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  1. #46

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by TP2000 View Post
    You obviously don't have the Micechat option that shows you what I look like. But why not just judge me by my ideas and thoughts, rather than the color of my skin?
    I'm not judging you by the color of your skin since obviously I don't know what you look like, I'm telling you what your comments sound like, and your personal skin color doesn't even matter where that's concerned. If you want to consider that judgment by your ideas and thoughts, that's fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by TP2000 View Post
    Drive down Chapman from Haster after dark. It's the type of neighborhood where anyone would lock their doors, regardless of how much melanin is in their skin or what language their surname is. And it's definitely not the type of place an owner of a $600,000 condo would willingly put themselves.
    Anyone anywhere who's intelligent locks their doors, because crime can happen anywhere.

    Anaheim's never been the place for a world-class resort, either. If Disney wanted to turn Anaheim into a highfalutin' resort for the rich, they should have done it before Walt died. That didn't happen, because Disneyland wasn't designed for rich people, it was designed for everyone, including the very people you're disparaging.

    If Disney is interested in catering to the wealthy, they might want to invest in some properties down in Newport Beach, Balboa, or other parts of South Orange County. Anaheim and other parts of North and Central Orange County have been blue collar since before Disney showed up. Trying to change the dynamic of North Orange County isn't something that's going to happen overnight, nor is it going to happen without a fight.

    By the way, anyone who spends $600,000 on a condominium is a complete fool.

  2. #47

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    what i believe disneyland needs to do is...

    take all its land and create its own city. get a couple housing areas around it to agree.

    And make a Disneyland, CA.
    Peace. Love. Unity. Respect. Responsibility.

  3. #48

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Retrocool View Post
    By the way, anyone who spends $600,000 on a condominium is a complete fool.
    I agree, but tell that to SunCal. 10 months ago they thought they could line up about 1,500 of those fools.

    Also tell that to Ms. Galloway and the Anaheim City Council that fast-tracked the Platinum Triangle through the planning process without an ounce of resistance. They thought they could line up 5,000+ of those fools to pay those prices.

    And for the record, the tacqueria on the corner of Chapman and Haster is actually greasy.

  4. #49

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    this is what to do if anaheim goes ahead with the hell no decision to allow disney to build a third theme park: make the anaheim city council members pay three times the going rates to visit the parks and stay at the hotels

  5. #50

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Retrocool View Post
    By the way, anyone who spends $600,000 on a condominium is a complete fool.
    Well put. However that same fool is likely the individual who opts to rent out a suit for the week at several thousand dollars, and then patrons the higher clientèle restaurants, buys expensive souvenirs, and overall spends large amounts of money that help to keep the resort afloat. He or She is not likely to complain about, or even notice, the latest price increase to; admission, souvenirs, or menu that generally becomes the #1 complaint on MC. In short to develop a condo for this type of "Guest" would be to the resort, and the area's best interest. GardenWalk is already shaping up to be the upscale location that Anaheim, and these individuals, have been asking for.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  6. #51

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    techskip, you just outlined the demographic of someone who would spend $30,000 to buy into an entry-level DVC membership, with an opportunity to spend tens of thousands of dollars more over the course of the 40 year DVC agreement.

    Disney already has that timeshare market cornered, and they are currently building 50 units for those folks at the Grand Californian.

    I admire your optimism in regards to Disneyland customer demographics, but I very seriously doubt there are more than one dozen out-of-town "Disney Fanatics" that would buy a SunCal condo to stay in part-time when they visit Disneyland. If those folks do exist in numbers greater than one dozen, there are plenty of homes and condo's available for sale around Disneyland already.

    Harbor Lofts, just a few blocks north of Disneyland, is already having a tough time selling their units that just became available. But if those Disney Fanatics out there want a second home near Disneyland, here it is!... http://www.harborlofts.com/

  7. #52

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    So SunCal and the council members are just going to end up making fools of themselves?

  8. #53

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
    It was Disney that cleaned up Harbor Blvd.
    The City of Anaheim cleaned up Harbor Blvd. Anaheim spent more money cleaning up the resort District than Disney spend on DCA.


    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    You have to remember that Disney is not the one that is trying to pull out of a contract that the city and they approved years back. The area put aside should be kept for resort development only.
    It's not a contract. The resort boundaries were created in the Resort Master Plan which allows itself to be rewritten at the discretion of the City Council.

    Obviously nothing that is happening is illegal.

    Disney is trying to make sure that happens for the wellfair of the city.
    Disney is serving their interests. The City is serving their interests. It just so happens at this time that their interests conflict with each other.

    Disney is not trying to stop Suncal from building. They just want them to follow the guidelines. There is more at stake here than just those 26 acres that Suncal wants to use for housing. If that areas zobe is changed there are three more contractors that already said that if Suncal gets a zonign change then they should also get the rights to change zoning on other property they want to develop around the parks for more housing.
    And ALL of it should be reconsidered.

    A housing development built NOW is going to bring in more revenue than a hotel built 20 or 30 or 50 years from now.

    There's absolutely no point in keeping that land zoned for the resort, if the resort is not going to be using it for another generation or two.

    Quote Originally Posted by TP2000 View Post
    That's just it. There will be no SunCal housing, even if Disney suddenly changed its tune and held a big Welcome To The Resort District SunCal! rally on Harbor Blvd.
    With the housing market collapsing, I'd pretty much say you're right on that TP.

    The real question is though, are they ever going to find someone who would want to build a hotel there?

