Save the Rainforest - Keep "it's a small world" a classic.

[thrax]

god just the very idea of this makes me wanna vomit

[Sir.Mouse]

Sorry in advance if the information has already been posted.

but does any one have WDI's mailing address? And can any one tell me if it would be appropriate to contact Ed Grer? if so how can I do it???

thanks in advance.

[Melonballer]

Originally Posted by Sir.Mouse

Sorry in advance if the information has already been posted.

but does any one have WDI's mailing address? And can any one tell me if it would be appropriate to contact Ed Grer? if so how can I do it???

thanks in advance.

Yes. it was in post #1 and here it is again.

W R I T E
Walt Disney Company
Attn: Robert Iger
500 S. Buena Vista St.
Burbank, CA 91521-9722

Walt Disney Imagineering
Attn: Tony Baxter
1401 Flower Street
P.O. Box 25020
Glendale, CA 91221-502

Disneyland Resort
Attn: Ed Grier
1313 South Harbor Blvd.
Anaheim , CA 92802

[Sir.Mouse]

it was in post #1??!! how embarrassing of me. I didn't check. Thank you however...

[techskip]

Given enough time and public support, a letter writing campaign could work... look at Jericho!

[twobluestripes]

thanks for the info, MG! i don't have a ton of hope that this change can be stopped, but that doesn't mean it's not worth trying! and even if it isn't stopped, we can hope that it's altered and kept more subtle.

to the naysayers who don't bother because they know if won't make a difference... do you not vote, just because you are a tiny percentage of the population? do you not help someone or give to charity or perform little acts of kindness because you think it won't make a difference in the long run? the reality is that every little bit helps, and every opinion, no matter how small, can add up to a big idea.

i think that small world is a significant enough piece of culture to object to at least the removal of the rainforest / insertion of america, and this is a big enough deal to deserve to have opinions heard on these changes.

[patattack]

By not voicing your opinion you have no right to complain if you are disgusted with the outcome of Disneys decision.

When will they learn to respect the originals and classics? If your going to mess with rides do it at WDW. Disneyland is the original and should be treated as such.

[dl1955pounds]

By not voicing your opinion you have no right to complain if you are disgusted with the outcome of Disneys decision.

Well, actually, guests do have the right to complain, and for two reasons.

Firstly, people can be surprised by an unexpectedly bad redo, and may very well be disgusted. That was my reaction to Tomorrowland in 1998. How was I supposed to expect this? Tomorrowland '67, as "artistic" as some want to call it, was an outdated, run-down, and depressing area of the park in the 1990's. Florida's 1995 redo was really good, and I was surprised by the downgrades done to DL's in 1998. Should I have complained beforehand, and made sure Disney would keep selling Moonburgers, and encourage them to bank the Rocket Rods track?

Secondly, to the tens of thousands of paying visitors daily, very, very few people care enough, or even know enough, to write a complaint about the potential changes to a ride that is posted on a rumor website. To your average guest, and even an optimistic Disney fan, the response is likely to be, "Neat, I look forward to seeing what they do. I just got off Pirates/Space/Subs/Whatever, and it'd be cool if they upgrade it like they did to those rides." If it the ride turns out to be a mess, it's a disappointment, but a petition every single time a ride is rumored to be changed can be cumbersome.

to the naysayers who don't bother because they know if won't make a difference... do you not vote, just because you are a tiny percentage of the population?

A vote is a quantitative and direct measure of provoking change, and I honestly disagree with the analogy. A vote for Obama in the primaries will directly increase his standing against Clinton. An angry letter to Disney with regard to an unofficial article posted on a rumor website, which represents an extremely small percentage of Disneyland's visitors, will not have any effect at all.

If you are a Disney manager, and you see that a ride is going to be upgraded, your decision will not be affected by 5% of the park visitors, who are so dedicated to the park that they will still visit regardless of changes.

In the years of Pressler and Harriss, when internet columnists like Al Lutz, Kevin Yee, and Jim Hill heavily panned the resort, and Disney fans (Including myself) were in great agreement that park conditions had severely declined, the amount of Annual Passes purchased skyrocketed, as did the Disney online fan community. These were admittedly influenced by cheaper passes and the spread of the internet, but such a following couldn't happen if these fans were not severely dedicated.

Ultimately, the Small World upgrade will not make the majority of posters in this thread visit the park any less. If someone wants to make a poll thread about the topic, I would encourage it.

Even if the majority of posters decide to stop visiting Disneyland because an incoherent, hacked up ride segment from the World's Fair were to be removed, the loss of these customers would be far offset by the giant attendance jump by a crowd that wants to see an updated IASW. It may even grow new fans, who are impressed with how Disney can tastefully update a 42 year old ride. If a finicky customer is willing to stop visiting over minor changes to this ride, it's very likely that the next thing Disney does will push them over anyway. There was a large group in 2005 saying that they'd stop going if Lincoln doesn't come back. And the same for the Pirates redo. And even the same for the Dream Suite. I still see many/most of these people posting on Disney boards with trip reports, or petitions to bring back the Peoplemover, Skyway, Holidayland, Satellite View of America, or whatever the controversy de jure is.

Case in point, this survey process is a waste of time, and unless Disney fans are willing to stop visiting the parks in mass numbers, you're really just hurting Disney - they have to pay people to read these letters.

[pussnboots]

Originally Posted by patattack

By not voicing your opinion you have no right to complain if you are disgusted with the outcome of Disneys decision.

Well that's a bit extreme, don't you think?

[BigPigletFan]

Originally Posted by patattack

By not voicing your opinion you have no right to complain if you are disgusted with the outcome of Disneys decision.

