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  1. #46

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    A Segway weighs a fraction what a ecv does and so has less mass momentum also by its very nature of operation if you "bump" up against someone they pushes the balance of the vehicle upward and causes it to stop on a dime...

    you can see videos of this online if you run into the back of someone it just gentley moves up and stops.
    You must learn the art of Multi-Quote..... IF one of these things hits me I could care less, I'm 6'4 so they'll realize they bumped me. If they bump my son who's a little over 3ft, or either of my daughters, would they even notice or would they try to press on and keep going (watched people do this running into a curb with a Segway... HYSTERICAL)

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    Only experienced riders should ever use one in public, I only took me a few minutes to become proficient at using one.
    Congrats... that puts you above the masses at Disneyland who can't figure out how to back up let alone go forward without stopping every couple feet. Watching it is like watching someone learning to use the clutch, which is usually in a parking lot and not on a freeway.

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    they did fix that initial bug its now not a problem it was simply the case of riders not paying attention to the battery indicator and running till the battery died now it beeps to warn you and it will slow down and stop itself now while there is power left to do so when it runs out.
    I can only image the calls for help on this one.... people in Disneyland CAN'T FIGURE OUT what a beep means and NEVER realize when their power is out. They will be calling SCREAMING that it's not working and just stopped. I can GUARANTEE that one.

    Which leads me to another point. Disneyland is an International venue. How would you propose training these individuals to use the Segway considering the multilingual multicultural atmosphere? I believe that if and when Segway becomes the standard replacement for the wheelchair it will be seen in a variety of public places and tourist destinations as a standard rental. Until then, and until the public at large is more familiar with them, they will be a modern novelty and a sales pitch for promotions and tours. I do not doubt their benefit, I doubt the competence and the intelligence of people in large numbers.
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  2. #47

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    exactly I want to travel LIKE A PERSON WHO IS WALKING by using a segway since I CANNOT TRAVEL BY WALKING LIKE A REGULAR PERSON ANYMORE

    the whole point is that it gives you back as close as is possible the sensation and freedom of just being able to walk again in the same position and speed as your friends!
    I understand your desire to walk like you used to. My husband wants to do the same and play tennis and rugby and run and even be able to wake up each morning without excruciating pain 24/7, but the reality is, he will never be able to do these things again and he has had to change his way of thinking about life. Yes, it sucks and it is not fair, but it is reality. He has been disabled since he was 21 yrs old and he is now 43 and guess what? He still has a great life and goes to Disneyland and does not bitch about having to take everything more slowly than he did before. He even stops to smell the roses because his life has slowed down more. Hell, he even gardens and grows his own roses! If I were in your shoes or his, I probably would be angry about my disability as well! In fact, I am developing debilitating arthritis and cannot walk for more than an hour at a time now and I am only 53 yrs old. I take heavy drugs just to numb the pain. I cannot even imagine what my body will be like in 5 years, or 10 yrs. But you can bet hubby and I will be having wheelchair races and swimming and doing EVERYTHING we do now and still have fun. I am not going to take up the flag of demanding Segways for the disabled in the Parks. Sometimes in life we have to deal with what God gives us and I still think Segways would be too dangerous in a crowd!
    Peace!
    sues

  3. #48

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    When I ride a segway its gyro stabilization replaces my nonfunctioning balance I dont understand why people who neither have this disability nor have been on a segway dont get it.
    Not sure how it 'replaces it' considering the way you tell the segway to move is to lean forward or back. If you can't control that lean.. you can't control it's motion - unless they provide alternate controls for forward/backwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    Oddly no one seems to address the issue of the making money on segway rentals on the one hand and baning disabled people from using them on the other!
    Because the risks out weigh the profits. I can sell crack and make money too.. but should I?

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    Also segways are lighter and smaller than the big heavy ecv chairs I personnally having used both find the segway much safer for both rider and the public.
    But ECVs don't fall over and don't need support to stay upright (try 'parking' a segway). ECVs may be heavier, but don't topple over on flat ground either.
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  4. #49

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    I have taken a mobility scooter into disneyland many times without them giving any trouble THAT IS ALSO NOT FDA APPROVED
    Curious, did you buy your scooter outright with no medical insurance assistance?

