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  1. #46

    • Knight that says Nee!!
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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Tobbasco is more my taste

    My problem with the "BB theory" (as a cetain director will call it in his soon to be shooting film that Swabby has commisioned) is that most of the smaller BB guns (thus easy to hide and sneak into the park) normally wouldn't fire a type of BB nor at the kind of velocity to get full penetration on that glass. The glass isn't super thick but thick enough that standard "soft air" or CO2 BB guns might chip it but would UNLIKELY not go all the way through it. A pump BB gun that it pumped up enough might fire at the right velocity but would have to fire a steele BB to get all the way through. Those pump BB guns however are large and much harder to sneak in.

    My money is on a wrist rocket. Using steele ball bearings and with a W/R of suitible "tension" it could put the ball all the way through glass like that found at the GC Panorama and would be "silent" and easy to conceal.

  2. #47

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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    I stand by that every report about the holes all say it was a .22. But then again us Americans love a good conspiracy theory.

  3. #48

    • Minion FOREVER!
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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Oh, where's Froggy when you need him? :-)

  4. #49

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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirton View Post
    I stand by that every report about the holes all say it was a .22. But then again us Americans love a good conspiracy theory.
    I'm not saying it was a conspiracy. I'm saying I want to see EVIDENCE.

    Not "He said;"

    Not "It couldn't be done."

    And THAT is VERY American.

  5. #50

    • Practically Magic
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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzmati View Post
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/disney-faq/haunted-mansion/

    "As you're going through it look and you'll notice what's supposed to look
    like a spider web on one of the sheets of glass. (It's on one of the
    last ones you see) The story I heard behind this (from a HM Cast Member
    and a good friend of mine) is that one night somebody actually shot
    through the glass, leaving a bullet hole.

    This was confirmed by Mark Keiser (Retlaw 72-76 Security 77-81) Summer
    1974 "The guy that shot there presumably also shot the hole in the last
    or second to last window of the Primeval World diorama. Later
    investigation determined the hole to be .22 caliber (in both places), and
    bullet fragments matched (courtesy of Anaheim PD) the holes in Adventures
    in Inner Space (he shot up the snow flakes)."

    There is another bullet sized hole beneath the duelist on the right, so
    perhaps a deranged guest was shooting at "the man with the gun".

    They knew that to replace the glass they'd have to take the roof off the
    building first, so they decided to simply disguise it as a spider web.
    BTW, there is a spare pane in the back lot."
    Okay, wait a second. I see some of you talking about a bullet hole in the beginning of the Grand Canyon scene, so why does this mention something about the last section of the Primeval World scene? Are there two separate bullet holes in that segment of the DLRR, or did the same bullet hole somehow manage to switch locations between the beginning and the end of that stretch of the DLRR?

  6. #51

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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirton View Post
    I stand by that every report about the holes all say it was a .22.
    This is what Mansion CMs were told in the late seventies during training. I was told the same story during a CM open house in 1980.

    Gun incidents have happened at DL, especially before the days of bag checks and "heightened" security. One day while I was walking to my area office above America Sings, I witnessed an altercation near the subs entrance, during which an idiot guest pulled out a pistol as tempers flared. Thankfully, an off-duty cop was nearby, who didn't check his weapon with security (as is customary) when he entered the park. I'd hate to think what could have happened, had this cop not pulled out his pistol and shoved it in the idiot's face before he could fire off a shot.

    I see no reason for Mansion trainers to push a false story just a few years after the incident happened. Those trainers were working the attraction when the bullet holes were created. They would have known firsthand what happened from the police investigation. I have no doubt that the bullet holes were created by a .22 caliber pistol and not a BB gun.
    "Dope smoking insects and reckless driving always work." -- Cousin Orville

  7. #52

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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    "A CM Said..."

    I'll wait for something more definitive. Thanks.

  8. #53

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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    "A CM Said..."

    I'll wait for something more definitive. Thanks.
    You'll "wait"?? Why not be more proactive and do some research, if you're so convinced.

    Contact some of your sources within the company and ask them. Send Broggie an email about it. If he doesn't know, I'm sure he can find out for you.

    If all else fails, corner Tony Baxter at the next Disney event and ask him. If anyone would know the truth to this story, it would be Tony.
    "Dope smoking insects and reckless driving always work." -- Cousin Orville

  9. #54

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    Cool Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Boys Boys Boys...

    Can we all just put 'em safely back in our holsters for a second?

    FACTS: A couple of days ago, a former CM opened a post with an observation: he had just noticed the bullet hole in the glass in the Grand Canyon diarama (this hole has been there for decades - I remember seeing it back when I worked in the Park in the late 70's). Another poster brought up that the Haunted Mansion Hole appeared at about the same time (again, I remember seeing IT there when I was an employee: so 1977 - 1980), and still another poster opined that they were both the work of the same person / drunken sailor / religious zealot.
    In any case, this Perp was never caught (as far as any of us has ever heard), nor was the damage able to be repaired: both panes are too big of a Pain to replace...

    In the last couple of days, All Hell has broken loose on this thread: Charges of "Conspiracy Theories", Huge Debates about what caliber the ammo was that inflicted the damage, Arguments about What Type of Weapon was involved: gun, bb gun, wrist rocket, slingshot, pea shooter... and nasty, vindictive, belittling, condescending, hostile talk between - otherwise respected - MiceChatters.

    "Do Your Research!"
    "I DARE you to provide PROOF"
    "Why don't YOU investigate the matter with the Anaheim Police Dept?!"
    (I am sure that APD has BIGGER fish to fry than a 40-year-old vandalism complaint...)
    "I'm not taking just 'anyone's word' for it - I want a SIGNED AFFIDAVIT FROM THE CRIMINAL HIMSELF!"

