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  1. #1

    • Northwest Disneyphile
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    The unpopular Walt thread

    This post will be one of the hardest things I will ever write, granted I am not a writer by trade but still…

    Things I have read on this and other message boards this week include: The question “Is the magic slipping?” and that EPCOT as we know it today is the perfect example of what happened when Walt Disney died.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athlonacon
    ...Take for example EPCOT, Disney found there was no profit to be made in it so they turned Walt's new pet project into a theme park.
    And
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlonacon
    …But Epcot today is a modern-day example of what happened when Walt died...his ideas and ideals died with him.
    I would like to start of by saying that in this post I mean not to insult anybody who I may quote or reference in any other form.

    This last spring as part of my radio broadcasting class I was given the assignment to write and produce a thirty-minute radio show on the history of Disneyland.

    Naturally I leapt the chance and starting going threw all the book and web sites I could find on the subject. As I neared my due date I started to think about the man responsible for the whole thing, and I decide that if Walt Disney had not died when he did and lived on for another 5 years, history would not remember him the way it dose today.

    I honestly believe Walt was slowly going insane over the years. Lets look at the idea behind EPCOT as Walt envisioned it. It was his last frontier. He had spent all his live controlling things. Starting with animated film moving on to actors in movies, later out-door landscapes and even creating life with Audio-Animatronics. Why not see if he could control the place people actually live and work and play.

    Don’t get me wrong I’m not one of those people who think he was a Nazi I also don’t think his head is frozen some place. I admire the man I put him down on my list of heroes, I love Disneyland and I think Walt Disney was a great storyteller in movies, film and television and also in theme parks. I just think it is unfair to say that the Disney product is poor for his passing.

    You may now tare me apart.
    Broadway Duchess, Darling if you only knew half as much as everybody thinks you do




  2. #2

    • Sock Puppet
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    Quote Originally Posted by yensid1987
    granted I am not a writer by trade but still…
    LOL, judging by all the spelling and grammatical errors I would certainly have to agree.

  3. #3

    • Lurker
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    I really don't think Walt was going insane or mentally unstable or what have you. If you look back into history you will find all sorts of people who envisioned Utopian societies. Where do think we got Communism from? It was someone's vision of a perfect society.

  4. #4

    • Minion
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    Insane... that's what they called him when he risked losing his house to create an hour-long cartoon. . .

  5. #5

    • insufferable know-it-all
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    yensid: the man was a visionary. Some of his visions were great (feature length cartoon, Disneyland), some not so great (Disneyland Circus).

    What Walt is remembered for has as much to do with having the guts to follow through on his visions without worrying about whether this next time would be the one that flopped. Great men take risks to see their vision through. Doesn't mean their vision is always correct.

    You also need to take into account the time he lived in. Society goes through many cycles (I wish I could remember the name of the book to refer you to, but bear with me). One generation builds up the establishment, the next generation believes in it but takes it too far, the following generation rebels against it, the following generation takes rebellion against establishment too far, and the next generation builds up the establishment, etc. Walt came from the generation that had grown up with establishment, and believed in it. In that context, it would not be ridiculous that he would come up with a city so entrenched in the establishment as EPCOT.

    Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe...



  6. #6

    • 'Taint sure it's puddin!
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    ^^^^^^^^^

    What she said......
    "Search the boat...."
    First works spoken by Captain Nemo (James Mason) in the Disney classic - 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea

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  7. #7

    • The Unknown Princess
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    Isn't there a saying that says "There is a fine line between insanity and genius?"

  8. #8

    • Rock Star Minion
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    Walt had a lot of ideas. It takes some real guts to tell him sometimes, "No." That's what Roy was for.

    You look at original EPCOT and say, Wow, pretty cool city! And then someone says, How does this make ANY money?
    Seemed more like a civics project than a fantasy-making company's project.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  9. #9

    • Hooterville, USA
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    Even smart guys make mistakes.


    This has been a Filmways presentation dahling.

