Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 55
  1. #1

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    This is a spinoff. I did a lot of research prior to posting it and felt it had outgrown the previous thread. I know the theme of Paradise Pier is supposed to be a turn of the century Victorian Boardwalk. It only takes a moment to realize how poorly conceived, designed, and themed it is. Several individuals have pointed out that Walt specifically designed and built Disneyland in response to dirty, unsafe carni's like the Pike. It's a bit of a toss up, the Pike was very old and arguably unsafe. At the same time it was also considered the West Coast Coney Island, and boasted the fasted double racing roller coaster... the Cyclone Racer! Disneyland has California Screamin'... somehow I feel cheated out of what could have been an extremely impressive woody.

    When Disneyland opened the Pike was already sliding downhill, the majority of it would fall to ruin the coming decade. Places closed, collapsed, burned, the pier was washed away (Rainbow Pier) and some buildings were about to completely disintegrate due to lack of upkeep. It didn't last much longer. The sad thing is that even though it has been gone for a while, the Pike left lasting fun memory of what a Boardwalk really was. IF Disney insists on having some sort of a boardwalk theme... they have a long way to go!

    As a kid I remember the Carousel at Shoreline Village. I loved that thing, and always wished I would have been alive for the old Pike. What I never realized until last night was that my beloved horses were carved by the same man who built part of the Pike, and out of 40 Carousels he built... only 11 remain. That Carousel now sits in San Francisco, and it puts Posiden's, and even King A's one to shame. As I said before Disney has a long way to go.

    I haven't been there in years but I used to eat at the Ruby's on HB Pier. The one thing I always loved was the old bumper car that they had on display. I do not know if it was from the Pike or not... but while looking into everything I noticed... Paradise Pier doesn't even have bumper cars! What kind of a boardwalk doesn't have bumper cars? It's almost as bad as not having a hot dog stand.... oh forgot that's not their either!

    On a more positive note I will say this. I like that someone built the Sun Wheel and the Swings! I don't like the way in which the Sun Wheel was themed and constructed but I like that it is there. THAT screams BOARDWALK!!! As to the swings... please ditch the stupid peel! I am not endorsing Carni rides, or poorly themed Disney rides based on Carni rides. I now join others in a call for well themed Disney rides, with the Boardwalk flavor that Paradise Pier lacks. It will be interesting to see if they can do it without Pixar'ing the place to ruins, and I'm not entirely sure they can make anything that wouldn't resemble the Carnie's... most of the modern rides are based on them anyways!

    Pike History as well as Mr. Looff (guy who built the Carousels) and other cool things.
    http://www.millikanalumni.com/Pike/Pike.html

    Cyclone Racer
    http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com.../traver4.shtml

    History of Pike as well as decent pictures
    http://www.beachcalifornia.com/pikestsm.html
    If you read the bottom you can see exactly why Disneyland was built!

    Looff Carousel that was at Shoreline
    http://www.nca-usa.org/psp/YerbaBuena/

    My point is this, we were given a cheap imitation and a glimpse into what we once had. California was known for it's beaches and it's boardwalks... and sadly both are poorly represented. I don't exactly understand why they went with the Boardwalk theme, but if they are going to do it they could at least have done it right.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  2. #2

    •   
    • Blind to His Own Faults
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Near
    Posts
    8,059

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    ... somehow I feel cheated out of what could have been an extremely impressive woody.
    On an unrelated note, the quote above seriously may have to become my new sig.
    "...they could have at least done it right" seems to be the watchword for DCA, as well as its critic's 'battle cry'. Certainly we were treated to many sub-par attactions, and Paradise Pier, unfortunately, has the greatest concentration of them. I do like Screamin', however, for the thrill factor alone, and the dual-line evokes remembrances of coasters-past. I, too, would have loved to have seen a wooden coaster go in, but 'modern' wooden coasters (at least examples I see here in Northern CA) have a very large footprint, needing extensive truss-work and buttressing to structurally insure a 'safe' coaster ride, that is contemporary with the sophisticated level of excitement Guests expect from a coaster nowadays, as opposed to the early 1900's. Great Links, Skip!!

  3. #3

    • no flash photography...
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    In my own little world..
    Posts
    13,287

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    did you ever got to the pike?

    My parents went their as teenagers. The first time we went to DL my parents were walking around the roller coaster in DCA and they both said it reminded them of the pike. They both were smiling and talking about their memories of going there as teens. I guess it hit it's mark for some.

