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  1. #166

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by patattack View Post
    i cant think of any disabilities that someone could have where they could actually use a segway.

    disabilities that require wheelchairs but can also go on a segway

    please name some
    Asthma, emphysema are the ones I can think of. You're balance isn't so much affected, as is the ability to walk long distances. My dad used to have a handicap plackard for his emphysema.

    I've never ridden a segway, so I honestly wouldn't be able to comment on anything about whether the handicapped could or couldn't ride them.

    Just a few thoughts.

  2. #167

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    It is very interesting to me that even in the disabled community, there is still a class-system. According to this guy, it is better to be disabled in a Segway, than to be disabled in a wheelchair.....


    ".....But Meredy Jenkins, a 55-year-old graphic designer in Orlando who has multiple sclerosis, said many people don't want to use wheelchairs or scooters because they have to sit.
    "They want you to sit in a wheelchair and feel even more handicapped," Jenkins said. "Most people I know aren't ready to sit down. It's an insult...."




  3. #168

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by penguinsoda View Post
    We here at MiceChat try to not "over moderate" the site as much as possible. We value the opinions and ideas of all of our members, and are glad to give the members an open forum in which to share their ideas and opinions. We don't just arbitrarily close a thread because the thread seems to be going in circles, because members don't agree with the thread starter or other members, or at the request of someone other than the thread starter, when no actual rules have been broken or other violations have occured other than potential "trollish" like behavior (which in this case, is borderline and open to interpretation).

    The team will continue to monitor all threads on the site, and if the team determines action needs to be taken then we will take it.

    In the mean time, if you don't agree with the TS or if you think this subject has been beaten to death with no resolution, simply... stop posting here. If no one posts... the thread will quietly pass away...
    Okie-dokie...sounds reasonable!

    susabelle

  4. #169

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    My biggest fear with a Segway is the safety systems that keep the device balanced and stop it quickly. The simply fact is that nothing is full proof. A Segway has the potential to fail and fall over. It doesn't matter if the Segway is designed to stay up and warns of low battery. There is still the potential of unforseen failure.

    This is also Disneyland, located in southern California. Getting them into the hand of irresponsible riders (such as teenagers) would probably not be very difficult. Yes, there could be a policy of only allowing disabled Segway users, but there is no current means of verification. I have personally seen people (at Six Flags mostly) swap items such as crutches or go running off only to realize they forgot the wheelchair that got them to the front of the line. People, sadly, abuse the system.

  5. #170

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    Ok im replying to this one post because I didnt mention before but that I invent now that I am disabled and I am working on a smaller lighter safer version of a segway!!!!! One that you basically can wear over your clothes with flexible solar panels and keep it on you as you transfer in and out of ride vehicles or cars, because I wanted something even more suited to my needs! :-)

    There's a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow, Just a Dream Away!.....
    If that is your goal then work on it, dream, design and build upon that which you are devoted most to. When bicycles came out it was "unfashionable" for women to ride them, because they had to wear pants. It took a lot of work but eventually they created the modern bike. Airplanes and Autos followed a similar path. Both were extremely bulky, awkward, and dangerous machines when they were first built. Now they are the normal methods of travel. Even the wheelchair itself has come a long way. New chairs have a pyramid shaped design to better support the individual and improve movement. The chairs are lighter and more comfortable. No longer are you forced to sit in a 1900 straightbacked chair with giant wheels (I've sat in one). Even the 1970's chair is slowly becoming a dinosaur you only encounter in hospitals and park rentals. With a combination of graphite, lightweight fabrics, bicycle parts and innovative thoughts wheelchairs HAVE improved and continue to do so. Sorry it took me a while to find your post, I would have responded sooner had I seen it earlier.

    Good Luck in your pursuit of your dreams!
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  6. #171

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    Thumbs up Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffYardDog View Post

    The OP has a disability that she feels is helped by the use of Segway and feels very passionately about that and advances arguments that sometimes lack balance and tends to ignore the arguments presented by others.

    That hardly justifies a statement like:

    "This person's posts do not in any way contribute positively to the MiceChat community, and in my opinion are very much a negative force here."

    She raises a lot of consciousness about the issue even if she drew questionable conclusions about the issues involved.

    It's not clear if you comment is advocating censorship or worse, but it seems like an excessive and inappropriate reaction to someone just because of popular disagreement.