    Don't convolute the issue of you potentially using a varient of a medically approved device vs one that has not been at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    because the segway is new technology and innovative it needs only 2 wheels its that simple.
    It's not new at all.. and the FDA hasn't had issue approving other technology from the company
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  5. #50

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    This is Susabelle's husband:

    I am disabled, having endured more than 65 surgical procedures. I cannot physically do what I used to do. My injury was a major Head Trauma which resulted in damaging my motor skills. I know my limitations, and I do not attempt activities which would endanger myself or others. I would love nothing more than trying out a Segway; However, I wish to do so in a safe environment for all. Disney crowds are definitely not what I would consider a safe environment for Segways. As limiting as they are, a wheelchair is still the safer alternative.

    Susabelle's hubby, Ralph

  6. #51

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    This is an issue that I have been contemplating for a long time.

    Here's the reason:

    Back in 2005, I was working as a park greeter at Epcot on New Year's Eve. A very nice family wanted to enter the park with their son who also wished to utilize a segway-like device for mobility. After contacting managers and looking over the Disney policy, they decided that the device could not be used inside the park. This was just under two years ago, and I'm surprised this wasn't a bigger issue earlier.

    Here are my thoughts on the issue...

    I agree with Disney in this case. I do not think the segways should be allowed in the parks yet, maybe someday, but I do not think they are ready for them yet. I am not in anyway trying to be insensitive to my disabled peers, I would like everyone to know this.

    My reasons are simple. First and foremost, the Segway requires a constant power source to remain mobile. Any guest who would wish to use a segway in the park should have to sign a waiver releasing Disney of any fault in the case of any accident involving one. As an accident is unlikely to cause injury to the user exclusively, especially in the often crowded conditions at Disneyland, Disney's liability risks would be staggering. As they cannot force patrons who are not using the devices to sign similar waivers, the logistics are simply incomprehensible.

    The second reason, and this is straight from the night I was working, is that the Segway has yet to be classified by its designer as a medical device. This is completely different from FDA approval. While it would be ideal for the FDA to approve its use in that manner, the manufacturer at least must say it can be used for medical purposes. (Note: This was the case in 2005, the manufacturers may have included this use in device literature, I apologize if this is the case) Without general acceptance of the object as a medical device, Disney might as well allow skateboards and rollerblades as well, in this case its a technicality issue.

    Third, this is the most blunt reason. Disney still has the right to determine which devices can be used in their parks. If they consider the risk to be too great, there is no legal reason why they should allow the devices in their parks. The tours they give are novelty, they are controlled, and they are limited. Back when I worked at Epcot, another park known for its segway tours, a waiver was required, as well as a helmet, and any other required protective wear. I would hope these would be required as well if Disney were ever to allow personal segway use.

    Finally, I would not allow them for the simple fact that it would be almost impossible to make a judgement as to who can use one and who can not. What would the determining factors be? Would personal segway use be limited only to those with a certain illness or disability? Would someone with say, a sore back qualify to use the device in the park. Should Disney allow anyone with a reason to use the device? Eventually there would have to be limits, and like any other new technology, society has yet to put limits on how far that technology should be used.

    To end this, I just want to say that I wish everyone could use what they needed to ensure the best possible experience at a theme park, be it Disney or otherwise. However, I have learned in my experience as a designer as well as a cast member that sometimes even good things have to have limits. I do not agree with Disney blindly as some of my previous posts will confirm. But, for the time being, I think Disney is making the correct decision.
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  7. #52

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Segways and ECV's should be banned. ECV's are a hazzard to guests and most guests who rent them at DL (not guest who own and bring their own) have no idea how to use them or manuever them. Only wheelchairs should be allowd in DL. We did fine with them for over 40 years... Ban ECV's along with Segways!

  8. #53

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    I think your confused a bit, I am talking about disabled people who own their own segway and use it to get around so they would already be very familiar with it in advance I am not advocating providing segways for guests that have no previouis experience at this time....

    the tour that disney is running has nothing to do with disabed individuals but is a $99 3 hr event that starts at 7am with a breakfast then signing a waiver then training before a 1 hr only usage of the segway

    my point is how would you feel if you were disabled and discovered that using a segway allowed you to regain your old mobility better than any other device like a wheelchair and you owned one and used to get arouind every day and then wanted to go to Disneyland your favorite place in the world specially now that you are unable to work and your health is failing with an incurable disease and they refuse to let you get in with it

    then you find out that they turn around and are selling $99 segway tours

    how would that make you feel?