    Answers:
    - If hit just right, a stalk of wheat can go right through a telephone pole in a high wind (I saw it when I lived in Kansas, right after a very small tornado / storm)
    - If hit just right, a small piece of pea gravel, kicked up by the car in front of you, can shatter your windshield - or blow a hole clean through it, or just bounce off...

    In THIS case:
    - the ammo used was (a) large enough to inflict an 'insult' about the size of a .22 caliber shell (be it a bullet, a bb, a rock, or Evinrude with a tail wind) and (b) it was thrown / shot / spit with enough force to pierce at least two HUGE panes of glass, in two separate attractions.
    - the Perpetrator was disrespectful, ignorant, and an idiot: his vandalism caused 'permanent' damage to otherwise beautful attractions that we all care about.
    - no " new leads* " are likely to come forward...
    * "new information leading to the arrest or conviction of a suspect" - not "Supervising Cast Members"

    Now, can we all just get along? Can we go back to respectful, enlightening, entertaining discussions regarding our beloved Park(s)?

    Don't make me get out the apples...
    EvilQueen
    Last edited by EvilQueen; 09-02-2007 at 02:54 AM.

  10. #55

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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilQueen View Post
    Boys Boys Boys...

    Can we all just put 'em safely back in our holsters for a second?

    FACTS: A couple of days ago, a former CM opened a post with an observation: he had just noticed the bullet hole in the glass in the Grand Canyon diarama (this hole has been there for decades - I remember seeing it back when I worked in the Park in the late 70's). Another poster brought up that the Haunted Mansion Hole appeared at about the same time (again, I remember seeing IT there when I was an employee: so 1977 - 1980), and still another poster opined that they were both the work of the same person / drunken sailor / religious zealot.
    In any case, this Perp was never caught (as far as any of us has ever heard), nor was the damage able to be repaired: both panes are too big of a Pain to replace...

    In the last couple of days, All Hell has broken loose on this thread: Charges of "Conspiracy Theories", Huge Debates about what caliber the ammo was that inflicted the damage, Arguments about What Type of Weapon was involved: gun, bb gun, wrist rocket, slingshot, pea shooter... and nasty, vindictive, belittling, condescending, hostile talk between - otherwise respected - MiceChatters.

    "Do Your Research!"
    "I DARE you to provide PROOF"
    "Why don't YOU investigate the matter with the Anaheim Police Dept?!"
    (I am sure that APD has BIGGER fish to fry than a 40-year-old vandalism complaint...)
    "I'm not taking just 'anyone's word' for it - I want a SIGNED AFFIDAVIT FROM THE CRIMINAL HIMSELF!"

    Answers:
    - If hit just right, a stalk of wheat can go right through a telephone pole in a high wind (I saw it when I lived in Kansas, right after a very small tornado / storm)
    - If his just right, a small piece of pea gravel, kicked up by the car in front of you, can shatter your windshield - or blow a hole clean through it, or just bounce off...

    In THIS case:
    - the ammo used was (a) large enough to inflict an 'insult' about the size of a .22 caliber shell (be it a bullet, a bb, a rock, or Evinrude with a tail wind) and (b) it was thrown / shot / spit with enough force to pierce at least two HUGE panes of glass, in two separate attractions.
    - the Perpetrator was disrespectful, ignorant, and an idiot: his vandalism caused 'permanent' damage to otherwise beautful attractions that we all care about.
    - no " new leads* " are likely to come forward...
    * "new information leading to the arrest or conviction of a suspect" - not "Supervising Cast Members"

    Now, can we all just get along? Can we go back to respectful, enlightening, entertaining discussions regarding our beloved Park(s)?

    Don't make me get out the apples...
    EvilQueen
    I just thought it was an NRA member asserting his Constitutional Right to shoot up Theme Parks wherever and whenever he damn well pleased.

    Frankly, I think it was just bad theming. He should have done this in Frontierland.

  11. #56

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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Last I heard, this was a message board where said people could come and opine about anything Disney.

    There are hundreds of threads on, "what's your favorite" here on MC, so I welcome a debate or a good mystery. Keep it up people and make me proud.


    This has been a Filmways presentation dahling.

  12. #57

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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Until someone can produce a police report or can quote a credible named source IMO I'd say that both the .22 and wrist rocket theories would work. There are some tiny .22s out there and if they are firing short loads they can be pretty quiet and make little more noise than a cap gun. I'm sure it could have passed for some kind of track noise in the diorama. Haunted is a supposed to be scary anyway so who knows if a guest would have said anything.

    At least no one was hurt.

  13. #58

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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Here's a theory:

    The perpetrator goes to the Haunted Mansion FIRST. He times his shot to coincide with the duelists, so the sound of his gun seems to be part of the ride. Perhaps it is still morning when he rides, and he is able to get a buggy with no or few guests in buggies around him. THEN he gets on the DLRR, and shoots the diorama glass. Perhaps the noise was in fact confused as a track or train sound. It is dark in there, so it would be hard to tell what just happened. And if he put his gun right away, there would be no suspicion on him in particular. Castmembers would not have realized yet that an actual bullet had be fired into the actual glass. So it's not as though they would just hold all the guests there until the Security/Police got there to interogate them all. They would not even know what the sound was in the first place!

  14. #59

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    Re: Disneyland Railroad...has anyone else noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirton View Post
    I stand by that every report about the holes all say it was a .22. But then again us Americans love a good conspiracy theory.
    I will say that a small .22 pistol firing subsonic rounds would actually make very little noise and be small enough to easily conceal, so this theory is not outlandish.

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