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  1. #91

    • Darkbeer
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    Re: Amazing NY Times article from February 11th, 2001 and Paradise Pier

    OK, the history of the "2fer" Southern California Disneyland Resort ticket.

    The revised "SoCal" special started in 2001. At first it was a 2 day NON park hopping ticket for a few dollars more than a single day price, they tried different pricing points anywhere from $10-$25 more. Also, in 2001 and early 2002, you could use both days at Disneyland, and were not required to attend DCA at all.

    In the fall of 2002, they had the 2-day ticket for $54 ($9 more than a single day ticket), but this time it was one day at Disneyland, and one day at DCA. Well, the ticket sellers at the main gate would explain the offer when asked if there were any SoCal specials (and they have signs at the ticket windows saying to ask about the SoCal specials), but many folks decided to just get a single day ticket to DL, and not bother to pay the extra $9. The folks at TDA were not happy with the numbers, even though Flik's Fun Fair had just opened.

    Well, in early 2003, the "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for free" ticket was announced, now just $47, the same price as a one-day ticket. This offer started in early January, and expired in mid-May.... well, now when the guests went to the ticket window, and asked about the special, they were told for NO extra charge they could get a 2-day ticket (some asked for just a discounted DL only ticket, but were told those tickets are not discounted), so folks ended up with a 2-day whether they wanted it or not. Well, these folks went to Disneyland for the day... and then put the ticket on the fridge, or somewhere else... and then folks realized that the ticket to DCA was about to expire..... so many folks in fact that Disney had to extend DCA hours, staffing , and offer extra showings of shows for the last three weekends of the deal(No such additions were added to Disneyland). This really drove up DCA's numbers in May.

    Since then, Disney has marketed the ticket as "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for FREE!" in 2004, adjusted the program to maximum 30 days to return to eliminate the rush to DCA at the last weekend the ticket was valid, but still had the problem in 2006, so once again revised the program, and now only the first day of use has to be at the end of the period, and can be used for a maximum of 30 days no matter what.

    Here is a photo of the early 2007 tickets, which clearly state "Purchase a Disneyland Park ticket for one day and visit Disney's California Adventure Park on another day for FREE!"

    http://darkbeer.smugmug.com/gallery/...22919197/Large

    The same ticket showed up on August 1st, right in the middle of summer peak, this time good to late November, but now with a 30 day fuse, to prevent the problems they had in May by not having all the tickets expire at the same time. They also offered the ticket in early December as an AP holder special (for AP guests). So basically for 3/4th's of the year the SoCal ticket was offered.

    I checked eBay in early 2007 and found that many SoCal's that ended up getting the 2fer opted to sell the DCA portion on eBay for $10 to $20 instead of visiting the park for themselves...

    http://www.micechat.com/forums/much_...ight=2fer+ebay

    It is clear that the SoCal promo was popular and helped drive significant attendance to DCA that would not have gone if they didn't get the second day to DCA for "free".
    Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

  2. #92

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    Re: Amazing NY Times article from February 11th, 2001 and Paradise Pier

    This is so ridiculous. Like, any business, companies will lower prices on their products to encourage more to come. Something you park haters don't seem to understand, judging by your biased and uneducated posts is that businesses will always lower ticket prices to sell more of that product.

  3. #93

    • Darkbeer
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    Re: Amazing NY Times article from February 11th, 2001 and Paradise Pier

    Here is an article by David Koenig from June of 2002...

    http://www.mouseplanet.com/articles.php?art=mt020612dk


    What changed everything was the general public's chilly reception last year to Disney's California Adventure.

    Disney was so sure the new park would draw in full-fare-paying guests that it suspended sales of annual passes to both parks. By the end of the year, Disney realized that the once-shunned class of APs might be their only way to get warm bodies inside the new park on a daily basis. Annual pass prices were slashed and Disneyland-only annual passes eliminated. The number of annual passholders skyrocketed higher into the hundreds of thousands.

