Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

[TP2000]

TP2000 has revealed to us that, shock of shock, there are actually economic cycles and ups and downs in b business.

Apparently he thinks that jurisdictional decisions should be made based upon those rather than principles.

I'm just laying out my opinion that SunCal was three years too late to the housing party. And they don't have pockets deep enough to stay in the game as long as Disney does. SunCal, just like all the other developers, has much bigger problems to worry about for 2008 and beyond.

As for my opinion on zoning matters; I think the Resort District should remain as it was zoned by Anaheim politicians 15 years ago. The Resort District should remain zoned for hospitality purposes. Anyone who knows me or has ever read any of my posts knows that I am no fan of DCA. But I am a believer in the long term viability of the Disneyland Resort. The Anaheim Resort District should remain focused on the long term potential of Disneyland Resort, just as it was when it was created 15 years ago. If SunCal really wants to build 1,500 condo units next to the freeway, there are lots of other plots of land along I-5 from Downey to San Clemente that they could go after.

Oh, wait.... SunCal is too late. The housing market for freeway-adjacent $600,000 condo units next to gangland apartments and a liquor store dried up about six months ago.

In the immortal words of Emily Latilla on Saturday Night Live..... Nevermind.

[Baloo]

Disney made all kinds of economic promises associated with the DCA project that would compensate for the public investment and then they didn't invest the money and effort required to fulfill those promises.

So it appears that there is a lack of fulfillment on multiple sides.

The way I see it is that Disney is trying to maximize profit with minimal costs for the benefit of their shareholders and the city is fulfilling obligations to their citizens by not giving away money and rights to a self-serving (not evil) corporation without city participation and compensation.

maybe you should read the whole proposal, Disney has kept its promise.
If you are judging everything on DCA alone than you are mistaken. DCA was just one part of the resorts growth.

They even backed it up by adding to the promise that if bonds payments were not covered by hotel taxes that they would pick up the bill.

Galloway is just beign pushy and the oher to morns that call themselves city council members that are supposedly are doing this for the people are just her puppets

[Baloo]

That's a bit of demagoguing.

Those city council members are elected representatives of the citizenry. it's only your apparent disagreement with them that indicates that they "care less".

As to what the people of Anaheim want, well that's what the ballot measure will be to decide.

All you have to do is look at the proposal from Suncal to see what is going on. Nothing is even final in design yet the city council are happy enough to jump in bed with them. The city has been paying for much of the contractors paperwork. (all from city money) New elections have been added (all money coming from the city) by rezoning the property the only one that will eventually win is Suncal.

There is property outside the resort area but Suncal is aware that by targeting this piece of property as soon as it is rezoned they will automatically gain millions withotu even building anything. If the city council really wanted to listen to the people then why would they ignore every step in letting the people rally signatures to see if they want this ballot to go thru?

They know very well that by adding this ballot all it will do is confuse people come election time. This is just a retaliation against SOAR.


Maybe Galloway should remember that Disney actually donated millions a few years back to build low income housing. Fynny how non of it was used for that and those same city council members decided that the money could eb better used for other things. Why the change of heart? Funny how six years ago when they had millions of Disney's money for houses, the money was not used for that.

[JeffYardDog]

I'm just laying out my opinion that SunCal was three years too late to the housing party. And they don't have pockets deep enough to stay in the game as long as Disney does. SunCal, just like all the other developers, have much bigger problems to worry about for 2008 and beyond.

As for my opinion on zoning matters; I think the Resort District should remain as it was zoned by Anaheim politicians 15 years ago. The Resort District should remain zoned for hospitality purposes. Anyone who knows me or has ever read any of my posts knows that I am no fan of DCA. But I am a believer in the long term viability of the Disneyland Resort. The Resort District should remain focused on the long term viability of Disneyland Resort, just as it was when it was created 15 years ago. If SunCal really wants to build 1,500 condo units next to the freeway, there are lots of other plots of land along I-5 from Downey to San Clemente that they could go after.

Oh, wait.... SunCal is too late. The housing market for freeway-adjacent $600,000 condo units next to gangland apartments and a liquor store dried up about six months ago.

In the immortal words of Emily Latilla on Saturday Night Live..... Nevermind.

Couldn't care less about Suncal. They're big boys, one presumes, and will have to deal with their economic decisions and circumstances.

It's about who runs the city and has jurisdiction over it and whether both sides will keep their commitments and promises to the city's benefit. If Disney can't or won't keep theirs then they can't expect that the city owes them a one-sided benefit.

[TP2000]

It's about who runs the city and has jurisdiction over it and whether both sides will keep their commitments and promises to the city's benefit. If Disney can't or won't keep theirs then they can't expect that the city owes them a one-sided benefit.

I've lambasted Anaheim repeatedly in the past for letting the Resort District stagnate and only be known for new landscaping and a Mimi's Cafe, while Garden Grove stole a dozen major new upscale hotels and restaurants out from under Anaheim's nose. Shame on Anaheim! That IHOP on Harbor isn't cutting it when it comes to "world class resort".

But that only speaks to the inept nature of most of the Anaheim City Council. Ms. Galloway is the worst offender, with a mindless persona and thought process that makes me think her last visit with her Botox man had the needle go right through her crows feet and directly into her brain.

