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  1. #1

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    Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Link for The Thread: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?
    Link for Index to The Thread: Index for "Long-Forgotten" HM Thread


    Obviously, Mansion fans will never stop talking about their favorite ride, so we might as well start another thread, taking up where the last one left off. The Thread has picked up another 3000 hits just since it's closed. And the "Index" thread is too poorly-named to do the job, IMO. I'm not going to steer this one so personally or so diligently, so it may be less intense, but I'll try to stop by and see whazzup now and then.

    The latest buzz about the DL HM is over the apparent removal of the "DEAD END" sign, along with that bit of wall. Karnever says it's permanent, and that it has to do with making a wider space for evacuations (Index for "Long-Forgotten" HM Thread). It strikes me that there are no really good pix of this sign on the Net, so if it's gone to Yesterland, y'all might want a nice shot to remember it by.

    Last edited by HBG2; 07-27-2007 at 08:21 PM. Reason: adding links for us lazy folks

  2. #2

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    I was secretly hoping for "Revenge of the Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect", or "I Was a Teenage Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect", but the "Son" thing, I suppose, is more appropriate. Congrats on such a successful thread, and Bon Voyage to this one!! Consider yourself christened!

  3. #3

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    I don't think I ever posted in the old thread, in spite of being a huge HM fan.

    Won't make that mistake again.
    You don't need me or my ham, cheese, cheese, cheese, tomato, cheese, ham and tomato sandwiches. And cheese.




  4. #4

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    We all know now that Marc Davis drew artistic inspiration from …mile Grillot de Givry's Illustrated Anthology of Sorcery, Magic, and Alchemy. The "Witch of Walpurgis" concept painting is loaded with stuff taken from this book (see: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?).

    So I thought I'd thumb through it again to see if there were any more goodies that inspired Mr. Davis. And the book did not disappoint.

    One of Davis's Sťance Room concept pieces has weird animals and musical instruments floating around:



    Among other things, there's a cat with bat wings, and a couple of fishy-squiddy critters. Compare this old picture, from page 45 of De Givry:



    That's a close-up of this painting depicting the demonic apparitions that tempted St. Anthony in the desert, a very popular subject of countless works of art.




    Animals and instruments. The problem is, a sťance is not quite the same thing as a demonic assault on an ascetic saint in the desert. At real 19th c. sťances, you mostly got levitated furniture and musical instruments. Cats and fish didn't fly around much, let alone cats with bat wings. Good reason for that, too: imagine doing this in the dark with a cat:




    From the looks of the finished Sťance Room at DL, the gang went for the look of a genuine fake sťance, not a fake fake sťance. Besides, a table is easier to swing around on a wire than an audio-animatronic squid.

    Davis exchanged most of the critters for furniture in another concept painting.


    The finished product stuck exclusively with floating instruments and furniture. St. Anthony's demons never got in.
    Last edited by HBG2; 07-27-2007 at 08:46 PM.

  5. #5

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Nice to see this thread.

    Do you think that if the St. Anthony's demons got in they would have been removed about the same time Pirates became PC cause it was "offensive"...

    if they got the reference.

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexLoup View Post
    Nice to see this thread.

    Do you think that if the St. Anthony's demons got in they would have been removed about the same time Pirates became PC cause it was "offensive"...

    if they got the reference.
    Stuff that was in since 1969 would probably create little controversy today, because it's so familiar that no one would take offence. For example, I doubt if the hanging man would be green-lighted in a new attraction. There'd be complaints that they were making a joke out of suicide, and you couldn't get away with that now. But no one raises a fuss about the Ghost Host's "there's always my way," since it's been there all this time.

    But you might be on to something. To Marc Davis's generation, demons and witchcraft were no more real than Frankenstein or the tooth fairy. Probably none of those guys foresaw a time when large numbers of people would take the occult so seriously that they would register a strong protest about things that were little more than Halloween decorations in the eyes of the old-time Imagineers. Still, I suppose it's possible that the team toned down some of the occultic imagery found in some of the concept art because it was "too dark."

