'Tomorrowland' is the Past; 'Todayland' is the Present and Future

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Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another

True and in you opinion it didnt fail, but the 90 minute waits just prove how bad the que, the capacity, and the 101s were. It was never popular.

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I guess the thousands of people who kept lining up for them were just in line to uh.... soak up air conditioning? Or maybe they were just too stupid to realize they were lining up for an unpopular ride?

So do you want to go tell all the people in line for Nemo that the ride isn't popular because of the bad queue, capacity, and downtime?

How do I make that face with the rolling eyes again?

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Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another

Dude, what the hell, Im not trying to argue with you, I dont care if you think your right or if you have to have the last word, I already made my points to what you have to say, if you feel like your making some point it lost on me, your just embarassing yourself, I made my points and you keep acting like I havent backed myself up so reread my post if you need to but let it go. Grow Up.

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Me? Try to get the last word? Perish the thought. ;)

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Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another

Dude, what the hell, Im not trying to argue with you.

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Really? Then what was this?

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Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another

That idea does not have merit, that idea is one of the huge reasons that TL98 failed. A look at the future from the eyes of a man who lived over a hundered years ago, thats not futuristic, thats a step in the wrong direction. Most of his ideas are already reality or defunct. The Nautilus, thats not futuristic at least Nemo has a futuristic twist. How about a helicopter and a drill to the center of the earth. They need to stop reusing old ideas and actually create something new and imaginative..

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Originally Posted by MrLiver

I guess the thousands of people who kept lining up for them were just in line to uh.... soak up air conditioning? Or maybe they were just too stupid to realize they were lining up for an unpopular ride?

So do you want to go tell all the people in line for Nemo that the ride isn't popular because of the bad queue, capacity, and downtime?

How do I make that face with the rolling eyes again?

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WHy do you think its gone, it never even worked right, you cant argue it. it was a horrible ride. People Rode it because it was new to most who dont go everyday. Start a poll and youll see, it was never popular. Im sure you loved it and it was a blast for you. GREAT!! But the fact remains it was poorly excecuted, underfunded, under maintained, badly engineered and not well recieved. And that you cant argue, look it up, google the reviews, check yesterland, do something cause your wrong, you loved it and thats great but it was not popular, it wasnt even open long enough to be popular, thats why there were long lines.

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Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another

WHy do you think its gone, it never even worked right, you cant argue it. it was a horrible ride. People Rode it because it was new to most who dont go everyday. Start a poll and youll see, it was never popular.

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I enjoyed the one time I got to ride it...And I had an AP.
You're...young...aren't you?

Thats my opinion.

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Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another

Thats my opinion.

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But you present it as fact. Heck, you even use the word...

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Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another

But the fact remains it was poorly excecuted, underfunded, under maintained, badly engineered and not well recieved.

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Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano

I enjoyed the one time I got to ride it...And I had an AP.
You're...young...aren't you?

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Your ...old...aren't you?

:lol:

Im J/K Steve

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Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano

But you present it as fact. Heck, you even use the word...

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Thats a different post about a different subject, granted in the same thread, it is about the rocketrods not Tomorrowland relavance.

Now who's misconstruing facts.

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Originally Posted by 1disneynut2another

WHy do you think its gone, it never even worked right, you cant argue it.

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It's gone because it didn't work right. The maintenance budget was huge, and the cost to bank the track was more than Disney wanted to spend at the time.

That doesn't mean that people didn't like the ride.

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it was a horrible ride. People Rode it because it was new to most who dont go everyday. Start a poll and youll see, it was never popular.

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The question isn't whether it was popular with Disney fans on the internet. The question is, was it popular with folks in general. The consistent 90 minute wait for at least 2 years seems to say it was. People don't line up for an unpopular ride.

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Im sure you loved it and it was a blast for you. GREAT!!

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I absolutely hated that ride. The noise alone from the ground was worst than visiting the dentist.

But I'm not so blinded by my prejudices to ignore the fact that the ride was pretty popular with the masses. People just don't wait in a 90 minute line for a ride that's not popular.

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Originally Posted by MrLiver

People don't line up for an unpopular ride.

