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  1. #301

    • That's Hawt
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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyUSC
    We've actually briefly had all *7* trains on the track, so yes, that has nothing to do with it..
    Ok, good to know, how many block zones are there? And do you have any idea what happened on the 29th?
    Quote Originally Posted by drunkmom
    this is my first buzzed post in the DMCA -- I'm really in this club because I'm a bitch more than anything. I've only had to hit the backspace 4 (oops, make that 5) times in (now 7) in this (now 9) (now 15) in this post! Damn, now I'm up to 18! Our neighbors were (19) (20) making tequilla sunrises. I thought I couldn't do tequilla (22) anymore but (24) this stuff (26) was good! It started (27) with an s



  2. #302

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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    Thriller: well, the Indy cars are on a track, of course, but yes, the brakes are on the vehicles themselves. Still they are all controlled by the ride system which they are attached to (the cars also receive their power through the track, that's why, during a ride stop, it is ESSENTIAL for CMs to keep guests away from the center of the track where the hole is. If someone's foot slipped in there they would get quite a shock!).

    Anyway, it's basically not stopping quick enough and coming to a halt a little beyond the intended point. A difference of a foot or two at most.

    And again, I'm not sure if coasters have this issue, because I didn't work an actual coaster.

    Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe...



  3. #303

    • Minion
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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    I would like to point out something about DCA and California Screamin'.

    While CM Matt has been able to take Disneyland's Maintenance back to it's proper high levels-- largely because there are records of how exactly the maintenance was done back then-- it's not necessarily easy to make DCA as safe.

    DCA was built under Pressler and Harriss who were bottom line draggers and didn't care much about maint. And in building DCA, they probably NEVER established Disney's real high standards for DCA. So CM Matt's got a hard job finding out were the maint needs to go and how often for the newer park.

  4. #304

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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneySavor
    I would like to point out something about DCA and California Screamin'.

    While CM Matt has been able to take Disneyland's Maintenance back to it's proper high levels-- largely because there are records of how exactly the maintenance was done back then-- it's not necessarily easy to make DCA as safe.

    DCA was built under Pressler and Harriss who were bottom line draggers and didn't care much about maint. And in building DCA, they probably NEVER established Disney's real high standards for DCA. So CM Matt's got a hard job finding out were the maint needs to go and how often for the newer park.

    This could very well be true, please keep in mind though at this point we do not know if this incident resulted from insufficient maintenance.

  5. #305

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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    Quote Originally Posted by MiceMan
    Ok, good to know, how many block zones are there?
    Well, Starting from the first zone after the station:

    Zone 1, 2.1 (Launch Area) , 2.2 (Launch Hill), 3, 4 (Lift Hill), 5 (Loop) 6, 7 (Brake Zone before Helix), 8, 9, 10A(Main Side of Station), and 10B (Spur side of Station). Trains can not occupy 2.1 & 2.2 at the same time.. Train will not advance from Zone 1 to 2.1 until the train has cleared Zone 2.2

    During a Ride Cascade Stop, trains can back up into Zone 7.. (5 Train Operation)
    trains have 45 seconds to advance, or a CM must go to Zone 7 to manually reset the Zone, and advance the train (which cannot be done if a Train is in Zone 8). If trains back up into Zone 6 (6 train operation), a CM must go to Zone 6 to manually reset the Zone if the train stops in this Zone at all.

  6. #306

    • NEVER to Old To Fly...
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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyDreamer
    My God... hope the injuires weren't too serious...

    Nothing a good Lawer can't fix
    -----------------------------------------------
    DISNEYLAND: Greatest Man-Made Place On Earth

    YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK: Greatest *GOD-Made Place On Earth

  7. #307

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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyUSC
    Okie.. First, my background.. I was a trainer & a Lead on California Screamin before the park OPENED.. I was also the Cast Member that pushed the manual e-stop when this happened BEFORE.

    A similar (scarily) similar incident happened before this, back during test & adjust.. after this incident, Disney completely overhauled the Ride Control System so that this COULD NOT happen again...

    From what I've read & heard.. the trailing train DID stop in zone 7, or was at least tagged, as if it didn't, if would have impacted in zone 8 at around 35mph.. which it clearly did not, or the damage to the trains would have been far worse than it was.