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Well, then too, wasn't there a time before the final 'tone' of the mansion was settled? I seem to recall that for a time, the Imagineers weren't sure whether to make the attraction wacky and a bit spooky, or genuinely creepy. I wouldn't think that ideas like this were dropped just because they were too dark in and of themselves, but more because the mansion as a whole ended up going the other direction.
    You don't need me or my ham, cheese, cheese, cheese, tomato, cheese, ham and tomato sandwiches. And cheese.




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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseRemainSeated View Post
    Well, then too, wasn't there a time before the final 'tone' of the mansion was settled? I seem to recall that for a time, the Imagineers weren't sure whether to make the attraction wacky and a bit spooky, or genuinely creepy. I wouldn't think that ideas like this were dropped just because they were too dark in and of themselves, but more because the mansion as a whole ended up going the other direction.
    You could be right, but it could also be a case of obscure vs. obvious rather than spooky vs. silly. We have, once again, the case of the Witch of Walpurgis to illustrate this:



    The difference between the concept art (left) and final version (right) is not spooky vs. silly. The concept art is full of arcane occult stuff that riders wouldn't recognize, while the final version is simpler. (So I argued here: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect? : I tell ya, this index is lovely).

    In the case of the Sťance Room, people can see at a glance that there are musical instruments and furniture floating around, and none of those items is particularly weird in itself. Furthermore, these phenomena are in keeping with common notions of what's supposed to happen at a sťance. But if there were batwinged cats and squiddly creatures floating around, people would be fixated on them, and also puzzled ("what the heck IS that thing?"), and so they would be distracted from the main focus (Mdm L). Bad showmanship.
    Last edited by HBG2; 07-27-2007 at 08:51 PM.

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Also true - it would be both confusing and distracting. Especially since...

    Okay, I must be honest. Maybe it's just me. But every time I look at that cat with bat wings...

    I see this.

    You don't need me or my ham, cheese, cheese, cheese, tomato, cheese, ham and tomato sandwiches. And cheese.




  10. #10

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseRemainSeated View Post
    Also true - it would be both confusing and distracting. Especially since...

    Okay, I must be honest. Maybe it's just me. But every time I look at that cat with bat wings...

    I see this.

    Ah!

    A new original piece!

    The thread lives on!

    Chad

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    The latest buzz about the DL HM is over the apparent removal of the "DEAD END" sign, along with that bit of wall. Karnever says it's permanent, and that it has to do with making a wider space for evacuations (Index for "Long-Forgotten" HM Thread). It strikes me that there are no really good pix of this sign on the Net, so if it's gone to Yesterland, y'all might want a nice shot to remember it by.

    Is this going to be relocated? I can think of several places they could put it in the unloading area or as you exit. The nerve of them, removing pieces of my ride while my AP's bloacked out.




  12. #12

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    I hope the Dead End sign comes back. It is an iconic piece of the ride.

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseRemainSeated View Post
    Okay, I must be honest. Maybe it's just me. But every time I look at that cat with bat wings...

    I see this.

    Na na na nanana Bat Cat!

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHost2 View Post
    I hope the Dead End sign comes back. It is an iconic piece of the ride.
    I always loved the Dead End sign.
    Sig by Poisonedapples!

  14. #14

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Wow - completely forgot about that Dead End sign...it doesn't effect my experience and anyone who said it did is just plain silly. So, i am indifferent if it is gone or it is there.

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    Re: Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    Question about intellectual property...
    I noticed a recent blog from GRD that measurements of a tombstone were obscured to offset any complaint by Disney. These blueprints can be commonly found, so why the caution? Also, I came across a website selling replicas of practically everything in the Mansion, castings of plaques, stanchions, following busts, wallpaper, full size animatronics of the HHGs and the Caretaker, etc. and all at SUPER expensive prices. Wouldn't such a thing be a violation of Disney's intellectual property? I presume that "potential violation of Disney's intellectual property" would also be the reason no one has made a Demon Eyes wallpaper commercially available.

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