Why the Pirate Ship was so important

[merlinjones]

In the original Disneyland layouts, one item that was always present and prominent in the designs was Captain Hook's Pirate Ship. In fact, except for Sleeping Beauty Castle, it was the most central icon built in the park, immediately viewable upon entering the castle courtyard. From aerial views it appears near dead center.

I don't think that was an accident. It's heavly symbolic to the core theme of Disneyland. As soon as you entered Fantasyland, it was there to greet you. Just as if you were Mr. Darling in "Peter Pan," getting in touch with his spirit of youth. This is one of Walt Disney's favorite themes and reflects on his own upbringing as well.

George's glimpse of the Pirate Ship at the end of "Peter Pan" resulted in one of the most resonant lines in a Disney film: "You know, I have the strangest feeling I've seen that ship before. A long time ago, when I was very young."

The ship served that symbolic, subconscious function and I believe that is one reason it is so missed by those of a certain age. Visually, it was almost as important as the castle from a thematic plan standpoint, and should never have been moved from the central point.

For that reason alone, and tuna jokes aside, it should be rebuilt.

[fo'c's'le swab]

In complete agreement here with Merlin. If this pirate craze has a chance of spawning anything worthwhile, it is this: the opportunity to correct this past mistake. Since TSI is ruined in any case, Skull Rock and the ship should be re-established there (or replacing the inane PFF) and the smell of tuna will triumphantly return to the park...wait, that didn't come out right...we should bring back the ship just for the 'tuna' jokes alone.

[Opus1guy]

I'm curious...did the Pirate Ship have any signage or any other relationship to Peter Pan when it first opened?

I ask this because having been around in those early days...I don't recall it being (other than perhaps in architectural design) related to Peter Pan in signage or marketing. It was always just the "Chicken of the Sea Pirate Ship Restaurant" Even the ship's masthead was the Chicken of the Sea mermaid from their logo.

Or was the ship designed as a Peter Pan thing and then when they signed Chicken of the Sea as its sponsor...they did away with Peter Pan for the time being?

I know that they often posed Peter Pan characters onboard for postcard shots and such. And once Chicken of the Sea left the Park...it became "Captain Hook's Pirate Ship Restaurant." But that was later. So I was wondering if Walt sort of "sold out" the Peter Pan reference in favor of a lucrative sponsorship.

I don't have access to any old guidebooks with me here in Hawaii (vacationing!) to see what it was listed as in the early days.

[DisneyIPresume]

I don't have access to any old guidebooks with me here in Hawaii (vacationing!) to see what it was listed as in the early days.

What kind of a Disney fan are you? Vacationing in Hawaii instead of at the DLR!

[lazyboy97O]

What kind of a Disney fan are you? Vacationing in Hawaii instead of at the DLR!

Any place with Dole Whip is an aprroved Disney geek destination.

Does anybody have any really good images of the old Fantasyland? I've been to Yesterland. But I can never find anythign that gives me a really good sense of the place.

[merlinjones]

>>I'm curious...did the Pirate Ship have any signage or any other relationship to Peter Pan when it first opened? I ask this because having been around in those early days...I don't recall it being (other than perhaps in architectural design) related to Peter Pan in signage or marketing. It was always just the "Chicken of the Sea Pirate Ship Restaurant" Even the ship's masthead was the Chicken of the Sea mermaid from their logo<<

Well, the galleon was clearly modelled after the one in the film and Bobby Driscoll (Peter Pan) is seen aboard the ship in the opening day special. Then Skull Rock was added in 1960. Just before it closed, the ship's name was changed to Captain Hook's Galley.

[pratt55]

Here is a link to the pictures I posted previously of the Pirate Ship, not sure if Peter Pan was involved or not.

Fantasyland Pirate Ship Pictures

[TheManator]

What a shock, swab siding with mj..

anyways, opinion aside I believe bringing it back with more obvious references would be better than a chicken of the sea Peter Panless ship.

Especially with the DVD re-release doing real good and even kids of this generation still know who Peter Pan is and how important he was - may it be the Disney spin on the story, Hook's craptacular story, or even Johnny Depp's recent Finding Neverland, I think it would be a great additon to the park, and it would fit PERFECTLY on or nearby Pirate's Lair.

[Opus1guy]

Well, the galleon was clearly modelled after the one in the film and Bobby Driscoll (Peter Pan) is seen aboard the ship in the opening day special. Then Skull Rock was added in 1960. Just before it closed, the ship's name was changed to Captain Hook's Galley.

From one of my 35mm Kodachromes I took for documentation just days before the old Fantasyland closed:





But my original question/observation still stands...it seems when the Pirate Ship first opened...most Peter Pan reference was removed (or never installed) in favor of just Chicken of the Sea.

