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  1. #16

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    By all honest accounts, Disney’s California Adventure is nothing more than a cheap strip mall knock-off of everything the theme park innovator invented back in 1955.....
    Now that's a slam against DCA - but I think it's a fairly undeserved one. I think it's easy to tell that DCA is a lot more than just a strip mall. I've never seen a strip mall with rides.

    I think though that this deserves a discussion of its own. The idea that many Disney fans have such an all out hatred of what DCA is, that they go to great lengths to knock the place down and present it as less than it actually is.

    It's one thing to say you didn't like DCA because of the lack of details, the plain stucco walls, the burned out light bulbs - it's one thing to equate it with the strip mall on the corner.

  2. #17

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    I think people not only felt as if they received poor value for their money when they entered D.C.A. They were also insulted by the place, and they were offended by the spirit behind D.C.A.'s creation.

    Can you blame them?

  3. #18

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    And with Disneyland ALWAYS opening up earlier than DCA when you hop to DCA your attendance doesn't count for DCA on that day.
    6 million or 15 million DCA visitors, they still didn't pay full price for DCA.
    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    If your talking about AP's, well, as much as alot of people with AP's go to DL, they are paying next to nothing for DL as well.
    $170 for a SoCal AP, $230 if you want parking (in most cases at least one person in a group of APers is going to have parking), is not next to nothing.

    Do people forget that there are blockout days and that you can't go on Saturdays, in the Summer and on Holidays? Are you afraid that people are visiting so much that they are getting in for, oh my God, 6 cents per visit and hurting poor Disney's bottom line? Most people aren't power users and even then, those power users are going to merchandise events, picking up the limited edition pins, eating at Rancho Del Zocolo every Sunday, buying Disney books and magazines, attending Disney's yard sales, er, I mean "auctions", whatever their heart desires. They probably have a premium pass too.

    Disney also uses the parks to advertise their own DVDs, upcoming movies, and video games. Attraction sponsors pick up a part of the bill too. The more people in the park the more people see the sponsorships and the more they can charge for them. Disney doesn't pay for the fireworks, Honda does.

    The average person with an AP just doesn't go to Disneyland as much as you think. They go enough to let it "pay for itself" so that it's cheaper than buying a 1-day pass every time they visit. Yeah, they are paying less per visit compared to paying $91 every time, but if they had to pay $91 every time they would only go once or twice a year and Disney would make less money in the long run. $91 versus $270. Sure, they go more often when they pay $270, but when there's already 15-20 thousand people in the park, it doesn't cost that much more to accommodate one more person, especially on a light weekday, and there are more opportunities for Disney to sell them crap.
    Last edited by Pressler69; 11-09-2007 at 01:44 PM.

  4. #19

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    Have some facts to back that up?

    If your talking about AP's, well, as much as alot of people with AP's go to DL, they are paying next to nothing for DL as well.

    And remember, when it comes to DCA those numbers for AP's and park-hoppers don't count those that go into Disneyland FIRST in the day. And with Disneyland ALWAYS opening up earlier than DCA when you hop to DCA your attendance doesn't count for DCA on that day.

    So when you think of it in terms of that, there most likely were more than 6 million visitors, they just went into Disneyland first on any particular day.
    1. No facts, just observations and opinions, as always.
    2. I'd like to have proof that the publicly released DL and DCA numbers are first-park-entrance-counts numbers. I've heard this, but it's hard to believe.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  5. #20

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    2. I'd like to have proof that the publicly released DL and DCA numbers are first-park-entrance-counts numbers. I've heard this, but it's hard to believe.
    Euro Disney does this. http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071108/ukth039.html?.v=7
    (1) Theme parks attendance is recorded on a "first click" basis, meaning that a person visiting both parks in a single day is counted as only one visitor.
    Here's what Darkbeer had to say about it in 2005:
    Also, don't forget that "official attendace" is counted as the first park you entered that day, so many AP and ParkHoppers could have started the day at Disneyland, and then move over to DCA to take a break from the crowds, and grab a bite to eat. (Disney does have additional sets of numbers they keep track of, including the ParkHopping number), but that number is not used by AB/ERA. The Industry standard (which Disney created when they opened a second park in Florida) is the First Park of the Day.

    And DCA is a true Business Failure if you look at the original pricing structure, and the comments the Disney execs made, and compare it to the massive discounting and AP sales (I have heard numbers, from over 40%, to 60% of DCA's attendance is AP holders). And even with all the major discounting and pricing changes, they still haven't gotten the original priojected attendance of 7 million.
    Also, they did try to inflate those First Park of the Day numbers by giving away DCA for free on a second day (a day you could only go to DCA). Even that didn't seem to work.
    Last edited by Pressler69; 11-09-2007 at 02:42 PM.

  6. #21

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    This is all so L.A. Nowhere else are people, all people, so critical of frivolous pop culture.

  7. #22

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Welcome to 2001 LA Times blog.

    Their DCA post came right after the 'Man Lands on Moon' post.