    Someone suggested Magnetic Brakes.. they exist, and are in the entrance to Zone 8, they also drop down after the train gets half way through the zone, to allow the train to exit the zone in a timely manner to prevent a cascade from occurring.

    As to 6 trains.. Yes, Screamin was designed to run with 6 trains on the track at once.. I was there the first day we did it with guests, and it was great Pride for the CMs to be able to run that efficiently and safely, as we were setting hourly count records for the Attraction, and still getting 100% Mystery Guest scores..

    As to what happened this time.. In Normal Mode, which is the mode the ride operates in.. there is NO WAY for a CM to override the safety system and allow the trains to collide.. it just isn't possible. The only way for an operator to do that would be if the ride were in Maintenance mode.. and the only way to switch from one to the other is a complete Power down/Power Up of the ride.. which would immediately close all brakes on the ride.

    The ride is doubly redundant, there are 2 sensors everywhere on the ride where there needs to be a sensor.. so you have Two Zone 7 entrance sensors, two zone 7 exit sensors, two zone 8 entrance, two zone 8 midpoint, and two zone 8 exit sensors.. zone 8 is the only zone with midpoint sensors to drop the mag. brakes.

    If any set of sensors disagree, the result is an Auto-E (Automatic Emergency Stop)

    Hope this answers some questions, if it raises more, please feel free to ask.

    Mike
    Thanks for the information! Can you go into a little more deatil about the modes of the ride??

    From Darkbeer's 7-30-05 post of pictures, I saw that train green and yellow were both in the station. Train red was in the brake zone right behind the station. What must have happened was that the orange train was stopped completely in the first brake zone before turning left back to the station. Orange stopped completely because train red was in the brake zone ahead of it. What should have happened was that train purple should have stopped in the brake zone right off the bunny hills, but it didn't. Instead, it continued and train orange must have been forward enough to allow enough room for train purple to slow just a little before rear ending it.

    (Train green is on the right side of the station, but is a little hard to see. This was from 7-30-05)

    (7-31-05)

    (7-31-05)

    (train purple is just barely visible behind orange)
    Last edited by DisneyMickey; 08-01-2005 at 05:20 PM.

  8. #308

    • No Longer The Candidate
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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    Do I need to point out that the information presented by Your Mom and MikeyUSC are contradictory. The problem with the Internet is anyone can post information and too many people repeat it as The Truth.

  9. #309

    • ...or just Tonny
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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyUSC
    Well, Starting from the first zone after the station:

    Zone 1, 2.1 (Launch Area) , 2.2 (Launch Hill), 3, 4 (Lift Hill), 5 (Loop) 6, 7 (Brake Zone before Helix), 8, 9, 10A(Main Side of Station), and 10B (Spur side of Station). Trains can not occupy 2.1 & 2.2 at the same time.. Train will not advance from Zone 1 to 2.1 until the train has cleared Zone 2.2

    During a Ride Cascade Stop, trains can back up into Zone 7.. (5 Train Operation)
    trains have 45 seconds to advance, or a CM must go to Zone 7 to manually reset the Zone, and advance the train (which cannot be done if a Train is in Zone 8). If trains back up into Zone 6 (6 train operation), a CM must go to Zone 6 to manually reset the Zone if the train stops in this Zone at all.
    Hmm, interesting! So, why is zone 2 split up? Does that make any sense?
    Ad luna in flamma gloria

  10. #310

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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    Quote Originally Posted by Thriller
    Hmm, interesting! So, why is zone 2 split up? Does that make any sense?
    Yes, it does.. when a Train Launches from Zone 2.1, if there is an E-Stop, it will continue moving and launch into closed brakes on the Launch Hill, Zone 2.2.
    The LIMS in that section of track are not powerful enough to continue to jog the train up & over the hill with enough speed to make it to zone 3, so the train must be released back down into zone 2.1, repositioned in the Launch, and eventually launched back down the track in order to make it into zone 3. This is also why the train in Zone 1 will not advance until the train has cleared Zone 2.2, in case it has to roll back into Zone 2.1

  11. #311

    • Darkbeer
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    Re: Accident at Disneyland 7.29.05

    Don't forget to check out Al's article on MiceAge today, a lot of new info...

    http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al080205a.htm
    Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

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