    Enough Meta-argument for me ...
    Agreed. I actually found this thread to be quite entertaining. I had to log-off yeasterday while only half way through reading it and hurriedly came back this morning to finish because the topic held my interest so well.

    Although (IMOP) the OP laid out some pretty outlandish arguments, it did get me thinking about the subject and I really enjoyed reading the responses.

    Thanks-

  7. #172

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    I was offended by the unfair implied accusations of bigotry of Disney.

    However, I think some of you are bashing GM unfairly. Some of her arguments were invalidly constructed, but that doesn't mean she is trolling at all.

    And in fact, I think bashing her for trolling is itself trolling. Some of you are being ridiculously mean at this point and that's not right. We may not agree with her view that Disney should allow disabled Segway use, but she is still a loved and respected member of Micechat. It's not right to castrate a poster just because she stands alone on an issue. That's not trolling. That's just passion. Sometimes passion makes people make unfair arguments against other entities. But again, it's not trolling.

  8. #173

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Well, now I'm in a bit of a quandry. It seems that my view is somewhat unpopular (though not completely so), and people have presented valid arguments against it. Should I:

    a) Re-evaluate my position based on evidence and arguments that seem to bear merit;

    b) Examine the arguments presented against my statements and attempt to mount a logical and well-reasoned defense of my position; or

    c) Completely ignore those arguments, however valid, and press on with my points?

    Option 'a' would appear to be the most rational approach, with 'b' taking second place. Yet 'c' seems to be completely acceptable behavior and is even viewed as constructive. What to do?

    Oh, wait -- I forgot about the option of disappearing and not responding at all. Too late for that, I suppose.

    So I'll drop the sarcasm and choose 'a'.

    I can see how using the word "trollish" could have been a bit overboard. If I have offended anyone, I apologize. For whatever reason, I did take a bit of offense at the OP's lack of respect for the research and experience of other members of the MiceChat community, several of whom are disabled. These people are not only well-respected here, but also have a strong understanding of the applicable laws. That the OP's subsequent posts blithely ignored and/or dismissed their knowledge struck me as foolish, at the very least. Personally, I think the posts could easily be considered boorish.

    But now that I have had time to reflect and consider the points raised by others, it seems I erred by pulling the 'troll' card. I do, however, fully stand by my other statements.

  9. #174

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    I too will apologize for usung the word "trolling". I admit I was wrong to use that word. Perhaps the OP is just EXTREMELY passionate about her Segway use and I do not want to offend anyone here. I am disabled, as is my husband and we both found the arguments for Segway use in the Parks not to hold water when you measure the safety of others against their use. I would rather sit my butt in a wheelchair all day and have someone push me around at my beck and call than use one of those. but then I always did have a Cleopatra complex! Just kidding...I have had to learn to laugh at things that I am forced to do or cannot do due to my disability; If if I did not, I would just lie in bed all day and cry about my dwindling body. There are a lot of things in life I will not be able to do anymore, I just thank God I had an opportunity to do them at one time, "Tis better to have loved and lost, then never to have loved at all." This applies to many things, like running, playing tennis, rugby, being at the Air Force Academy (like my hubby). We were able to experience many things when we had mobility and were not disabled and I love remembering how it felt to "run like the chill Autumn breeze" (thanks to Buckycat from Get Fuzzy for the quote!). If I meditate, I can put myself there like it was actually happening and have that experience all over again. Do I get frustrated? You betcha! Do I cry sometimes? Absolutely. But I am learning to live within the limits of my body, which sadly is not done disabling itself. I have more frustrating years ahead and I can only imagine the pain and depression, but for now I have to enjoy what I have.

