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  1. #151

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Cheer up, little camper. No one is taking away your Splash Mountain, but sooner or later you will be forced into accepting not all share the same opinions as yourself. You are just as unwilling to 'budge an inch' and consider WRE for even an instant.
    False. I never said that. I was in disagreement about removing Splash Mountain. I don't disagree about adding WRE somewhere. I even recommended alternatives (that you dismissed because of your other plans).

    Not once, in your posts have you even mentioned the TOPIC of this entire thread:Western River Expedition. All you have done thusfar, is argue about how wonderful SM is, and wasted my time.
    Wait. Isn't that what the thread was about? I don't know. I was just going by the thread title and the thread's first post.

    Sorry for the confusion and wasting your time. I guess I shouldn't comprehend what I read. My bad.

  2. #152

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Another good reason for Splash to stay: the music. I find myself humming it all even when I'm NOT at Disneyland. Music is a reason why I think a Jungle Book ride in Animal Kingdom would be most welcome indeed.


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  3. #153

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Why would you tear down one of the parks most popular attractions? Makes no sense to me. I can understand the rest of Critter Country, except Pooh is also popular more so than CBJ ever was, but I could see them doing something new and exciting in the part of the park, so I agree on that, but Splash, like I said, huge huge huge big, like woah, it's REALLY big. Sorry, couldn't help it.

  4. #154

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Quote Originally Posted by idreamofjeani View Post
    Absolutely 100% not!

    Splash Mountain is a very fine attraction. You need to ride it again with open eyes and look at how beautiful it is. Animatronics, music, everything. And the drops are fun too. Why would you even think this? Worse business idea ever. Sorry.

    Like everyone else said, get rid of the actual underutilized crappy areas of [former/marginal] Frontierland, including the Festival arena.

    As a CM I can tell you that for some reason (I don't fully understand) Splash Mountain gets VERY LITTLE love from MiceChatters, but a LOT of love from less frequent visitors. Your opinions about Splash Mountain are completely skewed.

    Splash Mountain rules, and 95% of non-AP guests believe so.
    Quote Originally Posted by idreamofjeani View Post
    How can you possibly call Splash Mountain "vanilla"???? Compared to what? The only other ride that is on its level in terms of overall "fullness" as a ride is Indy. I really don't understand your reasoning at all. For some reason you just don't like it but I really can't see how you could call it vanilla with even a slice of objectivity. Like it or not, it's far from ordinary or plain.
    Quote Originally Posted by idreamofjeani View Post
    Ah hah! There it is. Your view *is* skewed because you remember the characters from America Sings, and that bothers you.

    Guess what? Hardly anyone else does these days. I have talked to thousands of guests. Its very very rare that they know of America Sings, or if they do, that they realize these characters came from there.

    Besides, it's mostly only the supporting characters that came from there anyway, with some notable exceptions being certain Brer Rabbit instances. (Actually, I myself find it intriguing to try to recall what each scene each animatronic came from, but that's beside the point).

    And yes, I do believe that one can *objectively* qualify a ride as interesting/full/rich, or plain and empty, regardless of whether one personally like it or not. I believe that that is a useful practice that Imagineers must be able to do for instance. I am sure there are Imagineers that don't care for Space Mountain, but none of them would say it's "Vanilla" or plain.

    Splash's unique hooks are
    1) getting the family wet on one of the steepest drops ever built for a flume attraction
    2) over 100 animatronic animals, singing 4 seperate songs, with a (hazy) storyline (but most great attractions have hazy storylines -- usually on purpose)
    3) (one of?) the first ever ride photo attractions. Granted this is much more common now, but Splash photos are still a great tradition. Many many many families buy a photo from Splash every year as a rule. The particular type of photos that this ride produces are unique in their humor due to the shocking drop, the wetness, etc etc. So guests look particularly goofy in the photo and this is what makes them great.
    4) some of the most beautifully composed scenes ever constructed in a ride in terms of colors, placement of characters, the interestingness of the scene itself (on its own merits, regardless of story). It's a piece of art.
    Quote Originally Posted by idreamofjeani View Post
    Actually Mr. Swab, I was being silly when I used 95% as a number exactly.

    However, I was not just making it up out of then air. That comes from my experience as a CM. You yourself can determine a number by standing at the exit of Splash for several days and gauging guest reactions. All those non-regulars, along with many regulars, love the ride.

    I have noticed that Splash is not very well visited by the regulars here at MiceChat, for whatever reason. But you stand at the exit and see how happy guests are and then you will see what I mean. Out of 20 guests, maybe 1 is unimpressed and not because they got wet (being "upset" about getting wet is part of the fun).