    I know its hypothetical because if you are not ill and not in pain and on medication and daily seeing your life become more limiting you cannot imagine the pain and the joy of a new technology that makes your life better a little bit and isnt new technology to improve our lives something that Disney is or was all about?

    I put this question to all interested readers

    thanks

  9. #54

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by Susabelle View Post
    This is Susabelle's husband:

    I am disabled, having endured more than 65 surgical procedures. I cannot physically do what I used to do. My injury was a major Head Trauma which resulted in damaging my motor skills. I know my limitations, and I do not attempt activities which would endanger myself or others. I would love nothing more than trying out a Segway; However, I wish to do so in a safe environment for all. Disney crowds are definitely not what I would consider a safe environment for Segways. As limiting as they are, a wheelchair is still the safer alternative.

    Susabelle's hubby, Ralph
    I completely sympathize and agree with you that there are many disabillies for which a segway might not be appropriate but there are many that are like the ones I mentioned originally like MS.

    illnesses where you dont really need a wheelchair but you cant walk fast or well or for any useful distance and trying wears you out. yes a wheelchar or ecv like mine works too but imagine a device that lets people with this condition be able to move around as close to a walking person as possible thats a segway

    many MS and CFIDS patients that have tried them swear by it and there is movement to get them officially declared medical assistance devices for some disabilities

    see the links in the original posts for more details the DRAFT site is one fine example in this case for Vets to get official segway recognition even dual leg amputees use segways safely to get around YES they do!

    I was never advocating nor was disney advocating the usage of segways by the general guest public who have no prior experience I am talking about disabled patients who have found the use of a segway ideal for their particular conditions and already own one and already use it and are thoroughtly experienced users...

    how would such people be any threat to anyone?

    should they, I, be denied the usage of a device that helps them and that they may use in their daily life to regain mobility?

  10. #55

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post

    then you find out that they turn around and are selling $99 segway tours
    well, since the tours are before the parks open, then perhaps a person who does own their own segway should contact disney and see if they can use their own segway for the before operating hours tour.

    so the question...how would it make me feel if I owned a segway and I found out disney was offering a paid tour before the parks open on segways. I really doubt I would care, unless I really wanted to do the tour and use my own segway.

    I don;t see how you are relating a before operating hours tour to using them in the park during operating hours. Quite the leap. Maybe I would be upset if they were allowing segways for rent in the parks to anyone and I was told I could ot bring my own it. That is not the case though.

  11. #56

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    how would such people be any threat to anyone?

    should they, I, be denied the usage of a device that helps them and that they may use in their daily life to regain mobility?
    Unfortunately, anytime someone is depending on something that has the potential to fail without notice, they can be a threat. Now I'm not saying that they would be or that an incident like that could ever happen, but imagine the kind of pressure Disney would come under from their insurance company. All it would take is one lawsuit from someone who was hit by a segway, or tripped over one, or any countless things, to end the segway debate forever. I almost think its better to let the issue press further, until society determines if the segway will enter the mainstream or not.

    If I had to guess, I think the root of this entire issue comes from accident liability and insurance.

    The recent massive segway recall is not really going to help the matter out much.
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  12. #57

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    A very interesting topic. It even compelled me to google "segway for disabled" and read up on the subject. I did find several articles and message board posts that provide many examples of how a segway has improved the quality of life for those with certain disabilities--most commonly cited were MS, polio and arthritis. I don't doubt that this is a device that can help people with disabilities.

    That doesn't mean Disney should allow them in the parks. Disney provides alternative means of transportation for those with disabilities. The Segway has not been approved by the FDA as a medical device. And the Segway company itself does not market it as such. The iBOT wheelchair--which was also invented by Dean Kamen of Segway--is marketed and sold as a medical device because it specifically has FDA approval.

    However, I do want to be more forward-thinking about this topic and realize that new and emerging technologies should be evaluated for disabled use. To that point, picking on Disney is not the battle to fight. It's a drop in the bucket. For comparison, I believe there is still a ban on Segways in public places in San Francisco and in public places in the entire country of Britain. Advocates of Segway use for the disabled should be lobbying for FDA approval and for recognition from other government agencies (e.g. Dept. of Transportation) as a medical device. Once the Segway is officially recognized as a medical device, then I would have no objection to seeing disabled guests riding them in the parks.

