Keep Moving Forward

[Dirton]

...




I love MiceChat and have been here for awhile, but i just can't seem to understand all of the negativity that comes from the majority of the posters. Now lets not get confused about my feelings because I for one am all for bettering the parks. I love discussing how things could be better or what new things would work. But what I'm not a fan of is living in the past; the continual looking back at past attractions and venues. To me it goes against everything Walt wanted from the park. I love that new things move in and old things move out. It reminds me of a river that is always rushing fresh water through the river keeping it, clear, refreshing and cold. if the river to stop up and water was to become stagnant, it would become lukewarm, dirty and eventually dry up. Does anyone want this to happen to Disneyland? Sure there are things that we will miss, but Walt’s ideas were to keep moving forward, not dwelling on the past. Again, I'm not trying to bash anyone for missing old attractions or shows, or what have you, but to be so negative and down on Disney as a whole seems quite ludicrous.

[MsSarah]

Don't think of it as negativity, think of it as...the way of the micechatters...

[Dirton]

2009- The Year of Righting Wrongs

[yoyoflamingo]

I think the issue is not that things are being replaced, but that they are being replaced (if at all) with subpar attractions. I know that this is the case in Florida, and I think this is the main issue here. No one would question if attractions were replaced with things that wowed us, but to replace the Country Bears with the Winnie the Pooh attraction? Remove the Peoplemover and replace it with nothing? Move the Astro Orbiter to the ground for no reason? Those are the issues that the MCers are negative about, since that is not moving forward, but moving backward.

[mycroft16]

That's it exactly yoyoflamingo. We're not really upset about change... just that it has seemed to be a step backwards so often. Had Pooh been done like TDS here I think people would have been very pleased. It's the showmanship that we get negative about, not the change.

Sometimes though our nostalgia may become very strong to the point of easily being confused with negativity. I've been guilty of that a few times.

[aashee]

...




I love MiceChat and have been here for awhile, but i just can't seem to understand all of the negativity that comes from the majority of the posters. Now lets not get confused about my feelings because I for one am all for bettering the parks. I love discussing how things could be better or what new things would work. But what I'm not a fan of is living in the past; the continual looking back at past attractions and venues. To me it goes against everything Walt wanted from the park. I love that new things move in and old things move out. It reminds me of a river that is always rushing fresh water through the river keeping it, clear, refreshing and cold. if the river to stop up and water was to become stagnant, it would become lukewarm, dirty and eventually dry up. Does anyone want this to happen to Disneyland? Sure there are things that we will miss, but Walt’s ideas were to keep moving forward, not dwelling on the past. Again, I'm not trying to bash anyone for missing old attractions or shows, or what have you, but to be so negative and down on Disney as a whole seems quite ludicrous.

We all have different opinions and that's what makes this a great chat board. I'm of the other opinion. I think most posts are very nice and helpful. The difference in opinion comes when we start discussing what we think is best for the park. Of the 1000-2000 people that post regularly in the Disneyland Boards, I'd be shocked if anyone had the exact same opinion.

Here's the thing in talking about Disneyland being stagnant. Would removing Jungle Cruise, Peter Pan, Storybookland boats etc, make the park less stagnant? Heck Pirates and Haunted Mansion and the Matterhorn have been around for 40+ years should they go too?

That's the problem. Disagreeing with me or you isn't a wave of negativity, it's a discussion. Realizing it's opinion and no one is right will ease you mind quite a bit. Again, these are discussion boards. It can't be 100% happy threads or I and many other posters would lose interest. And dwelling on the past isn't a bad thing. In fact, the majority of the park was built with wonderful childhood memories as inspirations.

So let us curmudgeons have our time to enjoy our memories. Looking backwards isn't always a bad thing.

Chad

[Dirton]

But returning to those ideas would be moving backwards no matter how stale the idea or attraction is. If Pooh isn't working then replace it with something new, not old. (btw Pooh is loved by many and a definitely needed boost for an area that was horribly underused. I don't know if you remember the CCJB but wasn't exactly a highly utilized ride. Now at least younger ones with the parents have something to do if they are waiting for other family on Splash Mountain) I think a lot of complaining isn't thought completely through, because if it were they would see the massive amount of people that love Pooh, Tarzan, and other so called "misses".

I will say that the removal of the RR without a replacement attraction was not a good idea, but then again neither was having a circus in the park but Walt tried that idea. And really who knows what they are trying to work right now.

[yoyoflamingo]

When the Pooh attraction has a 7 minute wait on New Years Eve, I don't call it a hit. Plus, even if you compare the WDW Pooh and the DL Pooh, there are obvious cost cutting moves that were made. It's just a ride that is a shadow of what it could have been. And the country Bears may not have been as popular, but if you added Pooh into ONE of the 2 theaters for the Bears, then kept the Bears as well, I think many people would be happy.