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Oh thats scientific reasoning. It was new, it never worked so most never even rode it.

Mod Note:

Let's try to stick to the topic of this thread and not stray off into personal attacks. You may disagree with the post, but may not attack the poster.

Some people -- or should I say, the same people -- just take this stuff too seriously.

Tomorrowland is fine. The things that would improve Tomorrowland are not attractions that specifically cater to the future, but simply more good attractions in general that fit even loosely with the theme of the area.

Personally, I don't care what the theme is of the People Mover is -- just bring it back. Buzz is fun. Star Tours rules. Star Tours II will rule too. I'm happy just to see the Nemo Subs back in action to care how futuristic it is. Tomorrowland has some great attractions and it's one of the best areas of the park -- period.

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Originally Posted by MrLiver

But what then, do you consider Disney standards when it comes to Tomorrowland? Remember that before Eisner, before Pressler, in the way back time when Walt's men were still in charge, they put a show in Tomorrowland that was full of singing and dancing birds.

Is Tomorrowland meant to be realistic through and through - or is it meant to be a whimsical fantasy version of the future? Should Tomorrowland focus more on the Star Tours/Space Mountain side ... or more on the Monorail/Peoplemover side? I suppose that's really the big question.

With Tomorrowland 98, Disney made the decision to go the fantasy route. Was that the wrong decision or will it help keep Tomorrowland fresh and entertaining for many years to come?

And one last note... according to Walt's dedication of Tomorrowland, he wanted it to be a view into an actual working model of the future. There is an attraction that exists in Tomorrowland today that exactly follows that model, and it's called Innoventions. In fact Innoventions almost completely reproduced Walt's original Tomorrowland full of corporate sponsors and exhibits showcasing possible future technologies.

Innoventions is the closest thing to Walt's original Tomorrowland, and it is easily, hands down, seen as the weakest attraction in all the park.

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Oh, Liver, your postings are positively Pavlovian. Innoventions' one shining jewel is its only 'futuristic' offering: ASIMO. In ASIMO, Innoventions is a success--but he is not enough to carry the attraction alone; just as Space Mountain and the Monorail are not enough to carry 'Tomorrowland'. Disney's TL dedication should be its mission statement--subject to interpretation? Yes; but there is a whole other land more appropriate to explore this pure 'fantasy route' of yours.

It is oh so popular to cite thematic mistakes as justification for committing even more. I, and others, are as tired of that argument as they are as tired of listening to my rebuttal. If that's all you got, let's skip the entire debate. If you believe so strongly in not looking back for thematic inspiration, why do you continually look to the past mistakes of TL to support your arguments?

In the end, we measure success differently, and the different elements that contribute towards the ultimate definition of success. Attendance numbers reflect the fact that people love Disney for its successes and in spite of its mistakes--this is not to be confused with apathy, or a license to dismiss the principles that DL was founded on: excellence, in so far as it is able to be acheived. Why give less when it is within your power to give more?

But, you may be right: Rocket Rods, the Observatron and the TL '98 refurb was a wild success; thematic blunders should continue unchecked because, after all, they have happened before; and people will continue to flock to Disneyland and enjoy the scraps they toss them because, like you say, they really don't know any better, or deserve anything else.

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Originally Posted by KISSman

Some people -- or should I say, the same people -- just take this stuff too seriously.

Tomorrowland is fine. The things that would improve Tomorrowland are not attractions that specifically cater to the future, but simply more good attractions in general that fit even loosely with the theme of the area.

Personally, I don't care what the theme is of the People Mover is -- just bring it back. Buzz is fun. Star Tours rules. Star Tours II will rule too. I'm happy just to see the Nemo Subs back in action to care how futuristic it is. Tomorrowland has some great attractions and it's one of the best areas of the park -- period.

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Then why bother with theme at all? Why even have a 'Tomorrowland"? Why not just random attractions scattered wherever they best fit the real estate?
Liver must be referring to attitudes like these when he infers that the bare minimum is good enough for an apathetic audience. Do you get a commission from Liver, or something (you may deserve one for illustrating his points so conveniently :) )?;)