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  1. #61

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDisney View Post
    I will consider that permission to blame all the "deconstructors" and "re-imagineer"-ers when the stock tanks due to unecessary spending on a park that doesn't need that big of an influx of cash...
    So, you consider any investment used in improving the parks as the reason the company’s stock would tank? As DCA has proven FINANCIALLY that it needs a significant reinvestment to correct it’s shortcomings, you feel that the money shouldn’t be used and that the park should be left alone?

  2. #62

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    no not worried and CARLAND is a working title not the final one.

    DCA is suppose to get several attractions

    monsters, bugsland, toy story and rataouille do not seem like the majority of attractions.

    Carland as is being called is not even suppose to be themed to the movie except for one of its attractions.

    besides the attractions fit there land. bugs in a farm. Cars in a route 66 themed land, toys in a carnival/pier

  3. #63

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    See, that was the original thinking behind Disney's California Adventure. Something like the $4 billion being spent on Tokyo Disney Sea was considered extreme and unneccessary. Tokyo Disney Sea may not be living up 100% to the Oriental Land Company and Disney's expectations, but it sure is doing better than Disney's California Adventure.

    From all the media sources I've seen it suffers from exactly the same issue - it is "fine" but the guests overwhelmingly prefer the "Disneyland" concept and vote with their feet. Again, if the majority of posters here were to go to DisneySeas 4-5 times my bet is some of these perceptions would start to wear off - last time I went there with my kids they all chose TDL even though we go to the US parks all the time. When we did go to DisneySeas we did the couple of "must do" rides (Indy, Journey, etc.) and skipped those that are true "one timers" after you've done them before (Sinbad, weather station ride, Aladdin show, steamer line boat, little train, off the shelf Little Mermaid rides, etc.) and we were out in about 4 hours while we spent 2 full days in TDL. And during that trip (as like the last couple of times) - TDL is packed and DisneySeas is has a "comfortable" crowd wandering through it.

    The issue in all of these parks, is there is Disneyland and then there is the "other" park. Disneyland gives you the characters, Walt's vision, adventure, tomorrowland, fantasyland, etc. and the others, well, don't.

  4. #64

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    No, it is your money at stake. Failure at the Tokyo Disney Resort means less money that Disney gets from the Resort. It may also hamper further expansion in Japan, as the Oriental Land Company might be less willing to risk what Walt Disney Attractions Japan is pushing.
    Kind of like what's happening with Hong Kong Disneyland. Because of the very poor attendance figures, the Government of Hong Kong is now reluctant to spend any more money on the park.

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHost2 View Post
    And also Tokyo Disney Sea is the fourth most visited theme park in the world, and by far the most visited second gate. That proves that quality=attendance. DCA is far from quality, DCA looks like a really small and crappy traveling carnival compared to Tokyo Disney Sea. I think 1.2 billion dollars is no where near enough to make DCA as good as TDS.
    I agree.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  5. #65

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by rgrant999 View Post
    From all the media sources I've seen it suffers from exactly the same issue - it is "fine" but the guests overwhelmingly prefer the "Disneyland" concept and vote with their feet. Again, if the majority of posters here were to go to DisneySeas 4-5 times my bet is some of these perceptions would start to wear off - last time I went there with my kids they all chose TDL even though we go to the US parks all the time. When we did go to DisneySeas we did the couple of "must do" rides (Indy, Journey, etc.) and skipped those that are true "one timers" after you've done them before (Sinbad, weather station ride, Aladdin show, steamer line boat, little train, off the shelf Little Mermaid rides, etc.) and we were out in about 4 hours while we spent 2 full days in TDL. And during that trip (as like the last couple of times) - TDL is packed and DisneySeas is has a "comfortable" crowd wandering through it.

    The issue in all of these parks, is there is Disneyland and then there is the "other" park. Disneyland gives you the characters, Walt's vision, adventure, tomorrowland, fantasyland, etc. and the others, well, don't.
    Looking at the attendance figures, Tokyo DisneySea doesn't seem to be that far off from Tokyo Disneyland. Yes, guests will always prefer the Magic Kingdom style park. That is a given; just look at any Disney resort. But that doesn't mean we can't get a second gate that's at least of equal quality as the first gate.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  6. #66

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Yes.