  9. #54

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    OK, Why haven't I seen this thread earlier. I have read the "proposed" AVE (aka Anaheim Voter Empowerment Initiative) and there is a very sneaky "loophole" in it...

    http://www.anaheim.net/docs_agend/qu.../DO18580/1.PDF

    Section 13 (Page 19) says that if this measure gets more votes than an "competing initiative" on the same ballot, even though BOTH get more than 50%, the other initiative is declared VOID. But on the other hand, if the "competing initiative" gets over 50% and has more votes than "AVE", AVE is still valid, though the other initiative wording has priority.

    So far, we have had one Referendum passed, that is to overturn the specific "Mobile Home" property land that was rezoned by the City Council. If the referendum passes, then the SunCal project is dead for at least a year. The council placed the measure on the June 8th, 2008 ballot.

    Then SOAR (Save Our Anaheim Resort, basically Disney and the other businesses in the Resort Area) submitted over 31,000 signatures for an Initiative that requires voters to approve any change in zoning in the Anaheim Resort Area that is not a current approved use (Commercial and Tourism uses). It is expected to be approved and also placed on the June 8th, 2008 ballot.

    SOAR (basically mostly Disney money) spent a lot of time and effort to get these 2 measures on the ballot.

    Now SunCal wants to add this third measure on the same ballot (June 8th) as a way to confuse voters, and hopefully sneak in the "back door" by getting more folks to vote for AVE than the SOAR "resort zone" initiative. IMHO, if the council places this measure on the ballot without requiring CDPA (Committee to Protect and Defend Anaheim, basically the SunCal funded group) to get signatures, it is giving a "in-kind" political donation to SunCal as they will save Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars in costs to get the needed signatures. It also will be timed to place the AVE initiative on the same ballot (June 8th) which will allow the "competing initiative" clause to come into play. If SunCal/CDPA had to get signatures, there is a decent chance they couldn't get enough signatures, or not get them in time to be placed on the June 8th ballot.

    I also watched the September 25th Anaheim City Council Meeting.

    Plain and Simple, I agree with the Mayor, this action is just a "Punitive, Retaliatory Move".

    Under the current rules, The "Strawberry Field" is zoned for parking and farming. If Disney wants to build another park and/or hotel here, they would have to present a project and have the zoning commission approve the project. (And FYI, the zoning commission did NOT approve the SunCal project, it had to be appealed to the City Council to get approval). There are already plenty of checks and balances, and AVE is just plain STUPID!

    As for the SunCal project, they asked the City Council to overturn the decision, then Disney, with help from SOAR, asked the voters to place a measure on the ballot to overturn the city council's decision. All in line with the way our system of government works.

    But we shall see what happens, a LOT of money will be spent by both sides (maybe not so much by SunCal due to the change in the Housing situation), but SunCal really doesn't build, they do the "dirty" work and get the zoning and other governmental issues settled, then sell off the rights to a builder. But if you can take a 22 acre piece of land (actually more than that, but 22 acres is about the available building space) from around $2 Million an acre for commercial and then sell it at $5 million due to the fact it is residential, that is a BIG profit!

    But I think when all is said and done, SOAR/Disney will get the votes to pass its measures, and the AVE/SunCal measure will get LESS votes, so it won't matter, except for all the mud slinging that will happen before the election from both sides.

    Then the pro-SunCal council members will have a very tough fight for re-election, as SOAR finds candidates that will run against folks like Ms. Galloway and will support them in the next election. And SunCal will be long gone and not help her in any significant way.
    Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

  10. #55

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    Thanks for clearing that up Darkbeer. I know people have come down on both sides on this issue, but from where I'm sitting, Suncal needs to leave town. If you look at the whole resort section of town compared to what it looked like 20 years ago, it's barely recognizeable. Perhaps the Anaheim City Council PREFERED the sloppy 7/11 gift stores and sleezy looking motels up and down Harbor and Katella. Bah. How much money did Disney kick in for the Freeway upgrade? The landscaping around town? Maybe I'm in the dark here, but I doubt Suncal has paid a freaking dime toward building up the city of Anaheim and has done squat to bring in TONS of tax revenue via thousands of additional visitors each year in conjunction with the Convention Center. Who elected these city council idiots anyway?

  11. #56

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    Organizing and planning these projects takes years. The window has closed on the "low cost" housing. If those units are built now, they would sit and languish for lack of funding available to their intended buyers.

    What happens if wealthy folks swoop in and buy up the places to be used as 2nd vacation homes or places to stay while they and their families are visiting the resort ? An interesting question.

    That will tend to bleed off some of the demand for Disney Hotels and support the businesses of the developers.

    Would you buy one of these units to use as a flop house while you are visiting the park ?

  12. #57

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

  13. #58

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by localdisnyfan View Post
    Who elected these city council idiots anyway?
    Wild guess, but I think it was the voting citizens of Anaheim. You know, people who actually live in Anaheim? Perhaps you've heard of them.

  14. #59

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer View Post
    Then the pro-SunCal council members will have a very tough fight for re-election, as SOAR finds candidates that will run against folks like Ms. Galloway
    And how does that make you feel? That Disney is willing to spend millions of dollars to keep a piece of land zoned for a hotel that may or may not be built in the near future.

    I'd assume that most fans would want that money going back into the park itself.

    I'd also assume that most fans would have no interest in staying at a 3rd party hotel about 2 miles from the park and overlooking the freeway.

    So why all the interest in this?

  15. #60

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    Re: Anaheim now trying to block a 3rd Theme Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Retrocool View Post
    Right, and the Disney Corporation does?

    Perhaps Disney could threaten to move Disneyland to some other city if Anaheim doesn't agree to its corporate interests.
    Last time they tried that angle, they were threatening Anaheim with a Port Disney project in Long Beach.

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