    DH has had it MUCH, MUCH worse. Motorcycle accident at age 21, Major Brain trauma, 6 month coma, 3 months semi-comatose hearing the docs say to his parents he would not make it right front of him, died 4 times in hospital, was written off by the docs as a vegetable when he could not respond after coming out of the coma they said he would die in, and after 2 & 1/2 yrs in hospital, another 6 months in a rehab facility, into his own home with a yr of wheelchair to walker to being able to get around on his own two feet now, graduated UC Berkeley with a 4.0 GPA, 10 yrs after his acident proving the docs wrong! BUT he is still in agony, 24/7 after over 65 surgeries to various parts of his body due to the damage to the motor part of his brain. The pain can get unbearable for him. He refuses to take the opiate drugs that numb his brain and ONLY will take one when it is beyond his capability of standing the excruciating agony which does come at times. Then he takes his pill and lies down to rest. But he is one of the winners! And a keeper! His courage and patience amaze and humble me. Here is someone that was dead that still has a lot to do! And boy oh boy, he IS doing it. I CANNOT keep up with him! He is someone who has learned HOW to live within his disabliity.
    At DL and WDW, we have trouble with him getting in and out of attraction vehicles. He is 6ft 1 and 225 lbs and disabled. It is hard to move his limbs in a way to get in and out fast. He just CANNOT move that fast. But we have managed to enjoy many things that he CAN do there and he loves DL. I am a little more able RIGHT NOW to get in and out of attraction vehicles, but will not go without him. It is getting more difficult for me to enjoy the attractions that have a lot of bumping and jerking and that make your body move a lot, ie; Space Mt. GRR, Indy (a big no-no for me!)
    DH WILL go on these attractions at times when he has a good day and we HAVE to experience GRR at least once per trip. We pay for it at the end of the day. So, we do not get to experience ALL the attractions, there are enough that we CAN! And going through the pre-attraction queue is a GREAT idea to get some of the magic. THAT was a great idea from the OP!
    DH more than anyone I have ever known understands just what disability is and what it does to your life. He will NOT let it stop him and if he needs a wheelchair at times he will use it, (rarely). I am the one with back and leg problems that keep me from walking or standing any longer than 1/2 hr on a bad day to 2 hrs on a good day. Interesting that when we are in California or Florida, I do not have as much pain as here in the Mile High City. I think that the air pressure up here at altitude has something to do with the pressure on my spine and joints. I still have problems at the lower altitudes, mind you, but they are not as bad. I am the one with the pain meds, because I am a bigger wimp than DH and I cannot take the excruciating nerve pain in my back and legs. It cripples me to the point I cannot stand. It gives me spasms where I cannot unfold my body and straighten out my legs or torso. That is infrequent, thank god, but I know that the deterioration is going to continue as it does with arthritis and aging and I will have to adjust accordingly as millions of people have over many years. I will probably rag about it the whole way! Poor DH!!!
    I guess I just wanted to say that with all our disabilities and they are going to get worse, I still think about others! And I do not want to be the source of discomfort or injury to others, due to a personal desire for something that possible could cause that. There are solutions to the disabled getting around the Parks right now. With inventions and technology, the future looks very bright for even more possibilities. I look forward to what the future holds for those of us mobility impaired.
    But I do not believe that segways are the answer right now, because they are NOT designed for the disabled ONLY and anyone can have one. That means that anyone could claim the right to bring one in if you allow the disabled to bring them in. That would be a disastrous scenario for the Parks. It might even cause more disabilities by accidents on them. From experience, I can tell you, I do not wish that on anyone.
    And I just wanted to let everyone know on this thread that I meant NO disrespect for the OP. I am sorry if it was worded in a way that came across that way. Disability is a VERY personal issue with me.
    Peace everyone!
    Susabelle
    Last edited by Susabelle; 07-30-2007 at 08:31 AM.

  10. #175

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Hey if they're doing Segway tours then by all means it would be great to let those folks who use Segways and are disabled also take part in the tours, but for use in the crowded parks they are just not appropriate.

    I can't see where it's a conspiracy by Disney to not let them in the park during normal operating hours, they are just concerned about safety.

    I've never been on one and would love to try one out, those tours sound fun!

    If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation.
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  11. #176

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Toast View Post
    Are Segways even classified as a "medical device"? I think that's the big question that I have. Even on the official Segway homepage, I don't find mention of "medical device" anywhere... if it's not specifically classified as an official "medical device" by the appropriate governmental agencies... then this whole debate is moot.
    There's the point. The OP stated that Disney's argument was because Segways are not FDA approved. (and proceeded to misinterpret that statement).

    What this really means is that a Segway is NOT an FDA approved medical device, and therefore Disney is under no obligation to allow them in their parks to assist disabled guests. Unless and until the makers of Segway seek and receive FDA approval for that purpose, it is 100% Disney's discretion.

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