DL's Greatest Achievement in its Post-Walt Lifetime

[idreamofjeani]

I picked Haunted Mansion for Attraction. Indiana Jones is more amazing and bold overall, but Haunted Mansion is more crucial to adding to the unique and beautiful atmosphere of New Orleans Square: the most themed and magical place in Disneyland, architecturally. Plus, the ride is incredibly creative, and as someone else mentioned, has no boarding restrictions. It is purely original, not inspired by any film (directly at least), and has some of the most creative gimmicks ever devised by Imagineering, that were later used in other rides in one form or another.

I'd pick the elimination of individual tickets for Admission/Ticketing issues, but alas the poll is flawed.

This is an unfair poll in my opinion.

There is a false dichotomy between the admission system and the attractions that are the point of getting admitted!

It's not fair to make people pick between the two. There should be two seperate polls:

- Most important Attraction/Show accomplishments since Walt
- Most important Admission/Ticketing changes since Walt

[DisneyIPresume]

Originally Posted by mousechild

The AP system was not needed before the change away from the ticket system. When you could get in the park for less than the hourly minimum wage you could go to DL for a couple hours, walk around, ride one or two things, watch the fireworks and leave. The AP is a tool to allow people to do the same today.

Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab

Very true. My family did this often when I was a Southern Californian.

Originally Posted by MollyTrolly

Actually I see this as a disadvantage. Take a conference attendee who through the ticket books could in fact visit the park even if they only had a few house to spend...ride a few rides, have dinner, pick up a souvenier and leave. Today with the creation of the general park admission means this guest would need to buy a day pass at $65 for that experience.

The AP works as the ticket books for those where it makes sense for frequent visitors, espeically those that qualify for the So Cal passes, but is actually a failure for a casual visitor that only has a few hours to spend in the parks.

Interesting comments about AP's. Before the AP system I would go at least once every two to three months and I would have gone more if I had the means of going there by myself. The general admission now is $66 so in order to go at the minimum 6 trips per year which I grew up being accustomed to, would cost me $396 so naturally an AP at this point makes the most sense.

I know Foc isn't a fan of the AP system, but Foc, you are not a local either (meaning 20 minutes away) so I must admit that I should accept your argument whatever it is. But for myself it is probably the only way I could afford to see the park. $66 for one day does just not make economic sense especially when there are no guarantees with that admission. (For that matter there is no guarantee with an AP but at least in my case I can use it at any time)

[crazy go nuts]

I voted for the Haunted Mansion because that was the first major project the imagineers did without (not completely without) Walt's guidance. Walt was involved in a lot of the early concepts but the imagineers were on their own for the actual planning and the final product. They weren't even sure if Walt wanted the mansion to be more grim or more funny. I can't imagine that the Haunted Mansion could have turned out any better even if Walt had been alive.

[Disneyland Daddy]

I don't think that Space Mountain and Haunted Mansion can be part of this. Haunted Mansion opened shortly after Walt died - so he knew of it, and it was techically created during his lifetime. Second, Space Mountain plans were approved and such - so to speak - during Walt's lifetime for Florida property first, and then opened in Anaheim.....so he had something to do with their 'creation' so to speak......

[mousechild]

In some ways the projects that were in progress when Walt died might have been harder to finish than the ones started after his death. I am sure the imagineers felt extreme pressure to finish the projects they Walt would have wanted them to be, but often Walt's most profound touches were last minute adjustments. You know that "That's not right, do it this way" sort of stuff. Until his death Walt was in a sense the Lead on every project.

[DeathDealer]

I like all selections, simply because thats what makes Disneyland great is the collection of wonderfull offerings. I choose AP because it lets me enjoy it often. And I love going.

[Mac Daddy]

Why isn't DCA on the list.


Heh...heh....





Man...what a surly bunch.

[Grandicorney]

Great poll. I ended up voting for Big Thunder since I feel originality counts for a lot. It's also one of my "must ride" attractions whenever I go to the park. Really good theming from entrance to exit. It's a great roller coaster that doesn't really look like a roller coaster. It would look a lot better if the lawyers or whoever is stopping them would let them put the 3rd axle back on the Locos.

Indy was REALLY close to being #1. It's a great ride, with a great ride system and the theming is top-notch from entrance to exit but lost my vote because so much of the story line is lifted straight out of the movie. What happened to IMAGINE-eering.....? Are there no writers there anymore?

Nemo really suffers from the story line problem. A Nemo attraction with an original story would have been much better.

HM would have been good too but I think Walt had a lot of input before his death so I scratched that off my list.

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume

Interesting comments about AP's. Before the AP system I would go at least once every two to three months and I would have gone more if I had the means of going there by myself. The general admission now is $66 so in order to go at the minimum 6 trips per year which I grew up being accustomed to, would cost me $396 so naturally an AP at this point makes the most sense.

