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Thread: Roger Rabbit

  1. #46

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    I have to say that I'm terribly angered and upset by the fact that some of you are under the presumption that big breasts = slut.

    I myself am "top-heavy" and I can't go into Victoria's Secret to buy a bra-a fact that's incredibly frustrating because I'm being told that I basically do not exist. I didn't get plastic surgery, this is just how my body turned out. As Jessica herself says, "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." I can't express to you how much I relate with that phrase.

    Jessica Rabbit represents the old Hollywood glamor woman that I can relate to-a woman with curves, like Marilyn Monroe, which is exactly what her character should look like-she simply represents her own era. Audrey Hepburn turned everything around-I'm sure she had no intention to change the way society depicts women; she always considered herself gawky and such. Now we have girls with eating disorders to be as skinny as she was. Go figure!

    Jessica isn't the typical stick that most of the other female characters are-she's far more independent and in control of herself and her destiny. The way she looks, moves and sings simply reflects her time period. Maybe our ultra-conservative, anorexic-oriented society is too afraid for a woman like Jessica-she represents everything that a girl inside wants to be, for she is beautiful, independent, talented, and can take care of herself. Too hot and too much of an individual to handle?

    I'm glad she looks different. I have a character I can relate to. Is it any wonder that all of the Jessica Rabbit merch that becomes available is so popular? (BTW, guys, for those that are complaining about her merch and other Disney merch, check out Hot Topic). We love her, men and women alike. The pin-up girl is the girl that is confident, which usually is not seem as "wholesome". She's comfortable with who she is. She's far more powerful than most of those other Disney girls combined.

    Additionally, I find Tinkerbell to be far more of a sexual character than Jessica Rabbit could ever be. Jessica is mostly very sweet or controlled, a natural woman, whereas Tinkerbell is vain, jealous and all those other nasty adjectives you could come up with for the popular girls that you dealt with at school (In the end, insecure with herself.)


    So I say, bring on the Roger and Jessica!

  2. #47

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    I have to say that I'm terribly angered and upset by the fact that some of you are under the presumption that big breasts = slut.
    Okay I may be guilty of skimming this topic, but who said anything about that? I'm sure the heterosexual men above have nothing but respect for Jessica (and yourself). Yes that's right isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    So I say, bring on the Roger and Jessica!
    YAY!
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  3. #48

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    I have to say that I'm terribly angered and upset by the fact that some of you are under the presumption that big breasts = slut.

    I myself am "top-heavy" and I can't go into Victoria's Secret to buy a bra-a fact that's incredibly frustrating because I'm being told that I basically do not exist. I didn't get plastic surgery, this is just how my body turned out. As Jessica herself says, "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." I can't express to you how much I relate with that phrase.

    Jessica Rabbit represents the old Hollywood glamor woman that I can relate to-a woman with curves, like Marilyn Monroe, which is exactly what her character should look like-she simply represents her own era. Audrey Hepburn turned everything around-I'm sure she had no intention to change the way society depicts women; she always considered herself gawky and such. Now we have girls with eating disorders to be as skinny as she was. Go figure!

    Jessica isn't the typical stick that most of the other female characters are-she's far more independent and in control of herself and her destiny. The way she looks, moves and sings simply reflects her time period. Maybe our ultra-conservative, anorexic-oriented society is too afraid for a woman like Jessica-she represents everything that a girl inside wants to be, for she is beautiful, independent, talented, and can take care of herself. Too hot and too much of an individual to handle?

    I'm glad she looks different. I have a character I can relate to. Is it any wonder that all of the Jessica Rabbit merch that becomes available is so popular? (BTW, guys, for those that are complaining about her merch and other Disney merch, check out Hot Topic). We love her, men and women alike. The pin-up girl is the girl that is confident, which usually is not seem as "wholesome". She's comfortable with who she is. She's far more powerful than most of those other Disney girls combined.

    Additionally, I find Tinkerbell to be far more of a sexual character than Jessica Rabbit could ever be. Jessica is mostly very sweet or controlled, a natural woman, whereas Tinkerbell is vain, jealous and all those other nasty adjectives you could come up with for the popular girls that you dealt with at school (In the end, insecure with herself.)


    So I say, bring on the Roger and Jessica!
    I left this in it's entirety because it is well written, and very powerful. Now to address it.

    I personally love that era, Old Hollywood Glamor if you will. I am a HUGE fan of Marylin Monroe. Ironically I am not one for blondes, and I think my fascination has more to do with the style and less to do with the actual figure. That said, I enjoy Jessica, and what limited merchandise they have of her.