    APs are now seen as crucial to guaranteeing a base number of guests throughout the resort, throughout the year. First, management would have to change its own attitude toward APs. Several months ago, the resort created a new position, Manager of Annual Passholder Programs. His job is to coordinate various perks and bonuses for the AP demographic, and spearhead new AP initiatives.
    Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

  4. #94

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    Re: Amazing NY Times article from February 11th, 2001 and Paradise Pier

    Quote Originally Posted by 2DieFR View Post
    WDW truly keeps guests on Disney property for five days, seven days, maybe more, what with four theme parks, three water parks, and you know the rest - whereas here at the Disneyland "Resort," most guests (not AP's) probably stay for two days, maybe three. There are discounts on subsequent park admission past three days to encourage Disney hotel guests to stay longer, but if they've already "seen it all" at DCA within six hours, is there much adhesive behind the "Resort" title, as it stands now?
    I would have considered WDW a resort back when it was just one park and some hotels. Or better yet two parks and some hotels. So yeah, the resort title sticks to DLR.

    WDW is an amazing resort but it does not define what any other resort has to be. There are four other Disney destinations that back this up, with one of them - Tokyo Disney Resort - actually superior to WDW, IMO.

    So, according to you, people stay at WDW a week and at DL three days? Ok, so that means people stay at one resort longer because it has more to offer than the other resort. They're both still resorts.

    As for Knott's Resort? I can't help but laugh when I read that. Almost as much as that "first theme park" nonsense.
    Last edited by Grizzly; 09-20-2007 at 07:16 PM.

  5. #95

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    Re: Amazing NY Times article from February 11th, 2001 and Paradise Pier

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer View Post
    OK, the history of the "2fer" Southern California Disneyland Resort ticket.

    The revised "SoCal" special started in 2001. At first it was a 2 day NON park hopping ticket for a few dollars more than a single day price, they tried different pricing points anywhere from $10-$25 more. Also, in 2001 and early 2002, you could use both days at Disneyland, and were not required to attend DCA at all.

    In the fall of 2002, they had the 2-day ticket for $54 ($9 more than a single day ticket), but this time it was one day at Disneyland, and one day at DCA. Well, the ticket sellers at the main gate would explain the offer when asked if there were any SoCal specials (and they have signs at the ticket windows saying to ask about the SoCal specials), but many folks decided to just get a single day ticket to DL, and not bother to pay the extra $9. The folks at TDA were not happy with the numbers, even though Flik's Fun Fair had just opened.

    Well, in early 2003, the "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for free" ticket was announced, now just $47, the same price as a one-day ticket. This offer started in early January, and expired in mid-May.... well, now when the guests went to the ticket window, and asked about the special, they were told for NO extra charge they could get a 2-day ticket (some asked for just a discounted DL only ticket, but were told those tickets are not discounted), so folks ended up with a 2-day whether they wanted it or not. Well, these folks went to Disneyland for the day... and then put the ticket on the fridge, or somewhere else... and then folks realized that the ticket to DCA was about to expire..... so many folks in fact that Disney had to extend DCA hours, staffing , and offer extra showings of shows for the last three weekends of the deal(No such additions were added to Disneyland). This really drove up DCA's numbers in May.

    Since then, Disney has marketed the ticket as "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for FREE!" in 2004, adjusted the program to maximum 30 days to return to eliminate the rush to DCA at the last weekend the ticket was valid, but still had the problem in 2006, so once again revised the program, and now only the first day of use has to be at the end of the period, and can be used for a maximum of 30 days no matter what.

    Here is a photo of the early 2007 tickets, which clearly state "Purchase a Disneyland Park ticket for one day and visit Disney's California Adventure Park on another day for FREE!"

    http://darkbeer.smugmug.com/gallery/...22919197/Large

    The same ticket showed up on August 1st, right in the middle of summer peak, this time good to late November, but now with a 30 day fuse, to prevent the problems they had in May by not having all the tickets expire at the same time. They also offered the ticket in early December as an AP holder special (for AP guests). So basically for 3/4th's of the year the SoCal ticket was offered.