And just saying "replace Pooh with something new" isn't as simple as it sounds. After investing all the money to change the theater into the attraction, they aren't going to admit failure so soon after it opens. Sometimes it takes years, and sometimes it takes the public's outcry to show how horrible an attraction is. Just look at Journey Into Your Imagination at EPCOT. So many fans despised the second version, they did redo it again. And while still not as popular or creative as the first one, it's still a slight improvement.

And I don't think there is anyone who would say that Innoventions is an improvement over ANY AA show that could have gone into the Carousel Theater.

[merlinjones]

Which reminds me - - they really do need to get Tomorrowland back in shape completely, put the Rocket Jets back up high where they belong, get something up on the PeopleMover track, finish painting, ditch the Astro-Orbitor, Observatron and wet marble. Get something decent in the Honey space, restore the Tahitian Terrace with hula girls and firedancers, bring some can-can dancing back to the Golden Horseshoe, fix the broken robots on the Rivers of America, restore the home of the Swiss Family Robinson, bring waterfalls back to Frontierland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland, find the Pirate Ship and Skull Rock, get the Electrical Parade back on Main Street, get Sleeping Beauty's castle open again and put life back in the Plaza Gardens and Motor Boat areas and drag the Country Bears out of hibernation and fix the Pooh ride - - then we can start talking about some new and exciting stuff for undeveloped property.

None of these changes or lapses were "progress," they were destruction of art that belongs to all of us. Fix it AND go forward - - these are not mutually exlusive except to mere bean counters.

[aashee]

That's the thing Dirton, who knows.

I'd like to say complaining about a ride being stale is no different from complaining about bringing an old ride back. A complaint is a complaint and if you hate seeing it on the chat board so much, maybe you shouldn't complain either. You see, one person's complaint is another person's suggestion. Can't have you cake and eat it too.

[BroncoBob]

Which reminds me - - they really do need to get Tomorrowland back in shape completely, put the Rocket Jets back up high where they belong, get something up on the PeopleMover track, finish painting, ditch the Astro-Orbitor, Observatron and wet marble. Get something decent in the Honey space, restore the Tahitian Terrace with hula girls and firedancers, bring some can-can dancing back to the Golden Horseshoe, fix the broken robots on the Rivers of America, restore the home of the Swiss Family Robinson, bring waterfalls back to Frontierland, Fantasyland and Tomorrowland, find the Pirate Ship and Skull Rock, get the Electrical Parade back on Main Street, get Sleeping Beauty's castle open again and put life back in the Plaza Gardens and Motor Boat areas and drag the Country Bears out of hibernation and fix the Pooh ride - - then we can start talking about some new and exciting stuff for undeveloped property.

None of these changes or lapses were "progress," they were destruction of art that belongs to all of us. Fix it AND go forward - - these are not mutually exlusive except to mere bean counters.

Well said MJ....

[sediment]

Meh. I hate all the positive things that are written here, and the light-reading, "what's your favorite ride?" threads.

So, we're even.

As for Pooh, that was a prior management's decision. Easy to admit someone else's failures. That's practically every new management's job. That's what Pressler did, and look how well he looks for it.

[Witches of Morva]

ORDDU: You need to also keep in mind, Dirton, duckling, that for every so-called 'negative' opinion expressed, there are also many positive opinions expressed. You really can't expect others to muzzle themselves from stating what they think about various aspects of the parks or the movies, etc. That's the wonderful thing about free expression. Now, if someone is being deliberately mean and cruel in the way they express themselves, or talking down to someone whom they disagree with, that's certainly nothing worth supporting. But, over all, this is meant to be a place where ducklings--such as yourself--come to vent how they feel about things or to share rumors or to just have fun. But of course you already knew all of that. I'm simply putting things back into perspective for you.

ORWEN: Hugs and kisses from Morva!

ORGOCH: Got more ta say?

[Dirton]

My comment more or less has been taken out of context. I'm saying that it's not that ones are unhappy with certain aspects of Disneyland, it's that they post, thread after thread, not with progressive ideas, or in effect ideas that move forward, but scream from the depths of nostalgia.

for example: Mr Merlinjones stated several things he'd like to see change, which some are actually positive and helpful like "fix the broken robots on the Rivers of America" which draws attention to a much needed fix. But then on the other, more common spectrum make comments like "restore the home of the Swiss Family Robinson" which is in now way likely and in reality a poor decision seeing that it is outdated in most people's views.

See what i'm saying is that Walt's idea was to move forward regardless of the outcome. Some things fail. You give it a go and when you've exhausted all your options, you move on to a new idea.

We've see a lot of changes over the years and I for one wouldn't want the CCJB back at the cost of a new idea. I love the Pooh ride, and I do miss the CCJB, but not for one minute do i think they shouldn't have tried something new.

[mousechild]

But the ideas you just expressed are your ideas and your opinion based on your own experience and tastes. Other people have opinions that are different. If you are willing to engage them in conversation and discuss and sometimes even argue you may find that you have new ideas or they may change their mind. And it is even possible that you may learn something from them.

Good luck.