    I, for one, did not call her a slut. I said that certain scenes in that movie made some people very uncomfortable. And part of that discomfort was that they attended the show with their family under the misconception that they were attending a kid's cartoon marketed by Disney. I know a lot of parents who brought small kids thinking it would be a fun cartoon, only to leave because of the opening bar scene. I think MANY on here can agree that certain scenes were definately not geared to younger viewers. Likewise, Jessica is the first Disney character I know of to be a Playboy covergirl... a title that seems to be in direct contrast to the Disney brand. In fact if you read the article (I have, and I used to own that copy) you would realize that is why they placed her on the cover. Her placement was specifically BECAUSE it was a definitive break from the traditional Disney brand. The real shocker is that Disney agreed to allow this... they marketed one of their characters on an adult magazine. Granted Playboy is generally regarded as a "classy" adult magazine, but that doesn't diminish what it is. So I ask, what message does that convey to kids? I am sure if they put Hercules or Tarzan on the cover of Playgirl people would have a similar reaction!

    As to your comment on Hot Topic; I've found Tink in there before in some rather suggestive poses. I also found her on other clothing merchandise including thongs and even on some things that I will not mention here in this thread for obvious reasons. In fact I believe there is a thread on here comparing Disney Vault to Hot Topic! These products would lead me to believe that if anything our current society is less conservative then the time period portrayed. I hate to pull the Walt card, but I highly doubt he would have put Snow White on a Playboy cover given the chance. I really do not think that he designed Tink because he thought it would be a great centerpiece for a woman's thong. I would like to think that he would separate his cartoons for kids, from entertainment for adults. In fact the birth of 33, private hidden drinking out of sight of kids, and the no alcohol policy in Disneyland would hint at this belief.

    The other fact is that most Disney cartoons barely imply a sexual overtone. It is there, but it is very subtle. Roger Rabbit was anything but subtle. Again I personally have no problem with it, I enjoyed the movie and continue to enjoy it, but I have kids and I would definately not want them watch it at their current age. Their current age happens to be the "Disney age" 5, 4, and 2... usually they market for 7 and younger! Do you really feel that this movie was appropriate for a 7 year old?

    It is one thing to address this as an Adult and say "Good for Jessica, she's different" it is quite another to look at the same character through the eyes of a child. What we comprehend as seductive beauty,independence and power, can easily send a very mixed message to a younger audience.
    Last edited by techskip; 01-18-2008 at 07:54 PM.
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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    The other fact is that most Disney cartoons barely imply a sexual overtone. It is there, but it is very subtle. Roger Rabbit was anything but subtle. Again I personally have no problem with it, I enjoyed the movie and continue to enjoy it, but I have kids and I would definately not want them watch it at their current age. Their current age happens to be the "Disney age" 5, 4, and 2... usually they market for 7 and younger! Do you really feel that this movie was appropriate for a 7 year old?
    I think it was a very poor decision for Disney to allow Jessica on the cover of Playboy. That being said, I think this movie is easily appropriate for a 7 year old. Heck, if I have kids I would have no problem with them watching it at any age. I saw the R-rated versions of National Lampoon's Vacation and Terminator 2 when I was 8 or 9, and I turned out fine.

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHost2 View Post
    I think it was a very poor decision for Disney to allow Jessica on the cover of Playboy. That being said, I think this movie is easily appropriate for a 7 year old. Heck, if I have kids I would have no problem with them watching it at any age. I saw the R-rated versions of National Lampoon's Vacation and Terminator 2 when I was 8 or 9, and I turned out fine.
    7, possibly, but I have a 4 year old daughter who idolizes the princesses... not so sure I want her to meet Jessica until she is a bit older. I too saw a lot as a kid (Predator, Terminator, Die Hard etc.) and I guess it depends on the age of the kid. At the same time parents usually regard the Disney brand, and cartoons in general, as being "safe". To attend under that presumption (some of the trailers neglected the bar scene and went for the fun spinning "Cabbie") and then be presented with an arguably Adult sexual theme in a speakeasy made some people uncomfortable, mainly because they were with their own kids expecting something a lot tamer.
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  6. #51

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I left this in it's entirety because it is well written, and very powerful. Now to address it.

    I personally love that era, Old Hollywood Glamor if you will. I am a HUGE fan of Marylin Monroe. Ironically I am not one for blondes, and I think my fascination has more to do with the style and less to do with the actual figure. That said, I enjoy Jessica, and what limited merchandise they have of her.

