DL's Greatest Achievement in its Post-Walt Lifetime

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by MollyTrolly

This is a very interesting thought. The concept of limiting the sale of APs however could create a “good old boys club” type atmosphere, especially if it’s first come first serve, and current holders renew first choice. It becomes something like club 33 (or the Green Bay Packers for that matter) where those that get in early have first dibs and new fans / members are shut out.

Let’s say I am able to get in on this, but my son is only 2, so unless he is grandfathered in, I would not be able to get him a pass…same with singles who later get married, etc. I am fine for a specific amount as long as it’s first come first serve each year, maybe in the form or a lottery, with turnover every year. Increasing the price significantly would also shut out potential guests from a sheer ability to afford it for their family. And even if they can afford the pass, at what cost is it to the amount that family is able to spend at the parks when they do visit. This could truly create a class of APers that are only represented by the upper middle class of society as a whole. The whole purpose of the So Cal AP is to make the AP experience available for the masses.

This all goes back to the flaw that I always speak up for which is the business model DLR has built for itself with the elimination ticket books, daily, multiday and APs. The goal is to get locals into the park as often as possible and keep visitors there as long as possible. Excluding so many locals from a quick visit could mean a revenue loss far beyond that of the annual AP sales. It could also decrease park capacity which would mean people would ride more rides, and spend less time shopping and at dining establishments.

None of this is good for the Resort because less revenue means limited funds for improvements and expansion, let alone general maintenance. It’s going to cost a lot of money to tear down Splash and put your WRE in its place. The current business model supports that much better than changing the structure of tickets available.

Of course, if your goal is to jam as many Guests as you possibly can into Disneyland through offering virtually free (proportional to 'local' AP holders frequent visits) admission, then yes, their current model works better. Why not have fewer Guests paying more for the privelege of potential unlimited access, rather than more paying less? It is price and policy here that is flexible, not the capacity of DLR--it is finite. With price increase, and AP regulation, I hardly think people will just stop going to DL--they will simply pay more for the experience, IMO. And if fewer go, but revenues stay the same/increase, so much the better, says I. There seems to be little data to really make an educated guess in regards to what percentage of revenue spent at the Parks comes from AP holders, so all is mere speculation to outsiders.

My intent is not to outline a 'fair' regulatory plan, because there is no such thing; someone/group will always feel disenfranchised and discriminated against. But ultimately, whatever program that results in the extermination of F!, and Splash Mountain's destruction is the one for me.

[techskip]

Ummm.... you forgot the J.C. expansions in there Swab!

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by techskip

Ummm.... you forgot the J.C. expansions in there Swab!

And the WFJC expansion, Adventurer's Club, and the hiring of skips that don't make me want to drown myself in the ridiculously shallow dreaded DL Orinoco. Oh, and better speakers on the boat (or teach the skips not to jam the mic inside their mouths while speiling).

[MollyTrolly]

Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab

Of course, if your goal is to jam as many Guests as you possibly can into Disneyland through offering virtually free (proportional to 'local' AP holders frequent visits) admission, then yes, their current model works better. Why not have fewer Guests paying more for the privelege of potential unlimited access, rather than more paying less? It is price and policy here that is flexible, not the capacity of DLR--it is finite. With price increase, and AP regulation, I hardly think people will just stop going to DL--they will simply pay more for the experience, IMO. And if fewer go, but revenues stay the same/increase, so much the better, says I. There seems to be little data to really make an educated guess in regards to what percentage of revenue spent at the Parks comes from AP holders, so all is mere speculation to outsiders.

My intent is not to outline a 'fair' regulatory plan, because there is no such thing; someone/group will always feel disenfranchised and discriminated against. But ultimately, whatever program that results in the extermination of F!, and Splash Mountain's destruction is the one for me.

Obviously I would prefer to visit and have the park nice and quiet, but I also understand that it is in great part consumer spending within the parks that are allowing the current renovations of DCA, and hopefully fixing problems within DL as well. If the 50th had not been so successful what is happening at DCA now and in the future would most likely not be possible.

Yes it is correct without any available data I am making a guess about the consumer spending habits of those that visit the Disney Parks. However what I do know from basic consumer habits is that when the admission price (or cost of an item in general) is raised there is less spending on other value added services associated (in relation to income level of the individual of course). Do I buy the $30,000 base car and buy all the loaded accessories, or do I buy the base model $45,000 car with no extras. It’s a matter of preference to which car I buy yes, but at the end of the day, I know I will not be spending more than that $45k (which IMO is too much for any car, but that’s another story).

