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  1. #31

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    alrighty

  2. #32

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    This, too, is my argument against going to all the trouble and expense of refurbing Autopia to an electric/hybrid-based tech. There is nothing futuristic about this tech anymore, so why rush headlong (once again) into obsolesence?
    The Autopia is the most ironic of all TL attractions. With all the 1955 predictions about future transportation, inadvertantly, the one that turned out to be most accurate was one that didn't pretend to be very futurist. Cars, cars, and more cars, as far as the eye can see.

  3. #33

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    The Autopia is the most ironic of all TL attractions. With all the 1955 predictions about future transportation, inadvertantly, the one that turned out to be most accurate was one that didn't pretend to be very futurist. Cars, cars, and more cars, as far as the eye can see.
    HA!! And even more prophetic: rampant vehicle operation with no license, insurance, or measurable driving ability!!

  4. #34

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    HA!! And even more prophetic: rampant vehicle operation with no license, insurance, or measurable driving ability!!
    Its like driving in Mexico

  5. #35

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another View Post
    Am I missing something!(BOLD mine)
    Yes, in fact, you have missed everything. But as I've explained my points quite clearly, I won't take up bandwidth to do so again. However, if you believe you have good counterpoints to my argument that perhaps the "Tomorrowland" theme might need to be altered, and the name "Tomorrowland" done away with, then I'd love to hear them.

  6. #36

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Dude let it go, your not even making new points, your just repeating yourself.

  7. #37

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHost2 View Post
    Tommorowland seems to be going in the wrong direction. I say redo the subs with a storyline similar to the original Submarine Voyage. Bring the People Mover back without a movie tie in. Stress the importance of public transportation in the future on the People Mover. Put an updated Carousel of Progress in the Carousel theater.
    Tomorrowland is moving in the WRONG direction, so to make it more futuristic, you suggest bringing back a bunch of rides from the 1960s?

    How is going back to the past going to create a realistic future?





    Quote Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another View Post
    What Tomorrowland lacks and is sorely in need of is a theme that consistently flows through out the land. We had it up until the 98 refurb. At that point Tomorrowland lost a cognitive direction. Tomorrowland needs a direction, any direction, it doesnt have to be motion, it does have to be futuristic.
    ????

    How was Tomorrowland's theme consistent before 1998? Captain EO? Star Tours? Space Mountain? I guess they were ALL about Space, but absolutely none of them presented a realistic view of the future.

    The only thing that gave Tomorrowland any consistency was the architecture and color scheme - which has changed little since 1998. Mostly that what links all the attractions in other lands together too. When you think about it, Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion have almost nothing in common. Pinocchio and Peter Pan have nothing in common as well. They all stand on their own.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another View Post
    That idea does not have merit, that idea is one of the huge reasons that TL98 failed. A look at the future from the eyes of a man who lived over a hundered years ago, thats not futuristic, thats a step in the wrong direction.
    First off, Tomorrowland 98 did not fail. The whole idea of the project was to change the theme of Tomorrowland from a realistic vision of the future, to a celebration of the IDEA of the future - realistic and fantasy - from all ages. Maybe it was too lofty of a goal, but it definitely has merit.

    And today, just above, we had someone asking for a return to Walt Disney's original vision of the future, despite the fact that his particular view of the future is over 40 years old now. Why suggest that Walt's view of the future is adequate for Tomorrowland, but some of the other great visionaries in the history of the world are not?

  8. #38

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    First off, Tomorrowland 98 did not fail. The whole idea of the project was to change the theme of Tomorrowland from a realistic vision of the future, to a celebration of the IDEA of the future - realistic and fantasy - from all ages. Maybe it was too lofty of a goal, but it definitely has merit.
    The physical execution of the 2055 idea (in my opinion) DOES fail and has as much credibility as chrome spray paint. You can't hang up a sign that says to the guest "if we only had the money". The "appliques of the future" and all the fake bronze didn't make me pine for "the future we never had". The jets and rocks out in the hub, and the speculator thing are a visual disaster. It made me want to go to the Apple Store where the REAL Tomorrowland lies. I agree with you that going back to "Waltstagia" does not bring us the future. Good points well made ;-)
    "As usual he's taken over the coolest spot in the house"- Father re: Orville 1963

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  9. #39

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    How was Tomorrowland's theme consistent before 1998? Captain EO? Star Tours? Space Mountain? I guess they were ALL about Space, but absolutely none of them presented a realistic view of the future.

    The only thing that gave Tomorrowland any consistency was the architecture and color scheme - which has changed little since 1998. Mostly that what links all the attractions in other lands together too. When you think about it, Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion have almost nothing in common. Pinocchio and Peter Pan have nothing in common as well. They all stand on their own.

    First off, Tomorrowland 98 did not fail. The whole idea of the project was to change the theme of Tomorrowland from a realistic vision of the future, to a celebration of the IDEA of the future - realistic and fantasy - from all ages. Maybe it was too lofty of a goal, but it definitely has merit.