  13. #58

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Its rather amusing how some people just justify there needs over the safety of others.

    ECV's have small wheels that are have body molding behind and in front of them. Notice how everyone says being "bumped" by ECV's, not RUN OVER! The Segway has very big exposed wheels, and in a crowd, you cant keep an eye on everyone’s feet.

    Disney knows that there are safety issues with the Segway, and holds its Segway tours when, suprise! There is nobody in the park! The other tours, are held DURING PARK HOURS! GET A CLUE!

    I have seen Segways in the park, but only used by security teams during uncrowned days. These are professionals with training. Not some random people who want to try the latest trend.

    Whats your driving force? Why are so passionate about using a Segway in the over crowded streets of Disneyland? Even IF your well trained in its use, allowing YOU to use a Segway means Disney would be force too allow EVERY FRICKEN YAHOO OUT THERE!!!! My feet cant take that. I have enough strollers running over my feet as it is.

    Even in an empty park, a recent poster who took the Segway tour was able to launch himself 6 feet from a Segway that was nutered and slowed down. Think of that happening on Mainstreet on a Saturday.
    Last edited by gibbage; 07-22-2007 at 08:24 PM.

  14. #59

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    I thought some of these links might shed some light on the subject:

    http://segwayman.blogspot.com/

    Blog addressing the travels/experiences of myself, having Multiple Sclerosis, and the use of the Segway in addressing my otherwise limited mobility.

    http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/news/J...SonSegway.html

    "she was required to undergo a two-hour training session. Among the things she learned: it can go 10-15 miles on one charge; it has three different keys, a black key that allows a maximum speed of 6 mph, a yellow one that allows 10 mph and a red one that takes it up to 12 mph; the machine, which uses computer microprocessors, is so sensitive that it responds to its rider's tiniest movements, correcting for balance 100 times per second. "

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4217573 or http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/0....nosegways.ap/

    "They want you to sit in a wheelchair and feel even more handicapped," Jenkins said. "Most people I know aren't ready to sit down. It's an insult."

    http://www.rv.net/forums/index.cfm/f...074/page/2.cfm

    You mentioned dealing with fatigue. A few years ago I bought a Segway and it has made a huge difference in my life.

    and guess what Universal Studios allows the use of Segways in their parks and have had no problems!

    http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=15460

    Even tho this situation affects me negatively I have to smile at what I am observing lol this is just like when any new technology came on the scene

    Cars, you cant go over 50 mph or you will die lol
    Planes, you cant go higher than 30,000 ft or faster than sound it will kill you lol
    Man will never go to the moon.....

    etc etc etc

    some day in the near future when EVERYONE is scooting safely around on some kind of robotic mobility device that we cant even imagine yet yes even at Disneyland they will look back on how silly people where

    lol :-)

  15. #60

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    Re: Disney offers Expensive Segway tours of park but Denies Disabled Segway users!

    Quote Originally Posted by Armadillo4 View Post
    A very interesting topic. It even compelled me to google "segway for disabled" and read up on the subject. I did find several articles and message board posts that provide many examples of how a segway has improved the quality of life for those with certain disabilities--most commonly cited were MS, polio and arthritis. I don't doubt that this is a device that can help people with disabilities.

    That doesn't mean Disney should allow them in the parks. Disney provides alternative means of transportation for those with disabilities. The Segway has not been approved by the FDA as a medical device. And the Segway company itself does not market it as such. The iBOT wheelchair--which was also invented by Dean Kamen of Segway--is marketed and sold as a medical device because it specifically has FDA approval.

    However, I do want to be more forward-thinking about this topic and realize that new and emerging technologies should be evaluated for disabled use. To that point, picking on Disney is not the battle to fight. It's a drop in the bucket. For comparison, I believe there is still a ban on Segways in public places in San Francisco and in public places in the entire country of Britain. Advocates of Segway use for the disabled should be lobbying for FDA approval and for recognition from other government agencies (e.g. Dept. of Transportation) as a medical device. Once the Segway is officially recognized as a medical device, then I would have no objection to seeing disabled guests riding them in the parks.
    Glad you brought up the Ibot yes its a cool invention BUT

    I think it costs over $10,000!

    Its huge and heavy and would definately leave a mark!

    And in it you look like your severaly disabled!

    Just my personal take on that one

    oh btw I can hear the Disneyland Fireworks going off outside my window as I right this at home lol

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