    I, for one, did not call her a slut. I said that certain scenes in that movie made some people very uncomfortable. And part of that discomfort was that they attended the show with their family under the misconception that they were attending a kid's cartoon marketed by Disney. I know a lot of parents who brought small kids thinking it would be a fun cartoon, only to leave because of the opening bar scene. I think MANY on here can agree that certain scenes were definately not geared to younger viewers. Likewise, Jessica is the first Disney character I know of to be a Playboy covergirl... a title that seems to be in direct contrast to the Disney brand. In fact if you read the article (I have, and I used to own that copy) you would realize that is why they placed her on the cover. Her placement was specifically BECAUSE it was a definitive break from the traditional Disney brand. The real shocker is that Disney agreed to allow this... they marketed one of their characters on an adult magazine. Granted Playboy is generally regarded as a "classy" adult magazine, but that doesn't diminish what it is. So I ask, what message does that convey to kids? I am sure if they put Hercules or Tarzan on the cover of Playgirl people would have a similar reaction!

    As to your comment on Hot Topic; I've found Tink in there before in some rather suggestive poses. I also found her on other clothing merchandise including thongs and even on some things that I will not mention here in this thread for obvious reasons. In fact I believe there is a thread on here comparing Disney Vault to Hot Topic! These products would lead me to believe that if anything our current society is less conservative then the time period portrayed. I hate to pull the Walt card, but I highly doubt he would have put Snow White on a Playboy cover given the chance. I really do not think that he designed Tink because he thought it would be a great centerpiece for a woman's thong. I would like to think that he would separate his cartoons for kids, from entertainment for adults. In fact the birth of 33, private hidden drinking out of sight of kids, and the no alcohol policy in Disneyland would hint at this belief.

    The other fact is that most Disney cartoons barely imply a sexual overtone. It is there, but it is very subtle. Roger Rabbit was anything but subtle. Again I personally have no problem with it, I enjoyed the movie and continue to enjoy it, but I have kids and I would definately not want them watch it at their current age. Their current age happens to be the "Disney age" 5, 4, and 2... usually they market for 7 and younger! Do you really feel that this movie was appropriate for a 7 year old?

    It is one thing to address this as an Adult and say "Good for Jessica, she's different" it is quite another to look at the same character through the eyes of a child. What we comprehend as seductive beauty,independence and power, can easily send a very mixed message to a younger audience.
    Ah, wonderful post!

    No, Jessica definitely does not have the overt "Disney" clean scent about her.

    But you know what? Maybe Disney was fed up being labeled as the G-rated kiddie brand, and maybe they were trying to break free of it.

    Doesn't it annoy you when some of your non-Disney-fan friends mock the Disney brand? That because you're an adult and enjoy Disney, you're childish and a loser? It's that type of thinking that also spurred this film I think. It's spreading the outreach to audiences.

    I find it rather hysterical that people came to watch Roger with their kids without looking at the film rating first. In terms of parenting and just simple logic, that was their own fault lol. It's like that really "adult" game that came out that was a cartoon of a squirrel...parents bought it for their kids without reading any of the labels and later discovered to their horror what the content of the game was. It's their thoughtless behavior that's the problem; if a corporation wants to release something for the public, they have the right, and it's the public's decision whether or not they wish to consume.

    But on that note, for the most part, I think adults strain over how children are affected by sexual content far more than children do themselves. I've had my Roger Rabbit movie since before I can remember, and I certainly didn't analyze it the way you and I do today...I just thought it was a fun movie. Jessica was beautiful and cool, Roger was funny, and that girl that was dressed like Jessica was creepy. I didn't strut around and wiggle my hips or the like. I can tell you that most little girls think the term "boobies" are funny before they get them It's kinda like the issue of the PC changes that were applied to Pirates of the Caribbean. I had a girl from my college tell me that college boys are rapists because the ride influenced them I'd really like to see a study done on that....but oh well.

    In any case, people place these over-the-top expectations on Disney to have the brand geared exactly a specific way, towards children, and for the brand to be completely innocent. Even in Walt's time, I don't think these expectations were ever met. I watch my old Disney films now and I discover a lot of things that went right over my head as a child but were clearly geared for an adult audience, or simply aren't "PC". I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Those that attempt to blame Disney for this or that fail to look at other outside influences as well. Our society is not just shaped by the Disney brand, and the Disney brand simply reflects our society with ever film it makes. Don't you tell me after watching Snow White that she isn't a stereotypical representation of women from her era!