    And today, just above, we had someone asking for a return to Walt Disney's original vision of the future, despite the fact that his particular view of the future is over 40 years old now. Why suggest that Walt's view of the future is adequate for Tomorrowland, but some of the other great visionaries in the history of the world are not?
    Have you ever hear of A World in Motion, It was Tommorowlands theme and tagline before the 98 refurb, The Subs, the Peoplemover, the SkyWay, Star Tours, The Rocket Jets, The Monorail, all about the different modes of transportation in the future.

    And a for TL98 failing, it was poorly excecuted, under funded, inconsistent and poorly themed. There is no doubt that it failed, it failed to draw crouds or to be well recieved, they took out more attractions than they put in and the ones that they did were hand-me-downs from other parks. Its just plain ugly.

  10. #40

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another View Post
    Dude let it go, your not even making new points, your just repeating yourself.
    That's you're argument?

    I should have seen the writing on the wall when your counterpoint to my suggesting that the Discoveryland idea had merit was simply, "The idea has no merit."

    Can't argue with logic like that!

  11. #41

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    And today, just above, we had someone asking for a return to Walt Disney's original vision of the future, despite the fact that his particular view of the future is over 40 years old now. Why suggest that Walt's view of the future is adequate for Tomorrowland, but some of the other great visionaries in the history of the world are not?
    Over 50 years old, in fact. However, this does not mean all wish for 1950's-1960's attraction to be re-installed (though I realize some do). I would love to see more attractions that showcase the 'ideal' future, implementation of new (yes, fantastical) technologies in order to show us the 'wonders of tomorrow'.

    I am sure some (maybe yourself) will dismiss this as empty rhetoric, all sound and fury signifying nothing; and maybe you are right (as you have stated in other postings), no one cares, really--at least not in numbers to warrant making any significant changes. But, I think it is not unreasonable to hold Disney to Disney's own self-imposed standards; unrealistic, maybe, but not unreasonable. But, I take solace in the idea that 'unrealistic' is Disney's stock-in-trade, and they often surprise me in delightful ways.

  12. #42

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    That's you're argument? I should have seen the writing on the wall when you're counterpoint to my suggesting that the Discoveryland idea had merit was simply, "The idea has no merit."

    Can't argue with logic like that!
    Dude, what the hell, Im not trying to argue with you, I dont care if you think your right or if you have to have the last word, I already made my points to what you have to say, if you feel like your making some point it lost on me, your just embarassing yourself, I made my points and you keep acting like I havent backed myself up so reread my post if you need to but let it go. Grow Up.

  13. #43

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another View Post
    Have you ever hear of A World in Motion, It was Tommorowlands theme and tagline before the 98 refurb, The Subs, the Peoplemover, the SkyWay, Star Tours, The Rocket Jets, The Monorail, all about the different modes of transportation in the future.
    Yeah and all of those rides were sitting right next to a 360 Movie Theater, A theater full of singing birds and donkeys, and Michael Jackson.

    And a for TL98 failing, it was poorly excecuted, under funded, inconsistent and poorly themed. There is no doubt that it failed
    It failed IN YOUR OPINION. I'm sure there were a lot of people who did enjoy it. After all while Cosmic Waves was still operating there were always people crowding around it, and the consistent 90 minute wait for the Rocket Rods proved that ride was a real winner.

    Just remember that, even if you don't particularly like something, that does not make it a failure.

  14. #44

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    It failed IN YOUR OPINION. I'm sure there were a lot of people who did enjoy it. After all while Cosmic Waves was still operating there were always people crowding around it, and the consistent 90 minute wait for the Rocket Rods proved that ride was a real winner.

    Just remember that, even if you don't particularly like something, that does not make it a failure.
    True and in you opinion it didnt fail, but the 90 minute waits just prove how bad the que, the capacity, and the 101s were. It was never popular.

  15. #45

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    Re: 'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    But, I think it is not unreasonable to hold Disney to Disney's own self-imposed standards; unrealistic, maybe, but not unreasonable. But, I take solace in the idea that 'unrealistic' is Disney's stock-in-trade, and they often surprise me in delightful ways.
    But what then, do you consider Disney standards when it comes to Tomorrowland? Remember that before Eisner, before Pressler, in the way back time when Walt's men were still in charge, they put a show in Tomorrowland that was full of singing and dancing birds.

    Is Tomorrowland meant to be realistic through and through - or is it meant to be a whimsical fantasy version of the future? Should Tomorrowland focus more on the Star Tours/Space Mountain side ... or more on the Monorail/Peoplemover side? I suppose that's really the big question.

    With Tomorrowland 98, Disney made the decision to go the fantasy route. Was that the wrong decision or will it help keep Tomorrowland fresh and entertaining for many years to come?

    And one last note... according to Walt's dedication of Tomorrowland, he wanted it to be a view into an actual working model of the future. There is an attraction that exists in Tomorrowland today that exactly follows that model, and it's called Innoventions. In fact Innoventions almost completely reproduced Walt's original Tomorrowland full of corporate sponsors and exhibits showcasing possible future technologies.

    Innoventions is the closest thing to Walt's original Tomorrowland, and it is easily, hands down, seen as the weakest attraction in all the park.

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