Chicken of the Sea Pirate Ship with logo mermaid masthead:



Close up of logo mermaid masthead:



Chicken of the Sea logo:



And after Chicken of the Sea left and ship converted to Hook's (note logo masthead removed):



BTW...the beautiful relief work in gold with mermaid and tunas on the back of the ship shown in the first photo above...is also actually a remnant of the Chicken of the Sea logo. Guess they just didn't feel the need to remove it...or deliberately left it as an homage to Chicken of the Sea.



As I mention in my original post...I think there's no question the ship was originally designed as Captain Hook's ship. It's placement within the mostly film fantasy land of Fantasyland would pretty much bear that out alone. I'm just mentioning or questioning how by the time it opened...how Chicken of the Sea's sponsorship seemed to have removed all or most references to Peter Pan.

Back in the 50's...I don't think we ever even referred to the ship as "Captain Hook's" or "Peter Pan". It was always just "Let's go to Chicken of the Sea" or "Let's go climb on the Pirate Ship."

I guess I'm just suggesting that if Walt intended a Captain Hook pirate ship to be a centerpiece of his Park...he wasn't so locked into the notion to prevent him from temporarily displacing 'ol Hook from his ship in favor of a nice sponsorship check. At least when Skull Rock was added...it sort of firmed up the association with Disney's film, no matter what the "Tuna Boat" sponsorship might have been.

[merlinjones]

Maybe Chicken of the Sea would pay to rebuild it. Seems to have been a very positive association for them.

[3rdshiftCM]

A question,

If the park were to rebuild the ship, where would it go?

It can't go back where it was unless you move Dumbo and beside if the ship was brought back as a restaurant there would be two in FL and that won't happen, real estate is to precious in that part of the park.

So as fun as it would be where would it go?

[merlinjones]

>>If the park were to rebuild the ship, where would it go? It can't go back where it was unless you move Dumbo and beside if the ship was brought back as a restaurant there would be two in FL and that won't happen, real estate in to precious in that part of the park.<<

Well, Dumbo could be moved to the Skyway hill, giving it a better view...

- - otherwise, Tony Baxter had intended to move the pirate ship over to small world way (next to StorybookLand) before it fell apart. So that plan could go through.

Now we have the Motor Boat queue and platform space empty on the other side of small world way too. You could even fit the Pirate Ship AND the Nautilus over there...

Then there is always Pirate Island...

[nish221]

In the original Disneyland layouts, one item that was always present and prominent in the designs was Captain Hook's Pirate Ship. In fact, except for Sleeping Beauty Castle, it was the most central icon built in the park, immediately viewable upon entering the castle courtyard. From aerial views it appears near dead center.

I don't think that was an accident. It's heavly symbolic to the core theme of Disneyland. As soon as you entered Fantasyland, it was there to greet you. Just as if you were Mr. Darling in "Peter Pan," getting in touch with his spirit of youth. This is one of Walt Disney's favorite themes and reflects on his own upbringing as well.

George's glimpse of the Pirate Ship at the end of "Peter Pan" resulted in one of the most resonant lines in a Disney film: "You know, I have the strangest feeling I've seen that ship before. A long time ago, when I was very young."

The ship served that symbolic, subconscious function and I believe that is one reason it is so missed by those of a certain age. Visually, it was almost as important as the castle from a thematic plan standpoint, and should never have been moved from the central point.

For that reason alone, and tuna jokes aside, it should be rebuilt.

A couple of points...
No. It was definitely not an accident. Just like the placement of Peter Pan
at the right hand side after entering through the castle.

Now, the carrousel (sp?) actually is visible from even the gate and provides that
"return to when you are young" function even stronger than the pirate ship did.

Finally, it really would be TOO MUCH PIRATES irregardless of the source
story IMHO.

Anyway, my two cents...

[3rdshiftCM]

Well, Dumbo could be moved to the Skyway hill, giving it a better view...

- - otherwise, Tony Baxter had intended to move the pirate ship over to small world way (next to StorybookLand) before it fell apart. So that plan could go through.

Now we have the Motor Boat queue and platform space empty on the other side of small world way too. You could even fit the Pirate Ship AND the Nautilus over there...

Then there is always Pirate Island...

The Skyway area has too much potential for just Dumbo.

The area aroud SW and SBL has changed a lot since the FL redo, thanks to the Light Magic plaza.

So I guess the MBC area would be ok but, then you'll have the ship sitting infront of the Matterhorn and under the Monorail.

Anyway, would you want the ship back as just a static display, a restaurant or as an interactive area?

[fo'c's'le swab]

What a shock, swab siding with mj..

Heh...for those keeping score at home, we don't always agree...I offer evidence:
http://www.micechat.com/forums/showt...t=74602&page=3