  10. #10

    • Social Imagineer
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Morrigoon again.
    And EPCOT not a money-making project? How so? Landlord for coveted residential and business locations? How is there no money in that?

  11. #11

    • Mousketeer
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    Quote Originally Posted by innerSpaceman
    And EPCOT not a money-making project? How so? Landlord for coveted residential and business locations? How is there no money in that?
    There is money now, but not then. Orlando was a swampy area that no one wanted to live in. It's only been since WDW opened and that, coupled with the influx of retirees from the north into the area that has made it become more and more popular.

    If a planned community like that is such a great moneymaking idea, why don't you see if you can get someone to invest in the idea. you could build it somewhere in southern utah or nevada and see if people flock to it.

    We don't really know what Epcot would have been like had Walt been around to finish it. it may have failed. But it would have been something to see.

  12. #12

    • Minion
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    One of the biggest problems with the world today is it is run by the so-called "rational" people, the unemotional, logical, uninspired, unimaginitive, mature, risk averse, systems oriented, Ivy League MBA, politically correct, template serving, survey taking, trendoid robotrons whose eyebrows have ceased to function by design - - to the exclusion of the crazy dreamers and eccentrics who have pushed us all to new levels and delighted our souls and illuminated our lives.

    Let's hear it for those "touched" by alternative vision...
    Last edited by merlinjones; 08-02-2005 at 12:35 PM.

  13. #13

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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yendorb
    There is money now, but not then. Orlando was a swampy area that no one wanted to live in. It's only been since WDW opened and that, coupled with the influx of retirees from the north into the area that has made it become more and more popular.
    What a circular bit of logic that is!

    Of course, Epcot was conceived to exist post-Walt Disney World opening, as it was to be a part of Walt Disney World. I'm not saying it wasn't risky, perhaps even more risky than a theme park. But if Walt Disney World itself was to be successful, then Epcot could be equally successful.

  14. #14

    • Disney worshipper/geek
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    Well, what's to say about where the project would have gone? PotC was suppossed to be a bloody wax mueseum!
    I also don't like how you put Walt's interest as "controlling" everything. It was obviously not only his idea, how else would they have gotten anywhere? Look at Progress City at the end of the Carousel of Progress. It is relatively similar, I believe, to the later idea of EPCOT, and it seemed pretty popular. It's not a question of "control" as much as making conditions more make things easier for people. You say it as if Walt's master plan was to control all of life, which I seriously doubt was the idea.
    Last thing, assumming because people's opinions and ideas seem a little far-fetched doesn't mean they are starting to slip.

    P.S. I agree with Magic Mirror about you spelling and grammar, you really should think about rereading before you post.
    My mind won't rest
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  15. #15

    • FastPass n00b
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    Re: The unpopular Walt thread

    I actually don't think Walt was going certifiably insane, but I do believe that from the very beginning he took *enormous* risks and had outlandish ideas that many people would consider to be insane. But as for losing his mind, I don't think he was, he always strived for bigger and better ideas. He started out doing cartoons, then full-length animated features, then theme parks, then entire cities. Each and every time he tried something much bigger and riskier. He was such a big dreamer that once he achieved his dream and made it a reality, he needed to dream of something bigger because his dream was no longer a dream.

    I think that merlinjones has an excellent point, our society demands conformity and when that conformity has been broken, society demands that a reason be accounted for. Our society has become so rational and conformist that when someone actually breaks the mold, they are labelled as crackpots and lunatics. Now, this is nothing new, the Wright brothers were ostracized from the scientific community and labeled as crackpots chasing pseudoscience at the turn of the 20th century. At the time it was believed that nothing heavier than air could fly! Today we know how ridiculous that notion is (it's like claiming the Earth is flat), but the Wright brothers, as ingenius as they were, were ousted out of society even though they knew the truth about flight! So the labels that society attach to people who think outside the box are often totally misleading.

    Hey, I like this, that yensid1987 went out on a limb and did something that he knew would be kind of unpopular. That takes a lot of guts, especially on the Internet.

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