    I checked eBay in early 2007 and found that many SoCal's that ended up getting the 2fer opted to sell the DCA portion on eBay for $10 to $20 instead of visiting the park for themselves...

    http://www.micechat.com/forums/much_...ight=2fer+ebay

    It is clear that the SoCal promo was popular and helped drive significant attendance to DCA that would not have gone if they didn't get the second day to DCA for "free".
    Thanks for posting this Darkbeer. It was much needed in this thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by WSVR View Post
    That's right. People are going to DCA when Disneyland is mere steps away because DCA doesn't satisfy them. Yup Yip Yep. Sure buddy. Whatever you say.
    No, people are going to DCA because it's basically free. People don't go to Costco and get the free samples because they satisfy their hunger - they go to shop (go to Disneyland) and eat the free samples (DCA) because they're FREE.

    Quote Originally Posted by WSVR View Post
    That's odd. Mine have nothing on them that says I have to use any portion at DCA. Did you get those imaginary free tickets that say no going to Disneyland allowed on them again? Yup. These imaginary free tickets that say you must go to DCA on them rear their ugly heads again.
    What are you even saying? I never said anything about being forced to go to DCA.

    Quote Originally Posted by WSVR View Post
    Yeah. That's 99% of DLR's attendance. CM passes. Yup.
    Right, since I said that. Please.

    Quote Originally Posted by WSVR View Post
    Wow. you have such rotten luck. First those imaginary free tickets, and now, you got that imaginary AP that says you must go to DCA on it. What are the odds? Why I bet they are a Kazillion to one.
    Again, where did I say anybody was being forced to go to DCA? You're putting words in my mouth to justify your empty argument. I was saying that the only reason DCA has its 7th place title is because people get to go to it for free. Are you going to turn down something for free? Most people wont, especially when the normal price is $63.

    Quote Originally Posted by WSVR View Post
    What percentage of Annual passes require one to go to DCA?
    THAT'S RIGHT ZERO!!!!!
    What percentage of multi-day park hoppers require one to go to DCA?
    THAT'S RIGHT ZERO!!!!

    Just where is this imaginary free ticket that forces people to go to DCA against their will? No where in reality. It's nothing but a product of mental masturbation. The simple FACT of the matter as opposed to that mental masturbation is that you have absolutely no clue as to on average, what percentage of the value of that ticket, DCA contributed.
    The simple FACT of the matter that you conveniently ignore is that if people didn't want to go over to DCA and weren't satisfied in their decision, they'd simply use those free days or their AP for more Disneyland time and not go to DCA.

    No No No. 7th in the nation is a complete failure. And it's only 7th because people are forced over there by imaginary free tickets good only for DCA.
    All your talk about these "imaginary tickets" that you claim I spoke of totally makes your arguments invalid. I never spoke of an imaginary ticket. I never spoke of a ticket the forced people to go to DCA.

    I spoke of the ParkHoppers, 2fers, and APs that give people DCA for free or almost free. Please learn how to read.

    Quote Originally Posted by WSVR View Post
    Failing to reach a goal does not mean a park is a total failure. Nor does it mean the park is struggling to satisfy customers. They expected DCA to be able to something it can't. And there is an argument to be made that it can't even with the 1.2 billion. But you equating that to mean DCA isn't satisfying anyone does not follow.

    Of course you would. Because you have nothing but imaginary free tickets that force people to go to DCA to counter it. And I've proven that one complete and utter B.S.
    All that shows is that it is 7th and they want something higher than 7th. . It does not follow as you put it, that DCA is struggling to satisfy customers or that it is a complete failure.
    I didn't say that DCA doesn't satisfy every single person. But it certainly doesn't satisfy the general public on the level that Disneyland does. And to say it does is completely ludicrous. Otherwise DCA wouldn't have been called a "challenge" by the CEO of the Walt Disney Company and the park wouldn't be getting a $1.2 billion budger to get fixed.

    You said "They expected DCA to be able to [do] something it can't" - well, when something fails to meet expectations, that, by definition, is a failure. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines failure as the following:
    a: omission of occurrence or performance; specifically : a failing to perform a duty or expected action <failure to pay the rent on time>

    DCA failed to perform its expected action of having a certain amount of visitors and revenue. It wasn't able to do it. Therefore, it is a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by WSVR View Post
    More of your logic.

    Ummm. My points Strong... Your points weak......

