movie about the opening of Dinseyland could have Walt watching Toy Story on his old style color TV and most people wouldn't think twice.

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