  8. #23

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Now that's a slam against DCA - but I think it's a fairly undeserved one.
    Of course you think it's undeserved.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    I think it's easy to tell that DCA is a lot more than just a strip mall. I've never seen a strip mall with rides.
    I guess I haven't seen strip malls with rides, but loads of malls in Southern California feature carrousels and/or ferris wheels - two things you also find at DCA.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    It's one thing to say you didn't like DCA because of the lack of details, the plain stucco walls, the burned out light bulbs - it's one thing to equate it with the strip mall on the corner.
    [bold mine]

    Lack of details? Plain stucco walls? Burnt out light bulbs?

    Sounds like a strip mall to me.

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  9. #24

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    2. I'd like to have proof that the publicly released DL and DCA numbers are first-park-entrance-counts numbers. I've heard this, but it's hard to believe.
    No facts either, just what's been mentioned a few times and I believe in one of Al's articles (I may be mistaken on that one).


  10. #25

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Quote Originally Posted by pussnboots View Post
    This is all so L.A. Nowhere else are people, all people, so critical of frivolous pop culture.
    That's because here in LA, we MAKE pop culture, and thus are hyper-critical of it.

  11. #26

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    If they don't get it right the second time around with another $1 billion, then perhaps it would start to become hopeless. Maybe they should consult Roy Disney for some sensibility. It sure as hell saved them when they did it in the early 90s.

    Sometimes things seem better in concept than they do in execution. There is a certain kind of romanticism to the whole boardwalk, Beach Boys inspired Californian theming, but for whatever reason it just didn't work out at all in reality. I think it has a heck of a lot to do with a failure to establish an atmosphere that was removed enough from the outside world. It's not isolated enough. And it wasn't creative enough, either. They should have attempted to offer something that you couldn't find anywhere else. But many of the attractions were completely cookie cutter. If you're going to be so typical with your attractions, then you should at least present them in a way that makes the experience special somehow, but they didn't really accomplish that either, imo.
    Last edited by scorsese; 11-09-2007 at 06:37 PM.

  12. #27

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    A new post at the LA Times Blog today has the following jabs regarding DCA's Sunshine Plaza entryway:


    Disney shops to reflect Walt’s history

    [bold mine]
    Across the way at Disney’s California Adventure, the central esplanade has all the appeal of a supermarket parking lot. A complete face-lift of the main entrance, part of a $1.1-billion makeover of the entire park, should bring some magic to the soulless space.



    And the blog also had this to share, which I hadn't heard about until now, so if this is true, then awesome! I'd like to see the artist concept sketches mentioned here...

    According to artist concept sketches, each store along the re-themed California Adventure main street (lower case for now) will carry a historically significant hommage to Walt Disney’s past. Here’s a rundown of the shop names and their subtexts:

    Western shop façades
    * Mortimer Market — Disney’s original name for Mickey Mouse before his wife, Lillian, persuaded him to change it
    * Carolwood Trains, Craft & Hobby — Name of Disney’s miniature railroad in the backyard of his Hombly Hills home
    * Horace’s Pawn Shop — Animated horse friend of Mickey Mouse and boyfriend of Clarabelle Cow
    * Julius & Sons Tailors — Animated cat considered Disney’s first regularly recurring character
    * Clarabelle’s Corner Café — Animated cow friend of Minnie Mouse and girlfriend of Horace Horsecollar

    Eastern shop façades
    * Oswald’s Gas & Oil — A pre-Mickey Mouse animated rabbit created by Disney
    * Seward’s Five & Dime — Early Disney animation studio in Hollywood
    * Doc Sherwood Apothecary — A retired doctor in Disney’s hometown of Marceline, Mo., who paid the young artist to draw pictures of his horse, Rupert
    * Kingswell Camera — Early Disney animation studio in Los Feliz
    * Elias & Co. Dept. Store — Disney’s middle name and the name of his father

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  13. #28

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Hmmmm...haven't heard that before either.

    Sounds very interesting!
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  14. #29

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    6+ million people paying nearly nothing to get in, and spending most of their day at DL, is nothing, in terms of ROI.

    That would be 6 million passing through the turnstiles. As I understand it, less than 500,000 actually pay for an actual ticket. While they probably take a portion of AP price for DCA based on the number of AP entrances, along with a portion of 2fer tickets, overall, the it would seem the park takes in a lot less than one would expect.

  15. #30

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    Re: Los Angeles Times blog: "DCA a cheap strip mall knock-off"... plus MiceChat plug

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    Disney’s California Adventure is nothing more than a cheap strip mall knock-off of everything the theme park innovator invented back in 1955.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Now that's a slam against DCA - but I think it's a fairly undeserved one. I think it's easy to tell that DCA is a lot more than just a strip mall. I've never seen a strip mall with rides.
    I agree that the slam is pretty harsh. Yes, DCA was built on the cheap. Yes, DCA has significant problems. But I enjoy visiting DCA every time I visit the parks. And it certainly has it's beauty and charms. Just look at the photos in the thread from LDF's recent visit to DCA. If Mr. MacDonald of the LA Times lives in an area with cheap strip malls that look this great, then I'm living in the wrong neighborhood.

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