    LMAO!!!! OK Pal. Whatever you say. I'll sell your imaginary AP good only for DCA on ebay for you seeing as how you don't want it.
    Cute. I ask you a question regarding a false claim that you posed, and you reply by making another jab at me. That's good ethical debating right there.
    I don't even know why I'm replying to you anymore.

    Go read Darkbeer's posts and then tell me that they don't give DCA away for free. Darkbeer provides photographic evidence that shows that they do this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mathius View Post
    This is so ridiculous. Like, any business, companies will lower prices on their products to encourage more to come. Something you park haters don't seem to understand, judging by your biased and uneducated posts is that businesses will always lower ticket prices to sell more of that product.
    You're right. Promotions are typical to increase consumer spending. However, there is a difference between lowering prices for a product, and completely giving it away for free.
    Last edited by MasterGracey; 09-20-2007 at 07:39 PM.

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  6. #96

    • Darkbeer
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    Re: Amazing NY Times article from February 11th, 2001 and Paradise Pier

    I found the news that came out on November 19th, 2001.... (Much of which was written by Al Lutz.)

    http://www.mouseplanet.com/archive/update37.htm


    Giving Away DCA

    In case you missed our news update yesterday:
    Disneyland Resort radically reduces two park Annual Pass pricing

    Reacting to continuing attendance problems at the California Adventure park, the Disneyland Resort has dramatically reduced prices of and restructured their Annual Passport (AP) ticket program. Pricing for both parks is now at past single park levels, with the premium $299 dual park passport level discontinued.

    What this means is that the $199 Premium level annual pass now allows admission into both parks (the same as the previous Disneyland only price) with no blackout days, which is a $100 reduction from the past price. (If you have paid $299 after August 1st of this year, you will get four months added on to your pass to reflect the new pricing levels.) Current Disneyland only $199 premium passholders will be upgraded for free for the remainder of their passes, but need to have a new card issued to them at the park.

    Current single park lower level Disneyland only passholders may upgrade their passes to gain admission to both parks for $10. The new prices are $149 for Deluxe level (some blackout days) and $99 for Southern California (more blackout days).

    All future Annual Passes will be only for both parks - basically giving the customer admission into California Adventure for a $10 increase over the past single park Disneyland only price.Upcoming incentives for passholders also include a free dessert with $20 food purchase, and a free pin offered starting December 5th.
    They had planned California Adventure (DCA) to be packed all of last year. Pricing was set at the same levels as Disneyland, and they only provided a quarter of the attractions - many of those just movies.

    With this new AP price point, and the current resident $6 one day ticket upgrade which allows two days at any single park, (or the ability to park hop on the same day) this is about the clearest signal yet that this new park has failed in everything it was supposed to do.

    The constant misfires - particularly in entertainment offerings such as the Steps in Time and LuminAria shows only served to create more bad word of mouth this year. Last minute "fixes" such as the return of the Electric Parade, and giving away kids tickets served to fuel media attention on how bad the park was doing, as will this latest discount.

    For people eligible for the discount, I do think they have finally valued this new park at what it is worth to a visitor expecting Disneyland quality, which it does not deliver. For out of town visitors who purchase a multiple day ticket that allows park hopping, the value is there also now for them.

    Treating DCA as an addition to your Disneyland day, at either same or just a little bit extra admission ($6 in this case) deals well with the value issue which has dogged this park since before it was built. (Mind you, the park is still a mess, but the price is now in sync with what a visitor gets.)
    Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

  7. #97

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    Re: Amazing NY Times article from February 11th, 2001 and Paradise Pier

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer View Post
    I found the news that came out on November 19th, 2001.... (Much of which was written by Al Lutz.)

    http://www.mouseplanet.com/archive/update37.htm
    Thanks for that. Of course people will say that Al is biased and hates the park so his commentary is invalid - but what's great about this article is that it give facts on pricing - and shows that APs get DCA for free and ParkHopper tickets give DCA away for just a few bucks.

    Sure, prices have risen since that article, but they've risen by adding onto the $199 2-park AP price, not the $299 2-park AP price. Therefore, to this day, DCA is still being given away for free or almost-free.

    Another great contribution, Darkbeer.

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