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  1. #31

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post

    I'm not religious but I found the CP very touching. Being non-religious I could have been offended but I was able to see the true beauty of the event and realize that everything isn't about how I think.
    And this is where the "Its all about me" attitude is a real problem. We live in a society that says it is not fashionable to be racist, homophobic, moralistic, but the part of the 'me first' attitude that allows us to be offended at whatever is different from our beliefs or desires is really just another face of the bigotry problem.

    We can chose to be tolerant of the beliefs of others but we cannot do it if our attitude is 'me first'. 'Me first' is about others conforming to our ideals. Tolerance is not about being offended at the offensive but accepting the intolerance of others and the diversity caused by the viewpoints of others. I am far from perfect in accepting the offensive in others, and it has taken years to understand the concept of the tolerant man tolerating the intolerant. I am unable as of yet to practice it well but at least I am beginning to understand the logic of the concept.

    Disney is in a bad spot. There reason of existence is to make money, at its core the mission is devoid of morals. I understand from a business standpoint why they need to offend as little as possible, but the decision comes with costs that are hard to quantify. When Walt was the big stockholder and waver of the magic money wand he could offend if he thought it was required, but today the corporation is forced to march differently.
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  2. #32

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    See MiceChatters. While a good derailing can be fun, we really is smart sumtime.

  3. #33

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by mousechild View Post
    Disney is in a bad spot. There reason of existence is to make money, at its core the mission is devoid of morals. I understand from a business standpoint why they need to offend as little as possible, but the decision comes with costs that are hard to quantify. When Walt was the big stockholder and waver of the magic money wand he could offend if he thought it was required, but today the corporation is forced to march differently.
    I think it was ok in Walt's day, because people loved Walt, and didnt see Disney as this huge, money hungry corporation.
    Of course, 40 years later, things have become a bit skued. I'll agree with MC, Disney is in a bad spot. However, they are partly to blame for it. They have given in to a lot of the "PC" out crys. Which, to me, is just enabling people to find something else to whine about.

    "The moose say's you're closed, i say you're open" Clark W. Griswold

  4. #34

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    Exactly--not only the 'spooky' supernatural, but the spirituality associated with 'supernatural' experiences. Is this, to Disney, straying TOO CLOSE to religious commentary?
    Yes, to Disney I believe so. I believe the "spirituality" associated with the experiences is being removed or toned down. Especially, anything directed to God/s. On the other hand there are examples of religion in the park that have not been removed. How about the Menorah in the POTC?

    I just believe Disney has tried to alter based on Politcal Correctness. And in doing so, may make the ranters happy, but they cannot make everyone happy. It's a slippery slope ...

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    Tower of Terror perfectly illustrates this with ghost references throughout the queue and ride itself.
    Now, I've only been on Tower of Terror one time, so I may be wrong. But, honestly I vaguely recall an abundance of ghost references throughout the ride. I do recall the creepy, spook factor, which I loved. However, based on my knowledge of the ride, isn't it less about ghosts than it is about the "Twilight Zone?" This creepy, fantasy, horror, unknown black hole. On the other hand a guest unfamiliar with the "Twlight Zone," or a child, may only see the ghost part of it.
    Sparrow, Johnson, Skellington, Black, White, ... Daniels. I just love Jack's!

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  5. #35

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    See MiceChatters. While a good derailing can be fun, we really is smart sumtime.
    Being that these principles, I believe, were the impetus behind some of these changes, I don't see the discussion as 'off-topic' at all. Yet another example of short-sightedness:
    The removal of the 'Curse' in POTC, thereby removing the moral implications that are clearly present, and referred to directly by Marc Davis, was an injustice. An injustice brought about by the desire to please a wider audience and attain a broader appeal--to tap a market they believed was not being served: the POTC movie fans.

    And they did so unnecessarily; since the entire movie revolves around the curse itself. In their rush to shoe-horn in Davey Jones and Barbossa, they made room by eliminating key components to the 'moral' of our POTC story. Cat. Jack is the 'hero', so he must therefore succeed in finding the treasure and live happily ever after. Rubbish.

  6. #36

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by piratepixy View Post
    Now, I've only been on Tower of Terror one time, so I may be wrong. But, honestly I vaguely recall an abundance of ghost references throughout the ride. I do recall the creepy, spook factor, which I loved. However, based on my knowledge of the ride, isn't it less about ghosts than it is about the "Twilight Zone?" This creepy, fantasy, horror, unknown black hole. On the other hand a guest unfamiliar with the "Twlight Zone," or a child, may only see the ghost part of it.
    Well, the "haunted" elevator shaft became haunted from a group or people crashing to their doom from a lightning strike. Yes I know, it technically never says they DIE but falling 13 stories and never returning leads me to believe they croaked.

    The idea is they didn't die but went into the Twilight Zone and are now looking for you to join them. I say after 70 years, that bunch of people is pretty dead.

  7. #37

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    Being that these principles, I believe, were the impetus behind some of these changes, I don't see the discussion as 'off-topic' at all. Yet another example of short-sightedness:
    The removal of the 'Curse' in POTC, thereby removing the moral implications that are clearly present, and referred to directly by Marc Davis, was an injustice. An injustice brought about by the desire to please a wider audience and attain a broader appeal--to tap a market they believed was not being served: the POTC movie fans.