    As for Walt and thongs...no, I really doubt he would have even dreamed that up. (But P.S., some women don't choose to wear thongs to get attention, but to make sure that there isn't an annoying underwear line showing lol.) Walt also came from a different period of time, though. While his ideals and business strategies worked incredibly well with the public he understood several decades ago, it's not the same type of public today. Maybe if Walt were still alive, he'd embrace Tinkerbell underwear...I really have no idea, as I can't assume what the man would do. But I do know that he understood what the public wanted, and he delivered.

    While he might not have allowed drinking outside of Club 33 at Disneyland, he did have casting guidelines for the CMs in the park. Depending on your look, you would be chosen for a certain attraction at the park. The taller, more model-like women worked the Monorail, for example. If Walt was so innocent, then please explain to me why he chose his tour guides and ambassadors to dress in sexy riding attire, whip and all?

    One last note...as much as parents don't want their children exposed to anything sexual, it's one thing to keep them safe, and it's another thing to keep them sexually repressed. We're sexual beings and mammals, as much as we all wish to deny it. Seeing a female character with curves, I think, isn't dangerous to a child's innocence. They're not watching porn. On the flip side, it can be noted to be just as dangerous for little girls to idolize these thin princesses, without an ounce of fat on their bodies, who are anatomically for the most part incorrect. So while one girl may want to look like Jessica and have breasts (and I hate to tell you, but I have yet to meet a single female that hasn't wanted them), another may want to have the body of Ariel and will starve herself to get there.

    In the end, it's impossible to keep them 100% safe from these thoughts and feelings. They will be exposed to it, and in the end, Disney nor any other media outlet has the obligation to the public to remove any of these implications.

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    Ah, wonderful post!

    No, Jessica definitely does not have the overt "Disney" clean scent about her.

    But you know what? Maybe Disney was fed up being labeled as the G-rated kiddie brand, and maybe they were trying to break free of it.

    Doesn't it annoy you when some of your non-Disney-fan friends mock the Disney brand? That because you're an adult and enjoy Disney, you're childish and a loser? It's that type of thinking that also spurred this film I think. It's spreading the outreach to audiences.


    But on that note, for the most part, I think adults strain over how children are affected by sexual content far more than children do themselves. I've had my Roger Rabbit movie since before I can remember, and I certainly didn't analyze it the way you and I do today...I just thought it was a fun movie. Jessica was beautiful and cool, Roger was funny, and that girl that was dressed like Jessica was creepy. I didn't strut around and wiggle my hips or the like. I can tell you that most little girls think the term "boobies" are funny before they get them It's kinda like the issue of the PC changes that were applied to Pirates of the Caribbean. I had a girl from my college tell me that college boys are rapists because the ride influenced them I'd really like to see a study done on that....but oh well.

    In any case, people place these over-the-top expectations on Disney to have the brand geared exactly a specific way, towards children, and for the brand to be completely innocent. Even in Walt's time, I don't think these expectations were ever met. I watch my old Disney films now and I discover a lot of things that went right over my head as a child but were clearly geared for an adult audience, or simply aren't "PC". I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Those that attempt to blame Disney for this or that fail to look at other outside influences as well. Our society is not just shaped by the Disney brand, and the Disney brand simply reflects our society with ever film it makes. Don't you tell me after watching Snow White that she isn't a stereotypical representation of women from her era!


    One last note...as much as parents don't want their children exposed to anything sexual, it's one thing to keep them safe, and it's another thing to keep them sexually repressed. We're sexual beings and mammals, as much as we all wish to deny it. Seeing a female character with curves, I think, isn't dangerous to a child's innocence. They're not watching porn. On the flip side, it can be noted to be just as dangerous for little girls to idolize these thin princesses, without an ounce of fat on their bodies, who are anatomically for the most part incorrect. So while one girl may want to look like Jessica and have breasts (and I hate to tell you, but I have yet to meet a single female that hasn't wanted them), another may want to have the body of Ariel and will starve herself to get there.
    Roger Rabbit is to me, a tribute to the crazier, zanier, non-PC Disney cartoons. There were alot of these made in the late 20s and early 30s, and also some after then. Watch some early Silly Symphonies and Mickey Mouse to get a sampling of this.

    I see no reason in sheilding kids from Jessica Rabbit, they see much worse on advertisements and in real life itself.

    A lot of the reasons I love Disney, is for the things the public would consider atypical of them. Walt was by no means a prude, I can't picture him making something as white-washed and goody-goody as the modern Disney channel is. Dumbo had a child drinking alcohol, Pinocchio had a child smoking, Snow White is practically a horror movie (stepmother tries to kill stepdaughter), and Fantasia has many scenes that would be considered risque and very frightening by very conservative audiences. POTC is by no means a goody-goody ride, there is dead people and a wench auction.