I know Foc isn't a fan of the AP system, but Foc, you are not a local either (meaning 20 minutes away) so I must admit that I should accept your argument whatever it is. But for myself it is probably the only way I could afford to see the park. $66 for one day does just not make economic sense especially when there are no guarantees with that admission. (For that matter there is no guarantee with an AP but at least in my case I can use it at any time)

Y'know, I regret some of the criticism I give the AP system, because it gives the impression that I think it should be eradicated. I don't at all. It is a wonderful thing Disney is offering. But there is the concept of 'too much of a good thing'. I disagree with the unregulated sale of APs. There needs to be quotas., IMO. Once those quotas are met, no more AP sales until spots open up. In conjunction, daily admission prices could be lowered to a more 'reasonable' level, and AP prices could be raised (since the commodity is now truly 'limited'). Just my two cents; probably over-valued at that.

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by idreamofjeani

I picked Haunted Mansion for Attraction. Indiana Jones is more amazing and bold overall, but Haunted Mansion is more crucial to adding to the unique and beautiful atmosphere of New Orleans Square: the most themed and magical place in Disneyland, architecturally.

Agreed. My choice as well. DL might be a completely different place had the imagineers failed in their first attempts without Walt's stabilizing influence.

I'd pick the elimination of individual tickets for Admission/Ticketing issues, but alas the poll is flawed.

This is an unfair poll in my opinion.

True. This was its purpose. Having to make decisions in 'unfair' situations sometimes shows us what is really important to us all; and lends insight into what our true priorities might be. Hope you enjoyed it despite its inequitable nature.

[mousechild]

Besides on the last day Swab is going to wipe out the poll and turn it into a get rid of F! and Splash rant.

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by Disneyland Daddy

I don't think that Space Mountain and Haunted Mansion can be part of this. Haunted Mansion opened shortly after Walt died - so he knew of it, and it was techically created during his lifetime. Second, Space Mountain plans were approved and such - so to speak - during Walt's lifetime for Florida property first, and then opened in Anaheim.....so he had something to do with their 'creation' so to speak......

While I agree that Walt certainly had direct knowledge of these attractions, I differ in the opinion that they should be excluded. If you haven't already, you might find Surrell's book on the HM interesting. It illustrates how little Walt had to do with the 'final look' of HM. It was surprising to me. It was utter chaos, creatively speaking--still is, but it works in the Mansion's favor.

Since I haven't seen the plans Walt Disney approved for SM, I can't unequivocably determine if it was built exactly to his specs, but I can say he never saw it, or experienced it (he did 'experience' POTC's 'Auction Scene', so this disqualified it in my mind).

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by mousechild

Besides on the last day Swab is going to wipe out the poll and turn it into a get rid of F! and Splash rant.

Of course. Why should this thread be any different than my others?

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by Grandicorney

Great poll. I ended up voting for Big Thunder since I feel originality counts for a lot. It's also one of my "must ride" attractions whenever I go to the park. Really good theming from entrance to exit. It's a great roller coaster that doesn't really look like a roller coaster. It would look a lot better if the lawyers or whoever is stopping them would let them put the 3rd axle back on the Locos.

Indy was REALLY close to being #1. It's a great ride, with a great ride system and the theming is top-notch from entrance to exit but lost my vote because so much of the story line is lifted straight out of the movie. What happened to IMAGINE-eering.....? Are there no writers there anymore?

Nemo really suffers from the story line problem. A Nemo attraction with an original story would have been much better.

HM would have been good too but I think Walt had a lot of input before his death so I scratched that off my list.

Good post, and a good choice. I was hard-pressed to choose between BTMRR and HM.

[MollyTrolly]

Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab

Y'know, I regret some of the criticism I give the AP system, because it gives the impression that I think it should be eradicated. I don't at all. It is a wonderful thing Disney is offering. But there is the concept of 'too much of a good thing'. I disagree with the unregulated sale of APs. There needs to be quotas., IMO. Once those quotas are met, no more AP sales until spots open up. In conjunction, daily admission prices could be lowered to a more 'reasonable' level, and AP prices could be raised (since the commodity is now truly 'limited'). Just my two cents; probably over-valued at that.

This is a very interesting thought. The concept of limiting the sale of APs however could create a “good old boys club” type atmosphere, especially if it’s first come first serve, and current holders renew first choice. It becomes something like club 33 (or the Green Bay Packers for that matter) where those that get in early have first dibs and new fans / members are shut out.

Let’s say I am able to get in on this, but my son is only 2, so unless he is grandfathered in, I would not be able to get him a pass…same with singles who later get married, etc. I am fine for a specific amount as long as it’s first come first serve each year, maybe in the form or a lottery, with turnover every year. Increasing the price significantly would also shut out potential guests from a sheer ability to afford it for their family. And even if they can afford the pass, at what cost is it to the amount that family is able to spend at the parks when they do visit. This could truly create a class of APers that are only represented by the upper middle class of society as a whole. The whole purpose of the So Cal AP is to make the AP experience available for the masses.

This all goes back to the flaw that I always speak up for which is the business model DLR has built for itself with the elimination ticket books, daily, multiday and APs. The goal is to get locals into the park as often as possible and keep visitors there as long as possible. Excluding so many locals from a quick visit could mean a revenue loss far beyond that of the annual AP sales. It could also decrease park capacity which would mean people would ride more rides, and spend less time shopping and at dining establishments.

None of this is good for the Resort because less revenue means limited funds for improvements and expansion, let alone general maintenance. It’s going to cost a lot of money to tear down Splash and put your WRE in its place. The current business model supports that much better than changing the structure of tickets available.