    And they did so unnecessarily; since the entire movie revolves around the curse itself. In their rush to shoe-horn in Davey Jones and Barbossa, they made room by eliminating key components to the 'moral' of our POTC story. Cat. Jack is the 'hero', so he must therefore succeed in finding the treasure and live happily ever after. Rubbish.
    This is a very relevant and interesting topic Fo'c'. I would not suggest otherwise.

  8. #38

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    And they did so unnecessarily; since the entire movie revolves around the curse itself. In their rush to shoe-horn in Davey Jones and Barbossa, they made room by eliminating key components to the 'moral' of our POTC story. Cat. Jack is the 'hero', so he must therefore succeed in finding the treasure and live happily ever after. Rubbish.
    They shoe-horned it in in a HAMFISTED manner.

    They could have fit Davy Jones AND Barbossa in and STILL make the cure work... And as mentioned previously, if Jack was musing at the end about how to get the treasure out without incurring the curse, the curse could be in tact that way as well.

  9. #39

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    I'd buy this thought, until I saw the Candlelight Procession. Disney's not afraid of Religion at all, just offending people.
    I forgot about the candlelight processional. Makes sense that Disney doesn't want to offend anyone, since that seems to be societies views of late, "don't offend, don't rock the boat..." etc. It's a shame that so many great rides are falling prey to this course of thought.
    <3 There are a million cupcakes in the world but only one is Cupcake Terror. <3

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  10. #40

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by fo'c's'le swab View Post
    Still there. At least during Baxter's tenure, I doubt we will see any changes to the Tiki Room. He regards this attraction as 'sacred ground' and off-the-table when it comes to alteration. But all decisions are not up to him, I should add.
    At least that part is still there. Now if only this would be the thought for more attractions in the park.

    A bit off topic, but I think they should change the POTC ladies being chased by pirates. Makes more sense and is more historic than the present representation.
    <3 There are a million cupcakes in the world but only one is Cupcake Terror. <3

    I AM THE REBEL SPY.



  11. #41

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by haunted_hottie View Post
    I forgot about the candlelight processional. Makes sense that Disney doesn't want to offend anyone, since that seems to be societies views of late, "don't offend, don't rock the boat..." etc. It's a shame that so many great rides are falling prey to this course of thought.
    Very true and good post HH.

    This thread may be a perfect example as to why Frontierland always gets forgotten when it comes to new rides and attractions. Many things about the old west were not very PC. This includes, Whiskey, Can-Can-girls, shooting guns etc.

    Fo'C' we always talk about the need for Frontierland to get some TLC. I wonder if this thread may shed some lighton the situation.

  12. #42

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Intersting concept. Another overtone -- MTWR especially the last scene. You may be right foc -- from what I understand Disney does not refer to this scene as hell but as to something else. I don't remember what though.

    Anyway, a friend in college took a course -- I forget what it was -- but an entire lecture was spent discussing all the religious and occult overtones present throughout the Disneyland. Don't worry Swab, there are actually so many I don't think WDI has the smarts to catch all of them. A couple I remember are the characters in the parking lot representing angels looking down from above and the presence of the magic shop and the fact that there is one there when there really doesn't have to -- some vague reference to the occult. I so wish I took that course. Oh well its 17 years later and all hope is gone for that.

  13. #43

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    I know, it technically never says they DIE but falling 13 stories and never returning leads me to believe they croaked.
    LOL! I had to say "thanks" for the chuckle! I can't argue there.
    Sparrow, Johnson, Skellington, Black, White, ... Daniels. I just love Jack's!

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  14. #44

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoBob View Post
    I think it was ok in Walt's day, because people loved Walt, and didnt see Disney as this huge, money hungry corporation.
    Of course, 40 years later, things have become a bit skued. I'll agree with MC, Disney is in a bad spot. However, they are partly to blame for it. They have given in to a lot of the "PC" out crys. Which, to me, is just enabling people to find something else to whine about.

    In Walt's day, they also had different ideas and views on the way things are. Racism was an everyday norm and society was laced into a specific way of looking at things. Hell, if the television told them something was good then it had to be (e.g.: smoking)

    If we could only make everyone see that Disney isn't out to offend or hurt anyone by what they exhibit in their parks, Disney-life would be much easier. We'd have the Candlelight Processional and a more detailed story for BTMRR and actual ghosts to make our rides more fun.
    <3 There are a million cupcakes in the world but only one is Cupcake Terror. <3

    I AM THE REBEL SPY.



  15. #45

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    Re: "Exorcism at DL", or "The Unhappy Medium"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate Lover 68 View Post
    They shoe-horned it in in a HAMFISTED manner.

    They could have fit Davy Jones AND Barbossa in and STILL make the cure work... And as mentioned previously, if Jack was musing at the end about how to get the treasure out without incurring the curse, the curse could be in tact that way as well.
    Agreed--if they had chosen to, the curse could have easily remained intact.

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