  8. #53

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict View Post
    I watch my old Disney films now and I discover a lot of things that went right over my head as a child but were clearly geared for an adult audience, or simply aren't "PC".
    So we can agree there is a definitive difference between implied sexual tension and overt sexual tension. It is the difference between Eric and Ariel kissing in a romantic boat, and Jessica crawling across the stage holding Eddie's tie. Is it possible that this was done on purpose? To allow the adult audience to enjoy the film, with the hidden jokes, while not crossing that line. Watch Shrek as a wonderful example of how this can be done! There is a big difference between implying something, and flaunting it. And like you said, kids are exposed to it all the time, so why should Disney cartoons carry this theme as well? Part of what makes Jessica so special is her look... but if you were to draw another princess in that fashion a lot of people would be pissed. FYI I also agreed with the "Blame the parents" concept because there is a certain amount of parental responsibility. However I can see how one can get that misconception when they see Bugs Bunny and Mickey holding hands and Eddie and Roger spinning in a car!

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHost2 View Post
    A lot of the reasons I love Disney, is for the things the public would consider atypical of them. Walt was by no means a prude, I can't picture him making something as white-washed and goody-goody as the modern Disney channel is. Dumbo had a child drinking alcohol, Pinocchio had a child smoking, Snow White is practically a horror movie (stepmother tries to kill stepdaughter), and Fantasia has many scenes that would be considered risque and very frightening by very conservative audiences. POTC is by no means a goody-goody ride, there is dead people and a wench auction.
    This is exactly what I referred to. A lot of what Walt did was either implied, comical or whimsical. Kid's didn't notice it for the most part. Everyone noticed Jessica, and that was done on purpose. Disney hasn't drawn anything close to her since, so it is possible that even they felt it was a bit over the line. Like I said personally I loved it.

    I don't believe in sexual repression, but I also feel there is something wrong about society advertising mini skirts to 7 year old girls. I was a little shocked at Barbie's current outfits this Christmas... and even more shocked at some of the new "fashions" including Tv shows. Sure you can blame society, also parents, I just feel there is probably a better age for this expression then 7.
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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post

    I don't believe in sexual repression, but I also feel there is something wrong about society advertising mini skirts to 7 year old girls. I was a little shocked at Barbie's current outfits this Christmas... and even more shocked at some of the new "fashions" including Tv shows. Sure you can blame society, also parents, I just feel there is probably a better age for this expression then 7.
    I am totally against little girls dressing to look like what society deems as "hot" and "sexy." You also wouldn't want a 7 year old girl to dress as Ariel (in mermaid form) either. She is practically naked except for two sea shells. Tinkerbell's skirt is awful short also.

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    "Thank you for your e-mail to the DISNEYLAND® Resort.

    Unfortunately, Roger Rabbit has very limited apprearances due to his
    demand. We apologize for any disappointment this may cause you and your
    family.

    (Character Finding Information)

    Again, thank you for taking the time to write. We hope you will have
    the opportunity to visit the DISNEYLAND® Resort soon and trust your visit
    will be pleasant in all regards.

    Sincerely,

    Linda Trump
    DISNEYLAND® Resort
    Guest Communications"

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Why didn't you ask about Jessica?
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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Why didn't you ask about Jessica?
    Why she isn't anywhere anymore too?

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by girrrtacos View Post
    "Thank you for your e-mail to the DISNEYLAND® Resort.

    Unfortunately, Roger Rabbit has very limited apprearances due to his
    demand. We apologize for any disappointment this may cause you and your
    family.

    (Character Finding Information)

    Again, thank you for taking the time to write. We hope you will have
    the opportunity to visit the DISNEYLAND® Resort soon and trust your visit
    will be pleasant in all regards.

    Sincerely,

    Linda Trump
    DISNEYLAND® Resort
    Guest Communications"

    HUH?!?!?! "Due to his demand"

    or do they mean "lack of requests?"

    I think Disney needs to work on that letter a little more.

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    HUH?!?!?! "Due to his demand"

    or do they mean "lack of requests?"

    I think Disney needs to work on that letter a little more.
    They talk about characters as Real People.
    For example- Roger Rabbit is a He, not an It.

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    Re: Roger Rabbit

    Quote Originally Posted by girrrtacos View Post
    Why she isn't anywhere anymore too?
    My take on this... if you are going to ask and most likely get a letter responding to it then go for the gold! Ask about Jessica, Roger, and every other character not created by Pixar... because anymore if it isn't classic, princess, or Pixar then good luck finding it!
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