  4. #4

    • Proud "Dis-nerd"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    208

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    I grew up in Santa Cruz, so of course I think that Boardwalk outshines Paradise Pier big time. Also is the fact that the SC Boardwalk is authentic. Disney should go back to these places and get more inspiration, they've got a bit of the magic from those old boardwalks, but it needs something more. I wouldn't mind getting some deep fried artichoke hearts at Paradise Pier either!

    Saying that, in my opinion California Screamin' is an excellent roller coaster, in its own right.

    If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/blendywee

  5. #5

    • For You!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Idaho Falls
    Posts
    7,704

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    I never thought of an old fashioned diner at Paradise Pier - that would be great! burgers and milkshakes....

    I love screamin - the fact that it's not a wooden coaster makes it all the better!

    I am a die hard DCA fan - I really love Paradise Pier, love the music, the atmosphere. I am happy that the carnie games are disappearing (just too expensive, and I've never been a fan). But, my family loves the place.

    Will trade husband for Disneyland and DCA Pins!

  6. #6

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    On an unrelated note, the quote above seriously may have to become my new sig.
    "...they could have at least done it right" seems to be the watchword for DCA, as well as its critic's 'battle cry'. Certainly we were treated to many sub-par attactions, and Paradise Pier, unfortunately, has the greatest concentration of them. I do like Screamin', however, for the thrill factor alone, and the dual-line evokes remembrances of coasters-past. I, too, would have loved to have seen a wooden coaster go in, but 'modern' wooden coasters (at least examples I see here in Northern CA) have a very large footprint, needing extensive truss-work and buttressing to structurally insure a 'safe' coaster ride, that is contemporary with the sophisticated level of excitement Guests expect from a coaster nowadays, as opposed to the early 1900's. Great Links, Skip!!
    Your Welcome... my point to posting about Cyclone Racer was that it wasn't A rollercoaster... it was DUAL rollercoasters. THAT would have been better then a cheesy loop, speaking of which if it is supposed to be a woody then why does it have a loop? That completely breaks any sense of theme! If they wanted to do a hidden mickey it would have been nicer to do the concentric rings and to view it you would have to be on the lift!

    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAbe View Post
    did you ever got to the pike?

    My parents went their as teenagers. The first time we went to DL my parents were walking around the roller coaster in DCA and they both said it reminded them of the pike. They both were smiling and talking about their memories of going there as teens. I guess it hit it's mark for some.
    As stated above I never had the chance, closed before I was born! I have the pictures and the stories from my family and extended family! All of them commented that Paradise REMINDED them of the Pike... until they walked around then all of them were cheated and pissed! My Great Grandma actually owned several eateries at the Pike (Mom told me last week... another family gem I never knew about!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BFJen View Post
    I never thought of an old fashioned diner at Paradise Pier - that would be great! burgers and milkshakes....

    I love screamin - the fact that it's not a wooden coaster makes it all the better!

    I am a die hard DCA fan - I really love Paradise Pier, love the music, the atmosphere. I am happy that the carnie games are disappearing (just too expensive, and I've never been a fan). But, my family loves the place.
    Great Grandma owned a Diner among other things... don't mind Screamin just wish it was A LOT better. It is impossible to build a decent rollercoaster in CA without a comparison to SFMM or now Knott's... both of which whipped DCA badly! Carnie games are fun, but I think we took a page from the Knott's playbook with that one and just made them even more expenisve. Classic Carnie games would be nice to see instead of what's there now. Balboa Peninsula and it's boardwalk would be a nice inspiration, I believe that one is closed now too!
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  7. #7

    • Disgruntled Former CM
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Whittier / Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,266

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I know the theme of Paradise Pier is supposed to be a turn of the century Victorian Boardwalk. It only takes a moment to realize how poorly conceived, designed, and themed it is. Several individuals have pointed out that Walt specifically designed and built Disneyland in response to dirty, unsafe carni's like the Pike. It's a bit of a toss up, the Pike was very old and arguably unsafe. At the same time it was also considered the West Coast Coney Island, and boasted the fasted double racing roller coaster... the Cyclone Racer! Disneyland has California Screamin'...

    ...somehow I feel cheated out of what could have been an extremely impressive woody.