    As for Pooh, I have to agree that it should NOT go to Fantasyland in Disneyland. Because the Fantasyland in Disneyland has a very hyper European/Swiss thing going on, and it's quite cool. Pooh is hardly recognizable as European, except for the British references, and even then it's British woods and so on. It's does not have a very "Old World" feel to it. It would, architecturally, wreck the theming of Fantasyland in Disneyland. This is not as much of a problem in the Circus-Tent theming of Florida.
    Quote Originally Posted by idreamofjeani View Post
    I know this sounds a bit weird at first, but if you think about it, it makes sense:
    A Bambi ride in Critter Country. It could actually be a little boat ride down the rivers of the land, and you follow Thumper and Bambi, and so on. They are critter tastic, and there is no other land they make sense in but, wah lah, Critter Country.
    Quote Originally Posted by idreamofjeani View Post
    Well I am sorry if I get a bit touchy Swab, but I just felt your attitude towards Splash to be a bit dismissive. If you don't like the ride, that's one thing, but the kind of armchair Imagineering where you just rip out rides you personally don't like, without considering the merit of the ride itself, despite your personal likes and dislikes, bothers me. I guess I feel a bit defensive for my homeboy Tony Baxter. I thought his team did a fantastic job making a unique attraction and you totally refuse to budge an inch on this point. That makes me sad.

    I feel you got a lot more constructive once you moved on from that . I like the type of armchair Imagineering where you try to propose actual viable options that might make enough sense that actual Imagineers would (or already have) considered them. To me that is fun. But you sorta just said "screw Splash Mountain" and found that all of us that liked the ride (or at least saw its MERIT) were an annoying hindrance to your evil plans! :P

    And that made me very sad indeed. =(
    Quote Originally Posted by idreamofjeani View Post
    False. I never said that. I was in disagreement about removing Splash Mountain. I don't disagree about adding WRE somewhere. I even recommended alternatives (that you dismissed because of your other plans).

    Wait. Isn't that what the thread was about? I don't know. I was just going by the thread title and the thread's first post.

    Sorry for the confusion and wasting your time. I guess I shouldn't comprehend what I read. My bad.
    I think you never really read the original post (or at least never got past your own 'outrage' that I didn't share the same opinion of SM as you), and posted only to defend SM's merits (which were never mentioned in the OP); you were certainly not the only one to do so.
    I have quoted all your posts in this thread above. As I stated, there is NO mention of WRE, just pointless bickering trying to alter my opinion of SM. It is clear by reading the above posts, you participation in this thread was solely limited to argument over SM's virtues, not about the prospective merits of gaining a legendary (to Marc Davis fans, and imagineering fans alike) attraction that never realized its potential.
    I would also like to make it clear that your posting to ANY of my threads is more than welcome; encouraged, even. But the futility of arguing personal taste was not constructive to this thread, and therefore a waste of my (and your) time. In any case, it was undoubtedly LIVELY, if not off-topic, so thanks for the 'spice'.

  5. #155

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Personal feelings for the ride aside, again, from a business and operational stand point, it would make no sense to tear down an attraction with a high attendance rate...

  6. #156

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Another good reason for Splash to stay: the music. I find myself humming it all even when I'm NOT at Disneyland. Music is a reason why I think a Jungle Book ride in Animal Kingdom would be most welcome indeed.
    Maybe this is the reason SM's wild popularity is lost on me (and many others)--the music never had any impact on me, either. But back to the WRE for a second--the majority want it to stay, I realize (at least the majority on MC), but SM was a Band Aid (an albeit successful one) to thematically heal the NOS/Critter Country border clash. Yes, yes, it is certainly not a hastily constructed piece of imagineering fluff, but how much more enjoyable would an attraction be thats theme supported the surrounding attractions, not bridged a gap attempting to bypass thematic (and literal) dead-ends? Just my opinion, though--would like to hear all your'ns

  7. #157

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Quote Originally Posted by TheManator View Post
    Personal feelings for the ride aside, again, from a business and operational stand point, it would make no sense to tear down an attraction with a high attendance rate...
    The Storybookland Canal Boats ALWAYS have a line, but I wouldn't mind seeing them gone, especially if it was to be replaced by a potentially great E-Ticket. But propose such a change, and you have the Storybookland Canal Boat fans up in arms, lookin' for pointy objects.

    It is a matter of personal preference and priority. To those who love SM, it is unthinkable, and a bad decision. To those who don't like it, or are (like myself) ambivalent, its demolition represents a chance to get an attraction in return that we could love. I appreciate your point of view, however, and would ask all fans of SM to really look at WRE and what it had to offer, when trying to assess my sanity in creating this thread.

  8. #158

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    The Storybookland Canal Boats ALWAYS have a line, but I wouldn't mind seeing them gone, especially if it was to be replaced by a potentially great E-Ticket. But propose such a change, and you have the Storybookland Canal Boat fans up in arms, lookin' for pointy objects.

    It is a matter of personal preference and priority. To those who love SM, it is unthinkable, and a bad decision. To those who don't like it, or are (like myself) ambivalent, its demolition represents a chance to get an attraction in return that we could love. I appreciate your point of view, however, and would ask all fans of SM to really look at WRE and what it had to offer, when trying to assess my sanity in creating this thread.
    So anything that was built before 1985 you like or something? I am confused.

  9. #159

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    No, he's just saying that each of us have our favorite attractions that we are willing to protect, and sometimes our favorites differ from others.

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  10. #160

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    I think alot of people have made good points about why SM shouldn't be demolished. You seem offended that nobody is really considering your WRE. But since YOUR prerequisite for WRE is the demolition of a known favorite, dude what you expect? You imply we're being closed minded by our love for a ride you don't care for. But shouldn't that be a clue for you? Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't belong. Same goes for your thread, just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we don't have anything useful to say. And why so much importance on bridging themes anyway? Who cares? I like parts of your idea but not the destruction of CC. That seems to be most peoples reaction and that should be very informative to anyone suggesting that kind of change.

  11. #161

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Splash Mountain: Fun, thrilling flume ride with steep drops and some nice animatronics.

    Wester River Expedition: Float past cheeseball animatronic vignettes with cowboys and indians, truly a unique and fresh thing to see in the Southwestern US.

    Choice is obvious to me. If they ever do build WRE, please put it in Paris or Tokyo, where they're not inundated with southwestern imagery and iconography and give us something more exotic or unique, thanks.


  12. #162

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    and I further say, 'if you wanna make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs'.
    You bring up some points that might have a ounce of truth, But what you did not address is why we need make a omelet in the first place.

    change just for the reason of change is a bad idea. are there problems with SM that makes so bad it should go, and what is wrong having a part of the park that is quite (The poop ride) pooh.
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  13. #163

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Quote Originally Posted by cerpin taxt View Post
    I think alot of people have made good points about why SM shouldn't be demolished. You seem offended that nobody is really considering your WRE. But since YOUR prerequisite for WRE is the demolition of a known favorite, dude what you expect? You imply we're being closed minded by our love for a ride you don't care for. But shouldn't that be a clue for you? Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't belong. Same goes for your thread, just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we don't have anything useful to say. And why so much importance on bridging themes anyway? Who cares? I like parts of your idea but not the destruction of CC. That seems to be most peoples reaction and that should be very informative to anyone suggesting that kind of change.
    In re-reading this thread, I can see nothing that should lead anyone to the conclusion that I am 'offended'. In fact, the only 'offeneded' parties here are a handful of rabid SM fans. I ask consideration for WRE, as I did in my original post. I have never solicited, or expected acceptance of my proposal from the majority of MCers.

    Further, I have never dismissed anyone's differing opinion on the WRE matter. I would be interested in seeing which posting you think I have not addressed with polite opposition, and thoughtful debate (unless, of course, you have reference to the pointless debate with idreamofjeani, which hardly merits any further discussion).

    Who cares about theme? I do, for one. I want a theme park, not an amusement park--but this is off-topic, in any case. Some people merely cannot seem to engage in debate in a civil manner, without passions muddying the waters (and degrading the discussion).
    SM is a great attraction to some, to others an attraction which has no appeal, and to some a complete waste of space. The latter two groups are the people who may find it enjoyable to imagine what could be a 'better' use for that space. The subject of this thread, WRE, is my proposal regarding the use of that space. If one actually reads the entire thread, one may find that no one is under the impression that these plans will come to pass, nor will they find any argument regarding the general popularity of SM.

  14. #164

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    >>except Pooh is also popular more so than CBJ ever was<<

    As a franchise and character, yes, but not that ride, not by a longshot.

  15. #165

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    Re: Destruction of Splash Mountain and Critter Country

    Quote Originally Posted by tahoebob54 View Post
    You bring up some points that might have a ounce of truth, But what you did not address is why we need make a omelet in the first place.
    There is no 'need', only 'want'. I want a change. Some others feel the same way. But only a minority.
    change just for the reason of change is a bad idea. are there problems with SM that makes so bad it should go, and what is wrong having a part of the park that is quite (The poop ride) pooh.
    Why is it, then, perfectly acceptable to call for the destruction of the much-maligned Pooh, and not another attraction? Not all hate Pooh, just as not all enjoy SM. I would rather see WRE in its place; both their places to be more accurate.

    We have seen lately in the Park, decisions made on popularity alone that have turned out just as 'bad' (as you say) as change for change's sake. There have been instances lately of decisions that are good for business, bad for theme. How 'bout one that has a chance to satisfy both? You surely can't tell me people would stop going to DL if there were no SM. A new immersive, grand-scale E-Ticket may be great for the park, and Frontierland. All lose attractions they love. It is the nature of progress--leading the market by supplying demand hopefully before there is a demand.

    Do I think SM will be replaced? Not really, but I can still share with MCers (whether in agreement with me or no) what I envision for MY ideal Frontierland.

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