I believe I will have visited the park ~10 visits this year on my AP, and when we visit we have a set amount to spend for food etc for that visit. Without my AP we would only visit maybe once per year and still only spend that one same amount, just once.

I am willing to bet that eliminating APs for the general population, even if that means lowering the general admission ticket will decrease attendance numbers in general and in-park spending. Unfortunately I fear that unless you can find a way to lower attendance specifically on Splash and at F!, nether my nor your AP scenario will assist in your WRE cause. (Although TheGirlTrolly went on Splash a few months ago and will never again, so that’s one down).

[mousechild]

Rather than wipe out the AP system completely, or limiting their availability through rationing, I would prefer that the price differential between the lower end AP and the high end AP be increased make the no blackout AP cost a lot more. I also am in favor of variable pricing on the single visit admission pass, more expensive during the peak season and a tad less expensive during the off season.

[BroncoBob]

Originally Posted by mousechild

Rather than wipe out the AP system completely, or limiting their availability through rationing, I would prefer that the price differential between the lower end AP and the high end AP be increased make the no blackout AP cost a lot more. I also am in favor of variable pricing on the single visit admission pass, more expensive during the peak season and a tad less expensive during the off season.

I'm gonna add a little here...
What about axing the SoCal AP'S?
Now, before i get the pitchforks and torches coming after me, wouldnt this make just a lil bit of sense. In a way, it wouldnt be rationing the AP's, it would be more the mouse saying " if you want to come a lot, you gotta pay to play."
I'm sure more people would not opt to but a more expensive pass, if they only use their SoCal once or twice. I'd be bitter, but i would swallow my pride and get a delux if that was one of the only two available. But how many others would follow?

[MollyTrolly]

Originally Posted by BroncoBob

I'm gonna add a little here...
What about axing the SoCal AP'S?
Now, before i get the pitchforks and torches coming after me, wouldnt this make just a lil bit of sense. In a way, it wouldnt be rationing the AP's, it would be more the mouse saying " if you want to come a lot, you gotta pay to play."
I'm sure more people would not opt to but a more expensive pass, if they only use their SoCal once or twice. I'd be bitter, but i would swallow my pride and get a delux if that was one of the only two available. But how many others would follow?

I would be willing to fork out a bit more cash for the deluxe if I were unable to get a So Cal pass, if the price was as it is right now, but the differential in cost probably isnt enough to sway many away. I think they only true way to lower the number of APers would be limit So Cal and significantly raise DAP and PAPs so its out of reach, which would significantly reduce attendance numbers IMO hurting revenue.

A better option may be to raise the number of days So Cal passes are blacked out, which honestly I would be okay with. As a local I can plan around whatever dates are available to me.

I do however like the idea Mousechild had with changing the ticket prices based on peak season. However I feel this option would be less attractive to out of town visitors.

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by MollyTrolly

Obviously I would prefer to visit and have the park nice and quiet, but I also understand that it is in great part consumer spending within the parks that are allowing the current renovations of DCA, and hopefully fixing problems within DL as well. If the 50th had not been so successful what is happening at DCA now and in the future would most likely not be possible.

Since there is no data to support the idea that consumer spending would decrease with AP regulation and subsequent price increases, I really can't say if the scenario you or I outline is accurate. But with less Guests paying more, staffing costs are diminished, as are certain consumables costs.

Yes it is correct without any available data I am making a guess about the consumer spending habits of those that visit the Disney Parks. However what I do know from basic consumer habits is that when the admission price (or cost of an item in general) is raised there is less spending on other value added services associated (in relation to income level of the individual of course). Do I buy the $30,000 base car and buy all the loaded accessories, or do I buy the base model $45,000 car with no extras. It’s a matter of preference to which car I buy yes, but at the end of the day, I know I will not be spending more than that $45k (which IMO is too much for any car, but that’s another story).

Well, using the car analogy, Porsche doesn't need to sell or produce as many vehicles as Honda to make proportionally the same revenue because each unit is more expensive and of better quality plus the production facility costs are less.

I believe I will have visited the park ~10 visits this year on my AP, and when we visit we have a set amount to spend for food etc for that visit. Without my AP we would only visit maybe once per year and still only spend that one same amount, just once.