From 2005 onward Ms. Galloway helped approve 9,000 housing units three blocks east of the SunCal property without one single unit identified as affordable housing. Now she suddenly seems to feel she has the authority to rewrite the Resort District zoning laws and allow SunCal to build 1,500 units on Haster, with a tiny slice of those identified as "affordable". And then she has the gall to use innocent people making 12 bucks an hour as a busboy at the Disneyland Hotel in her "fight" to gain them affordable housing. That busboy won't be able to afford a parking space in SunCal's development, let alone the subsidized one bedroom unit that goes for $400,000 instead of $550,000. Shame on Ms. Galloway for playing politics like that! And shame on SunCal for pretending it was in the business of subsidized luxury housing for hotel busboys.

But then the whole SunCal issue is becoming moot. The condo market evaporated this summer, and now SunCal has to figure out a way to slink back to Irvine and try to get everyone to just forget about their Anaheim proposal and the mess they made.

[goofygoof]

Great points by all, I wonder if the Disney Lobbyists are reading this and can catch some of these concrete points pro-Disney

[Druggas]

The City of Anaheim was there before Disneyland.

If it wasn't for Disneyland, Orange County wouldn't be as crowded and expensive as it is now.

No, because of LA County, Orange County is crowded.

[techskip]

FOR SALE: 1,100 square foot condo. 2 bedrooms. Sunny dining nook. Granite countertops & stainless appliances. Partial view of Matterhorn. Highspeed Internet For Message Board Surfing. Free Sunday Shuttle Service to Disneyland. Stroll to Liquor Store and Freeway Onramp. $675,000

Hmm.... while I've never heard of a condo developer trying to sell 1,500 units to Disneyland Annual Passholders, perhaps it's an untapped market that could even survive the current housing moonscape.

However, considering the derision and scorn that SunCal executives and spokesmen have thrown at the evil "Disney Corporation", it might be hard for them to market that effectively.

At what point did I say sell to the AP market ?... trying to figure that out... I said cater to the Disney Fanatics, which is what EVERYTHING in the resort district already does. In fact Disney itself is now developing timeshares specifically for the resort area, condos are yet another LOGICAL step. Likewise with the current trend toward upscale dining and shopping the current blight will continue to be redeveloped... you have already pointed out how Harbor went from seedy to trendy, why shouldn't that continue? I do not think SunCal will stay in the game but I do see other developers eventually trying to move in and capitalize on this resort market. Disneyland itself continues to cater to those with the larger pocket books, timeshares and condos are a logical step.

[TP2000]

If Disneyland had never been built, central Anaheim would look alot like its next door neighbor Stanton. Except perhaps without as many strip clubs.

[TP2000]

At what point did I say sell to the AP market ?... trying to figure that out... I said cater to the Disney Fanatics, which is what EVERYTHING in the resort district already does. In fact Disney itself is now developing timeshares specifically for the resort area, condos are yet another LOGICAL step.

Wait, so you are proposing that the people who will buy a large chunk of the 1,500 SunCal condos would only be part-time residents? People so enamored with Disneyland that they would buy a second home near the Resort, and only live there part-time during the year when they were in town to visit Disneyland?

That's a niche for expensive condominiums I never knew existed.

[Retrocool]

The piece of land SunCal owns is nowhere near attractive. It's next to 14 lanes of busy Santa Ana Freeway. It's wedged alongside cheap 1970's apartment complexes that have multiple families living in one unit and are home to some of the worst gang problems in Anaheim. There is no surrounding infrastructure to support middle and upper-middle income residents; all of the shopping options nearby are seedy liquor stores or greasy tacquerias.

Gee, sounds like you'd prefer Anaheim to be for wealthy white people only. I wonder what people you're referring to in the above post?

"Greasy tacquerias"? I'll guess as to what sort of people go to "greasy tacquerias." Perhaps they are people who don't speak English, who come from certain nations to the south, and who are also greasy, in your view. Maybe not just greasy, but dirty, too.

[techskip]

Wait, so you are proposing that the people who will buy a large chunk of the 1,500 SunCal condos would only be part-time residents? People so enamored with Disneyland that they would buy a second home near the Resort, and only live there part-time during the year when they were in town to visit Disneyland?

That's a niche for expensive condominiums I never knew existed.

They call them timeshares, and why would this be limited specifically to CA residents? Aspen Colorado does something similar, as does Florida, and many other vacation spots. There is also this weird concept known as investment properties. Prices will only go up especially around the Disneyland resort. Currently all you really have is hotels, luxury condos will eventually come into play be it Disney building them or someone else. My point is that someone will capitalize on this.

[TP2000]

Gee, sounds like you'd prefer Anaheim to be for wealthy white people only. I wonder what people you're referring to in the above post?

"Greasy tacquerias"? I'll guess as to what sort of people go to "greasy tacquerias." Perhaps they are people who don't speak English, who come from certain nations to the south, and who are also greasy, in your view. Maybe not just greasy, but dirty, too.

You obviously don't have the Micechat option that shows you what I look like. But why not just judge me by my ideas and thoughts, rather than the color of my skin?

Drive down Chapman from Haster after dark. It's the type of neighborhood where anyone would lock their doors, regardless of how much melanin is in their skin or what language their surname is. And it's definitely not the type of place an owner of a $600,000 condo would willingly put themselves.

[TP2000]

Prices will only go up especially around the Disneyland resort. Currently all you really have is hotels, luxury condos will eventually come into play be it Disney building them or someone else. My point is that someone will capitalize on this.

Well.... maybe. But there are a few other major developers that don't have that sunny outlook on Anaheim. See my posts in this thread regarding the recent actions of Lennar on their property three blocks east of the SunCal property.

The major national condo developers are all pulling out of Anaheim. The outlook is just too bleak for them to see the sunrise.

[goofygoof]

No, because of LA County, Orange County is crowded.

Can't wait to get out of LA County and move to the OC! woot woot!