    At this point, with plans to add Ratatouille and The Little Mermaid, I hope that Disney completely drops the California theme. As it stands, the California theme is hemmoraging uncontrollably, and has essentially been rendered irrelevant over the last 6 years with additions like A Bug's Land, Monsters Inc, Block Party Bash, etc.

    I do think a California theme could work. A real California theme. But Disney simply isn't willing to do it because the current WDI/Disney mentality when it comes to the Parks and Resorts means that everything MUST tie into a movie, and if it's Pixar, then your Christmas bonus will be even bigger.

    It's a sad truth.


    But at this point, considering there has been no indication that the California theme is actually going to be dropped, or that the theme is actually going to be acknowledged and strengthened, then I'm not getting even remotely excited for any DCA plans.

    I told somebody in another thread that I was going to enjoy breathing for the next decade while DCA gets its makeover, because I'm sure as hell not going to be holding my breath for anything remarkable.
    I agree. They need to drop the CA theme. At this point Pixarland is about right. But at the same time, the park does need help so I'm torn. How hard is it to theme anyway? You take like items and put them together (ie: a horse, cowboy, desert, stagecoach etc. and you have wildwest/frontier).
    Quote by Al:
    To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
    -Al Lutz



  7. #67

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    Looking at the attendance figures, Tokyo DisneySea doesn't seem to be that far off from Tokyo Disneyland. Yes, guests will always prefer the Magic Kingdom style park. That is a given; just look at any Disney resort. But that doesn't mean we can't get a second gate that's at least of equal quality as the first gate.
    Always hard to get a read on that as they have the same "click" issue as how many one day passes are purchased for TDS vs. clicks coming off of multi-day tickets? Also, for those familiar with Japanese shopping habits and gift giving, the DL shops are filled with people with literal shopping carts while TDS you could shoot a cannon through the shops when I've been there. Again, one man's opinion only as a tourist and not trying to say TDS is not a success as I don't know what their investment return criteria is, just saying that billions of dollars can't always fix the core issue - the theme, intent, purpose, and "magic" of a park. I was "wow'd" the first time I went to TDS - it is a truly beautiful, detailed park - it just left me cold vs. TDL, that's all - and after multiple visits the "wow" lessened and the reality of what there is to do there vs. TDL sank in.

  8. #68

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    So, you consider any investment used in improving the parks as the reason the company’s stock would tank? As DCA has proven FINANCIALLY that it needs a significant reinvestment to correct it’s shortcomings, you feel that the money shouldn’t be used and that the park should be left alone?
    Slow, well planned, and fully fiscally funded growth is good, this rush job to change the park is wrong IMHO.

    I am not saying that investment in the park is bad, quite the opposite, but throwing a BILLION dollars at the park without a clear, concise plan is a BIG MISTAKE.
    BRYANT - MEGADISNEY
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  9. #69

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    Looking at the attendance figures, Tokyo DisneySea doesn't seem to be that far off from Tokyo Disneyland. Yes, guests will always prefer the Magic Kingdom style park. That is a given; just look at any Disney resort. But that doesn't mean we can't get a second gate that's at least of equal quality as the first gate.
    Add to this that before 2001 Tokyo Disneyland was the most visited park in the world (16 million+). That means that some people who would have gone to Tokyo Disneyland for a day have now decided to go to Tokyo Disney Sea. The different ticketing structure has probably had a positive effect (no one or two day hoppers) but does anybody think they'd survive in Anaheim with such a structure? The Annual Pass for only Disneyland had to be discontinued becuase it was becoming the overwhelming choice over adding Disney's California Adventure.

  10. #70

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFreak71 View Post
    How hard is it to theme anyway? You take like items and put them together (ie: a horse, cowboy, desert, stagecoach etc. and you have wildwest/frontier).
    That is a very RCT understanding of theming.

    According to the threads on Micechat, themeing is an extremely complicated issue.
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  11. #71

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDisney View Post
    Slow, well planned, and fully fiscally funded growth is good, this rush job to change the park is wrong IMHO.

    I am not saying that investment in the park is bad, quite the opposite, but throwing a BILLION dollars at the park without a clear, concise plan is a BIG MISTAKE.
    It's $1.2 billion over ten years. You're acting as if this is all coming in the next year.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDisney View Post
    According to the threads on Micechat, themeing is an extremely complicated issue.
    It's according to Walt Disney Imagineering too.