    My point is this, we were given a cheap imitation and a glimpse into what we once had. California was known for it's beaches and it's boardwalks... and sadly both are poorly represented. I don't exactly understand why they went with the Boardwalk theme, but if they are going to do it they could at least have done it right.
    Excellent Post.

    Yes, had Paradise Pier been properly Imagineered, highly themed to the Victorian Boardwalk era (doing for the Pike and the various Californian Boardwalks what Main Street was to Marceline), given us Disney Quality Attractions - and all of us an 'impressive woody' - I think that we would have all been applauding, instead of jeering...

    It's going to take a large amount of the $1billion to rip out the Maliboomer, Orange Stinger, Jumping Jellyfish (or move it over to the King Triton carousel for the kiddies), the Zephyr, Mulhulland Madness - and start over...

  8. #8

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    431

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    One of the main things that Paradise Pier is lacking is a beach. I think if they could imagineer some convincing version of an ocean beach, Paradise Pier could be redeemed.

  9. #9

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    Quote Originally Posted by nemopoppins View Post
    One of the main things that Paradise Pier is lacking is a beach. I think if they could imagineer some convincing version of an ocean beach, Paradise Pier could be redeemed.
    ANY combination of surf and sand would be welcome but I don't think they have the real estate to make it convincing! Another problem I didn't quite understand was making a "woody" go through the ocean!

    My Mom showed me an old picture the other day. It was her as a baby, on the shoulder of my Grandpa (now deceased) when he was in his Navy uniform. She was born in 43, and it was taken within weeks of that. It was done down at the Pike. It has a tin frame, not sure if that came from the machine as well or if that was Grandpa's handiwork. He said that photo got him through the War (Mom was the oldest of 5!).

    At County Fairs and countless arcades I have taken photo after photo with my wife and kids. It's become an odd tradition of sorts! We didn't make the fair this year, but last year we did a photo! The owner usually limits how many can go in a booth but he couldn't resist watching 2 adults (I'm 6'4 wife is 5'2) , 2 toddlers ( oldest almost 4, middle 2.5) and a baby (almost 1) try to cram into ONE booth! Wife is due with #4 shortly, and we plan on continuing this tradition as long as we can.

    I mention all this because it's the smallest detail that can make all the difference. To my knowledge Paradise Pier doesn't have the classic photo booths, B&W and Color ones, that dotted almost every Boardwalk!

    As to what should stay/go here's my thoughts. We're stuck with Screamin' since it would cost too much to rip it out, can't do anything about it but I would love to get a better paint job and rip out that wave thingy. It just doesn't look right when you look at it from the ground. Mulholland is actually based on the old mouse style rollercoaster, needs a better theme. Obviously ditch the orange peel, toss the tower possibly in favor of a parachute ride (not sure might be too Knott's ish) and the flying silver cigars... don't care about the jellies since the kids like them... Evil said move'm I'm game if there is room elsewhere. What I crave are Bumper cars. IF they ever had the room my other choice would be something like the old Soapbox racers! Honestly though I am not sure how far the $1 billion will stretch, and if the plan is tear down/ build up or just paint over what is already badly themed!
    Last edited by techskip; 08-05-2007 at 07:10 PM.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  10. #10

    • Circle of Ancients
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Debate Lounge Dummy : )
    Posts
    11,113

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    I have lived in the Santa Cruz area and Paradise Pier is not much like the Boardwalk at all to me. But I love Screamin and I love the Sunwheel. I can't stand the swings and there is nothing like them at the Boardwalk. In all honesty though, the unauthenticity of that area of DCA bothers me less than the fake Redwood trees in other areas of DCA.
    But I am one of the people who likes DCA overall for a number of reasons.

  11. #11

    • Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,554

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    Quote Originally Posted by nemopoppins View Post
    One of the main things that Paradise Pier is lacking is a beach. I think if they could imagineer some convincing version of an ocean beach, Paradise Pier could be redeemed.
    I seem to recall hearing something last year about a DCA concept that had a beach across from the Paradise Pier. Haven’t heard anything further and the latest concepts appear to be putting some sort of fountain show in the lagoon ala Vegas’ Bellagio. I really think it would be cool to have a beach and that certainly evokes California culture.

    To me, the Santa Cruz Boardwalk epitomizes the concept of boardwalk that Disney should have aimed for.