True that those visiting DL without APs will visit, probably, less. This does not automatically equal decreased revenue, as there are factors not being accounted for in the costs associated with massive Guest influx, and the difference an admission price increase will offset (for APs). In addition, I am not in favor of limiting the APs to a level of scarcity, just to reasonably control the AP sales, and re-instill inherent value to them. When people are buying, unrestricted, APs because the price is cheaper than three park visits, and they are too lazy to buy admission outright each time, there is something wrong, IMO. Maybe a 'Seasonal Pass' is a more reasonable proposal--a 'quarterly AP'...it might make more regulated AP slots more available for purchase?

I am willing to bet that eliminating APs for the general population, even if that means lowering the general admission ticket will decrease attendance numbers in general and in-park spending.

Exactly. But in-park overhead will also be affected, as will the revenue generated by increased AP admission price, consumable costs, staffing concerns, maintenance considerations...who really knows?

Unfortunately I fear that unless you can find a way to lower attendance specifically on Splash and at F!, nether my nor your AP scenario will assist in your WRE cause. (Although TheGirlTrolly went on Splash a few months ago and will never again, so that’s one down).[/

Looks like Splash is finding a way to lower attendance on its own (if your daughter is any indicator ). And my army grows...

[pineapplewhipaddict]

I voted for Splash Mountain, Indy coming in at a close second.

At first I was going to vote for Indy but then I remembered how poorly it is usually kept up. Many of the original effects that were used had some sort of malfunction and have sat there to rot away or what have you. In it's original, pure form, I would say it's the greatest, but in order to be you have to stay that way.

Splash, on the other hand, harks back to an attraction on caliber of Pirates in that it seamlessly utilizes AAs with wonderful music and thrills-after all these years, it seems to have been kept a bit better than Indy has.

Indy has gone through so many downgrades...*sigh* Let's hope that this new film will grant the attraction a bit of a makeover.

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict

I voted for Splash Mountain, Indy coming in at a close second.

At first I was going to vote for Indy but then I remembered how poorly it is usually kept up. Many of the original effects that were used had some sort of malfunction and have sat there to rot away or what have you. In it's original, pure form, I would say it's the greatest, but in order to be you have to stay that way.

Splash, on the other hand, harks back to an attraction on caliber of Pirates in that it seamlessly utilizes AAs with wonderful music and thrills-after all these years, it seems to have been kept a bit better than Indy has.

Indy has gone through so many downgrades...*sigh* Let's hope that this new film will grant the attraction a bit of a makeover.

Say it ain't so, Pineapple Queen! I truthfully put Splash Mountain in as a lark (and as payback to some of you diehard weirdos who love it). I really didn't expect it to get any votes (when you consider the distinguished company it's keeping). You SM fans are a mystery to me.

[mousechild]

Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab

Say it ain't so, Pineapple Queen! I truthfully put Splash Mountain in as a lark (and as payback to some of you diehard weirdos who love it). I really didn't expect it to get any votes (when you consider the distinguished company it's keeping). You SM fans are a mystery to me.

When I saw her post I knew you were going to flip your wig.

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by mousechild

When I saw her post I knew you were going to flip your wig.

Well, at least TWO things are going as I suspected: Indy dominates, and Nemo has no votes. I really thought the AP program would be right up there with HM, however. Go figure (in a good way).

[Ride Warrior]

I selected Splash Mountain as DL's greatest post-Walt achievement. The fact that it is my favorite attraction has everything to do w it. The flume ride, the critters, the scenery, the music ad character voices - it all adds up to the most immersive magical/thrilling experience Disney has created.

Great original thread topic!

[fo'c's'le swab]

Originally Posted by Ride Warrior

I selected Splash Mountain as DL's greatest post-Walt achievement. The fact that it is my favorite attraction has everything to do w it. The flume ride, the critters, the scenery, the music ad character voices - it all adds up to the most immersive magical/thrilling experience Disney has created.

Great original thread topic!

Good Lord--all those Splash Mountain bashes are coming back to haunt me!!

Seriously, really glad you liked the thread, and thanks to all for taking the time to stop and consider, vote, and post!

[aashee]

Originally Posted by mousechild

When I saw her post I knew you were going to flip your wig.

Action photo of Fo'C thinking about Splash Mountain.