  12. #72

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by rgrant999 View Post
    Always hard to get a read on that as they have the same "click" issue as how many one day passes are purchased for TDS vs. clicks coming off of multi-day tickets? Also, for those familiar with Japanese shopping habits and gift giving, the DL shops are filled with people with literal shopping carts while TDS you could shoot a cannon through the shops when I've been there. Again, one man's opinion only as a tourist and not trying to say TDS is not a success as I don't know what their investment return criteria is, just saying that billions of dollars can't always fix the core issue - the theme, intent, purpose, and "magic" of a park. I was "wow'd" the first time I went to TDS - it is a truly beautiful, detailed park - it just left me cold vs. TDL, that's all - and after multiple visits the "wow" lessened and the reality of what there is to do there vs. TDL sank in.
    I can see how you felt that way. Personally, I love Tokyo DisneySea. It is my favorite Disney park, and I've been visiting it every year. Unlike you though, I spend the bulk of my 5 day trip at Tokyo DisneySea (I usually spend about 4 days there versus about 1-1.5 day for Tokyo Disneyland). I like the atmosphere much more and the attractions too. Yes, there is not as much to do as Tokyo Disneyland. However, I feel just spending time and looking and the lavish theming is enough for a Disney fan like me. No other Disney park beats Tokyo DisneySea's atmosphere for me. I find it more magical than Tokyo Disneyland actually; at no other theme park have I felt the same sense of immersion. Again, I love the Magic Kingdoms; I just love Tokyo DisneySea more.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  13. #73

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by TDR_Fan View Post
    I can see how you felt that way. Personally, I love Tokyo DisneySea. It is my favorite Disney park, and I've been visiting it every year. Unlike you though, I spend the bulk of my 5 day trip at Tokyo DisneySea (I usually spend about 4 days there versus about 1-1.5 day for Tokyo Disneyland). I like the atmosphere much more and the attractions too. Yes, there is not as much to do as Tokyo Disneyland. However, I feel just spending time and looking and the lavish theming is enough for a Disney fan like me. No other Disney park beats Tokyo DisneySea's atmosphere for me. I find it more magical than Tokyo Disneyland actually; at no other theme park have I felt the same sense of immersion. Again, I love the Magic Kingdoms; I just love Tokyo DisneySea more.
    That's great - no argument from me - you can't quantify "magic", "atmosphere", and people's connection to a place. Scale, number of attractions, etc. you can measure, but the rest is up to the individual. This Disney fan prefers TDL, but that's what makes the world go round - You must set some kind of record for 4 days at TDS - wow, that's a lot of Sinbad...

  14. #74

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Add to this that before 2001 Tokyo Disneyland was the most visited park in the world (16 million+). That means that some people who would have gone to Tokyo Disneyland for a day have now decided to go to Tokyo Disney Sea. The different ticketing structure has probably had a positive effect (no one or two day hoppers) but does anybody think they'd survive in Anaheim with such a structure? The Annual Pass for only Disneyland had to be discontinued becuase it was becoming the overwhelming choice over adding Disney's California Adventure.
    I heard that because they do not offer one day park hoppers, many people opt to just buy an one day passport to Tokyo Disneyland. I'm curious as to how selling park hoppers would affect Tokyo DisneySea's attendance. Another thing to take into account is that Tokyo DisneySea is larger and more spread out than Tokyo Disneyland. Whereas Tokyo Disneyland might feel more crowded due to the compact nature of the park, the two parks might only be several thousand guests off from each other.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


  15. #75

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    Re: Does anyone get worried that DCA's revival isn't going to be the expected miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by rgrant999 View Post
    That's great - no argument from me - you can't quantify "magic", "atmosphere", and people's connection to a place. Scale, number of attractions, etc. you can measure, but the rest is up to the individual. This Disney fan prefers TDL, but that's what makes the world go round - You must set some kind of record for 4 days at TDS - wow, that's a lot of Sinbad...
    I think I only rode Sindbad's Storybook Voyage about 5 times. I like it a lot better now since the refurb. The attractions I rode the most were Journey to the Center of the Earth, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Indiana Jones Adventure, and Tower of Terror. The rest of the time was spent taking in the atmosphere and magnificent vistas of the park, dining in the lavishly themed restaurants, and shopping in the equally themed shops.
    ~ Tokyo DisneySea’s Arabian Coast at nighttime ~


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