  12. #12

    • Progressive Disneylander
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    1,240

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Several individuals have pointed out that Walt specifically designed and built Disneyland in response to dirty, unsafe carni's like the Pike. It's a bit of a toss up, the Pike was very old and arguably unsafe. At the same time it was also considered the West Coast Coney Island, and boasted the fasted double racing roller coaster... the Cyclone Racer! Disneyland has California Screamin'... somehow I feel cheated out of what could have been an extremely impressive woody.

    My point is this, we were given a cheap imitation and a glimpse into what we once had. California was known for it's beaches and it's boardwalks... and sadly both are poorly represented. I don't exactly understand why they went with the Boardwalk theme, but if they are going to do it they could at least have done it right.
    I live within driving distance of some of the country's most visitied boardwalks and no, Paradise Pier is nothing like a real boardwalk. However, it doesn't bother me at all that it isn't.

    This is Disney's version of a boardwalk -- not an exact replica of anything. They couldn't possibly simulate an entire boardwalk experience in such a small space anyhow. Personally, I give Disney credit for making the most beautiful area of the park with so little space allotment.

    IMO, a wooden rollercoaster would have been a terrible idea in Paradise Pier. Disney chose the best option. At a glance, Screamin' nice looks like a woody, but has the steel coaster benefits of being smooth and fluid (and having a loop) unlike a woody. Wooden rollercoasters are too herky-jerky and Disney made the right call in allowing people to go and get their bumps and bruises at inferior parks who have these things. Furthermore, if Screamin' had been a woody, there wouldn't be been any room to put Toy Story Mania due to all of the extra materials it takes to keep those things standing upright.

    The only major flaw I see in Paradise Pier is the lack of real boardwalk food. Operationally, it would be difficult to do it because it requires custom varieties of some of the same foods they are already serving like pizza, burgers, fries and popcorn. All this adds up to a lot of extra cost. Still, food -- and the variety of permiating yummy smells that goes with it -- has so much to do with the boardwalk experience and Paradise Pier does lack that.

    In an idead situation, I would have nixed McDonalds, Pizza Oom Mow Mow and S.S. Rustworthy and put in another boardwalk-style attraction in their place while replacing the current pier games with collection of counter service food stations each offering a different boardwalk-style selection. Problem solved.

  13. #13

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18,922

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by techskip
    ... somehow I feel cheated out of what could have been an extremely impressive woody.


    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    On an unrelated note, the quote above seriously may have to become my new sig.
    !!
    Hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  14. #14

    • Once A Skip Always A Skip
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Tropic Rivers of Adventure
    Posts
    622

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Carnie games are fun, but I think we took a page from the Knott's playbook with that one and just made them even more expenisve
    My faovrite Disneyland story is when Walt was trying to get financial backing from people who didn't quite understand what Disneyland was all about yet. When Walt was explaining his theme park someone told him that no one was going to drive all the way to Anaheim to throw balls at targets for prizes.

    When I think of the massive redux coming toward Paradise Pier...I guess that man was right after all.
    -"Enjoy the rest of your stay here at Disneyland, where all of your dreams come true...well except for two of them, short lines and cheap food."

  15. #15

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,370

    Re: Paradise Pier,Pike, Santa Cruz, Santa Monica, and other Boardwalks.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanSkippa View Post
    My faovrite Disneyland story is when Walt was trying to get financial backing from people who didn't quite understand what Disneyland was all about yet. When Walt was explaining his theme park someone told him that no one was going to drive all the way to Anaheim to throw balls at targets for prizes.

    When I think of the massive redux coming toward Paradise Pier...I guess that man was right after all.
    Forget driving to Anaheim... people IN Anaheim don't want to play the games! As I said if you have the classics and aren't charging a fortune people would be more inclined to play them. I also found more pictures etc that I will post when I get home tonight!
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Bioshock 2 event 08/08 Santa Monica
    By justjohn in forum Disney Interactive and Game Industry Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-12-2009, 06:28 AM
  2. [Question] How nice is the Santa Monica Pier?
    By Yackerz in forum So. Cal. Travel Planning
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-12-2009, 04:44 PM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-26-2008, 02:46 PM
  4. Santa Monica: Paradise?
    By Ward in forum So. Cal. Travel Planning
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-24-2008, 01:02 PM
  5. Santa Monica Pier Visit
    By clara in forum MiceChat Main Lounge
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 03-11-2007, 07:47 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •