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  1. #121

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    Re: Disney Vault 28: A questionable new direction for the Disney brand.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSwami View Post
    You know, I never thought of Pirates of the Caribbean as this heavy-handed, didactic anti-drinking (and apparently anti-fun) message where "kids, if you do this stuff, you'll end up like these pirates, with your skeletons posed in fanciful ways atop piles of fake treasure!".

    When you float past the grotto, do you silently nod your head in agreement and point out to your children "listen up kids, if you do anything you're going to see in the vignettes past this point, this is what you'll become!" Call me crazy but I'm not sure that's what they had in mind while designing the ride. Otherwise maybe the grotto scene would come after the bit where you have a bunch of drunken pirates shooting at eachother.

    Not that the ride "condones" drinking per se, but it's no different from when someone in a Looney Tunes cartoon is comically drunk.

    I don't get it man. I think you're kinda hung up on the notion that Disney has to not only be completely innocuous, but they also have to cater to the values of the most prudish among us. Which I really don't think is the case. They provide family entertainment, but the notion of what that is has changed a lot since 1955.

    And again, Vault 28 is something completely different. Not everything the company does has to be appropriate for Fantasyland.
    I've never thought about that before. Now that I think more about it, Disney has also incorporated alcohol into some of their movies. Like Beauty and the Beast, when Gaston and his cronies are drinking beer and singing in a drunken stupor at the local pub, or in Great Mouse Detective when Bartholemew gets drunk while singing the song, "The Worlds Most Dangerous Criminal Mind." Also, there is a segment in the Great Mouse Detective where the two main characters visit a burlesque show while others in attendance have already gotten drunk. Don't forget about Who Framed Roger Rabbit and all the alcohol/sexual content in that film.

    All of these films are Disney, have connections to Disney, and have been aimed at little children.

  2. #122

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    Re: Disney Vault 28: A questionable new direction for the Disney brand.

    dsny1mom

    Quote Originally Posted by dsny1mom View Post
    What I find to be so amazing about this topic is that MasterGracey, I beleive, is in his late teens or earlt 20s and I am in my late 50's. Many older folks like myself would probably side with him and many younger folks like MG would probably side with my stance.
    Wow, really? Just goes to show that no matter the age, opinions vary greatly as to what is and should be socially acceptable, at least as far as Disney is concerned.

    My Mom was a cool Mom too. She raised both my sister and I to be good kids and we were good teenagers too... though we did cause our fair share of trouble. A good parent really pays attention to what their kids are doing and helps them along the way to become better people. Congrats on being one of those parents! I hope I can be that cool when I have kids...

    Well, hopefully we'll see each other in the park... you in your Lil' Miss Martini shirt and me in my Death by Sexy shirt. I'm sure we'll know each other on site!
    <3 There are a million cupcakes in the world but only one is Cupcake Terror. <3

    I AM THE REBEL SPY.



  3. #123

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    Re: Disney Vault 28: A questionable new direction for the Disney brand.

    LOL, HH.

    Since I don't drink any alcohol (not even beer or wine) that T wouldn't be for me. Infact I don't wear any screen printed T's at all. But hey, I still think they should be available for anyone that wants them!!! And I'm sure you'd look adorable in yours.

    dsny1mom

  4. #124

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    Re: Disney Vault 28: A questionable new direction for the Disney brand.

    MasterGacey , i think you present a very valid argument , i agree with you on some points and not so much on others.

    I think ultimately if you don't like Vault28 ( i don't mean You as in YOU MASTERGRACEY but you directed to the general population ) then don't go inside , if it bothers you enough so that you are worried it will lead other peoples kids to some sort of underage alcoholic epidemic then contact Disney and let them know of your disappointment in their brand.

    It think it's up to the parents (as it usually is ) to decide what they do and don't want their kids to be exposed to , and hopefully we can trust them to make the right decisions. I personally might not let my 14 year old daughter ( i don't have a daughter... this is just hypothetical ) i might not let her wear a t-shirt that says "tequila Makes Me Loco" but another parent might... and that is their decision to make

    as far as encouraging underage drinking , all i can say about that is give a kid a shot of Tequila and they will most likley spit it out... maybe even cry

    in the end Disney ( like all businesses ) is in it to make money , if the Vault28 brand doesn't pan out or becomes unprofitable because concerned parents stop going inside , then they will surely close it or change the approach toward the store . Have confidence that the free market will take care of it self. Remember "BIG JOHNSON" t shirts , those stopped being popular and now i you can't find them anywhere

    My Maleficent tattoo



  5. #125

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    Re: Disney Vault 28: A questionable new direction for the Disney brand.

    Quote Originally Posted by dsny1mom View Post
    HH

    What I find to be so amazing about this topic is that MasterGracey, I beleive, is in his late teens or earlt 20s and I am in my late 50's. Many older folks like myself would probably side with him and many younger folks like MG would probably side with my stance.

    But then again, I was always a *cool* mom, just ask my now 20 something kids. LOL Who by the way are either still in college, or already have their degree, and never gave me one problem as teens, with the exception of not cleaning their rooms. But heh, if that 's the worst they did, I'd say I did ok as a parent. The real test of how well I parented, IMHO, will be when they have their own children. I'd hope they'd have no problem with the Vaut merchandise being sold by Disney when they are DLR with their kids in tow, because they would be the type of parents that actually taught their kids what is right vs wrong and appropriate vs inappropriate, like their mama did.

    dsny1mom

    I think people aren't getting my point. It's not that I'm against these shirts. I'm not a prude, and I'm not so naive to think that these shirts are going to cause a revoluton of drunken underage kids.

    Yet, I do believe that Disney has established itself as a company with strong family values - and these shirts contradict that.

    I've addressed the differences between these shirts and the actions depicted in Pirates of the Caribbean, etc. Pirates is heavily stylized, caracatured, humorous, and presents the consequnces of the Pirates' actions. Additionally, Disneyland was designed by Walt Disney to be partially a museum of living facts... and depicting the pirates as being sober, or a Frontier fort without guns, etc, would NOT allow Disneyland to be a "museum of living facts."

    These shirts are also stylized and humorous, but they fail to present any consequences for getting "loco" with tequila.

    I think its the Comapany's responsibilty to some degree to make sure it sets a good example to its consumers... and these shirts aren't doing that. And they stray from Disney's family values.


    If these shirts were being sold anywhere else, at Hot Topic, Forever 21, a trendy boutique in Hollywood... anywhere else... I wouldn't even care. But DISNEY is selling them... and Disney has a reputation and values that it likes to boast about. So Disney ought to live up to those values... should it not?

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  6. #126

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    Re: Disney Vault 28: A questionable new direction for the Disney brand.

    Oh, MG I get your point, and I have from the beginning understood that your point is that you don't feel Disney should let these items be sold at a store that has their name on it. You feel by doing so they are not backing up the values they promote.

    What I am saying is that there are many other things Disney does, even inside their parks, that don't back up those values. Society has changed, like it or not, and things that were once taboo are now acceptable. Maybe not to you but to our society in general T's like these fall into that group of things.

    So what others amd I have been trying to to do is show you some of the other things (like alcohol in the parks, etc.) that also don't fall into that squeaky clean perfect image. But you keep saying no those things are different because ____________ (fill in the blank with any one of your reasons). Problem I am having with you is you have zoned in on the T shirts and make excuses for Disney's involvement with other gray areas.

    The whole showing consequences thing just doesn't hold any water as far as I am concerned. If that was truely what Disney is doing they wouldn't be selling toy guns, swords and the like as they wouldn't want kids to portray the bad guy.

    But even if we just look at the T shirt issue and compare it to none of the other things, it still comes up with the same basic fact......... Those T shirts are being sold because someone thinks they will sell and turn a profit to a group of people that would go into a store at DTD named Vault 28. They don't cross any major value boundaries, in today's society. If anyone thinks kids or teens shouldn't be wearing them or even looking at them, then it is not Disney's job to prevent that, that is the job of the kids parents.

    I know a very conservative couple with children. They won't take their children to any Disney Parks because they have witches in them. So in their eyes Disney lets them down as they feel witches don't fit into the family friemdly values Disney says they have. I don't have a problem with witches or the Tshirts or even the toy guns. But if memory serves me well, and it may not as I fall asleep during every animated movie I have ever tried to watch.... but I think there were a number of ify things that were said by the Genie in Alladin, but hey I could be wrong.

    dsny1mom

  7. #127

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    Re: Disney Vault 28: A questionable new direction for the Disney brand.

    Quote Originally Posted by dsny1mom View Post
    Oh, MG I get your point, and I have from the beginning understood that your point is that you don't feel Disney should let these items be sold at a store that has their name on it. You feel by doing so they are not backing up the values they promote.

    What I am saying is that there are many other things Disney does, even inside their parks, that don't back up those values. Society has changed, like it or not, and things that were once taboo are now acceptable. Maybe not to you but to our society in general T's like these fall into that group of things.

    So what others amd I have been trying to to do is show you some of the other things (like alcohol in the parks, etc.) that also don't fall into that squeaky clean perfect image. But you keep saying no those things are different because ____________ (fill in the blank with any one of your reasons). Problem I am having with you is you have zoned in on the T shirts and make excuses for Disney's involvement with other gray areas.

    The whole showing consequences thing just doesn't hold any water as far as I am concerned. If that was truely what Disney is doing they wouldn't be selling toy guns, swords and the like as they wouldn't want kids to portray the bad guy.

    But even if we just look at the T shirt issue and compare it to none of the other things, it still comes up with the same basic fact......... Those T shirts are being sold because someone thinks they will sell and turn a profit to a group of people that would go into a store at DTD named Vault 28. They don't cross any major value boundaries, in today's society. If anyone thinks kids or teens shouldn't be wearing them or even looking at them, then it is not Disney's job to prevent that, that is the job of the kids parents.

    I know a very conservative couple with children. They won't take their children to any Disney Parks because they have witches in them. So in their eyes Disney lets them down as they feel witches don't fit into the family friemdly values Disney says they have. I don't have a problem with witches or the Tshirts or even the toy guns. But if memory serves me well, and it may not as I fall asleep during every animated movie I have ever tried to watch.... but I think there were a number of ify things that were said by the Genie in Alladin, but hey I could be wrong.

    dsny1mom
    Fair enough.

    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You keep making the same rebuttal argument despite the fact that I've made my rebuttal to your argument.

    That's fine. If you think it's appropriate for Disney to sell merchandise supporting alcohol consumption, then I suppose that's your stance as the "cool mom" that you are. But personally, I think its far less of an issue of bieng a "cool company" for Disney as it is to maintaining the company's long-established culture and foundations in family entertainment.

    Agreed to disagree.

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  8. #128

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    Re: Disney Vault 28: A questionable new direction for the Disney brand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diznyfan View Post
    JI dont think the Op cares if these products are being sold just not by Disney. I also am a stockholder and I dont like it either. I like the wholesome family image of the WDC and I know this reputation will carry the company far into the future. I would hate to see it tarnished by something so stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    Innocence is a large part of Disney's image and identity.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSwami View Post
    They provide family entertainment, but the notion of what that is has changed a lot since 1955.

    And again, Vault 28 is something completely different. Not everything the company does has to be appropriate for Fantasyland.
    Quote Originally Posted by dsny1mom View Post
    I feel if Disney is going to be held responsible for **traditional** family friendly values with its products then they need to have those same standards with anything with their name on it or that they are invested in.
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    If these shirts were being sold anywhere else, at Hot Topic, Forever 21, a trendy boutique in Hollywood... anywhere else... I wouldn't even care. But DISNEY is selling them... and Disney has a reputation and values that it likes to boast about. So Disney ought to live up to those values... should it not?
    Daring to jump into the fray here.....

    What remains of the Disney Company's legacy, in my opinion, is the illusion of "family-oriented" entertainment and products. Their reputation persists only because of what people expect them to be, or remember them once being. They have a brand to sell, and they're not eager to antagonize those who are most likely to buy it.

    They can't help being an icon, but behind the scenes I think they're more willing all the time to break the mold. The merchandise in question is just one glimpse of that, not that I approve of it.

    I have seen Disney merchandise evolve over the decades, from cheaply made stuff, to well crafted souvenirs, and then pretty much seesawing between "hip", understated items and those that are unabashedly Disney-themed. To some degree they've always catered to the fashion of the times. I stopped blindly trusting everything they offer to be wholesome long ago. But I can bet that all it takes is enough angry letters to make them drop a particular line of products.

  9. #129

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    Re: Disney Vault 28: A questionable new direction for the Disney brand.

    ALARMING BREAKING NEWS!!!!......................
    Mice Chat enthusiasts will especially appreciate the fact that Vault 28 has reluctantly withdrawn the majority of its chic L.A. - couture clothing line--------------only to replace it with baby clothes and tacky over-priced theme hats. Sadly the bulk-tourist-public could not support such a tasteful outlet despite Disney's best effort to provide a touch of class to the resort. On further note Anaheim's Garden Walk will no less be willing to absorb the niche market of young and hip shoppers by providing them with multiple shopping venues, resulting in a profit loss in the multi millions of dollars for the Disney Co. in clothing and park revenue, and further separating the company from the young and hip professional market share. Among the lost consumers are a growing number of young professionals that have no desire or plans to have children.

  10. #130

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    Re: Disney Vault 28: A questionable new direction for the Disney brand.

    "Fair enough."



    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You keep making the same rebuttal argument despite the fact that I've made my rebuttal to your argument.

    I agree.

    "That's fine. If you think it's appropriate for Disney to sell merchandise supporting alcohol consumption, then I suppose that's your stance as the "cool mom" that you are. But personally, I think its far less of an issue of bieng a "cool company" for Disney as it is to maintaining the company's long-established culture and foundations in family entertainment."

    Just as much as you think it is appropriate for Disney to sell toy weapons, alcohol in their parks and have adult referances in their G rated animation.

    "Agreed to disagree."

    Sure.

    dsny1mom

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