When will they learn to respect the originals and classics? If your going to mess with rides do it at WDW. Disneyland is the original and should be treated as such.

Haha, no. How about they just don't mess with it unless its a GOOD idea? If this change does continue through then the MK will be the only IASW close to the classic one we grew up to within reach of most of us. (But in saying that it is is a stretch. They are quite different in their show scenes, etc.)

[BassBone]

Anyone think we should make up some Save the Rainforest posters and tack 'em up on the construction walls outside IASW?

[Sir.Mouse]

I was thinking about that last night. must be a good idea.

I remember writing to Disney about something at the time, I thought only I cared about. It was about DCA and at the end I wrote this charming number...

"I'm only one person with one voice, but I do believe in magic..."

So I knew my letter would have little influence but I valued the fact that I voiced my opinion. weather plans are canceled are irrelevant to me, I just want Disney to be aware.

[roxystar68]

Although I would hate to see this happen, I'm honestly not surprised. Sometime last year I made that banner with Jack Sparrow invading IASW. At that time, I was just mocking Disney's choice to put him in PotC (I don't have a problem with Capt. Jack anymore), but it's pretty ironic that this is happening.

[twobluestripes]

A vote is a quantitative and direct measure of provoking change, and I honestly disagree with the analogy. A vote for Obama in the primaries will directly increase his standing against Clinton. An angry letter to Disney with regard to an unofficial article posted on a rumor website, which represents an extremely small percentage of Disneyland's visitors, will not have any effect at all.

If you are a Disney manager, and you see that a ride is going to be upgraded, your decision will not be affected by 5% of the park visitors, who are so dedicated to the park that they will still visit regardless of changes.

In the years of Pressler and Harriss, when internet columnists like Al Lutz, Kevin Yee, and Jim Hill heavily panned the resort, and Disney fans (Including myself) were in great agreement that park conditions had severely declined, the amount of Annual Passes purchased skyrocketed, as did the Disney online fan community. These were admittedly influenced by cheaper passes and the spread of the internet, but such a following couldn't happen if these fans were not severely dedicated.

Ultimately, the Small World upgrade will not make the majority of posters in this thread visit the park any less. If someone wants to make a poll thread about the topic, I would encourage it.

Even if the majority of posters decide to stop visiting Disneyland because an incoherent, hacked up ride segment from the World's Fair were to be removed, the loss of these customers would be far offset by the giant attendance jump by a crowd that wants to see an updated IASW. It may even grow new fans, who are impressed with how Disney can tastefully update a 42 year old ride. If a finicky customer is willing to stop visiting over minor changes to this ride, it's very likely that the next thing Disney does will push them over anyway. There was a large group in 2005 saying that they'd stop going if Lincoln doesn't come back. And the same for the Pirates redo. And even the same for the Dream Suite. I still see many/most of these people posting on Disney boards with trip reports, or petitions to bring back the Peoplemover, Skyway, Holidayland, Satellite View of America, or whatever the controversy de jure is.

Case in point, this survey process is a waste of time, and unless Disney fans are willing to stop visiting the parks in mass numbers, you're really just hurting Disney - they have to pay people to read these letters.

Okay, if you want to get technical over that one analogy...

True, a letter of opinion to Disney voicing sadness over the insertion of Disney characters and an America portion in IASW might not be equal to placing a vote in an election. In an election, you do know with (almost) perfect certainty that your vote will hold a certain amount of sway over the final decision, and that the amount it holds will be equal to every other vote. (On second thought, this does not apply to every kind of election. For instance, in the recent primaries, those who voted for a candidate who late dropped out of the race no longer have a say in who their party's nomination will go to. The only way they could have an equal vote would be if they got to re-submit their ballot to vote for one of the remaining runners, and that's not logistically feasible.)

However, we cannot judge the amount of influence a letter to Disney has, because Disney has not defined it. We can assume it will be handled in a way that a celebrity might handle fan mail; that is, someone will read it at some point, and if they deem it interesting or relevant or touching, it gets passed up the chain where the cycle will begin again. If it holds enough merit, it may reach someone whose opinion holds an influence at Disney. If Disney wishes to find out the opinions or feelings of its fans and consumers on a certain topic, any mail pertaining to that topic might be kept and sorted, or even tallied.

In this way, depending on the type of information from letters than Disney is interested in gleaning, a letter may have absolutely no power at all (tossed straight to the recycling bin), or it may have quite a bit of power. I would venture to guess that more people vote in presidential elections than write letters to Disney concerning a certain topic, so (if Disney is interested in finding out what their fans think of said certain topic) a letter to Disney could potentially have even more power than a vote for a presidential candidate.

Now, I'm not saying that Disney has a single care about what Disneyland fans think of the potential changes to IASW. But it's not at all impossible. There is a chance that they DO care, and then the saying that every voice counts holds true. Neither you nor I nor anyone on Micechat can know for sure if they will take any opinions expressed in letters on this matter, so why not err on the side of caution, and send one just in case they do? It's worth a try, even if it ends up having no effect at least you know you spoke out.

So, of course an election isn't a completey accurate analogy, but it's not a complete inaccurate one either. Because, like in an election, every letter has at least the potential to hold a tiny piece of the power.

(And you're not exactly sitting on the throne of analogies yourself, dl1955pounds! If memory serves, you recently compared the fan-drawing power of Ed Grier to a DL 50th Anniversary Ceremony. )

As to the second point, did anyone say that they would visit the park less than they do now solely because of the IASW changes? If so, please point me towards the post, because I have not taken the time to read this massive thread. You provided compelling examples that attendance would not decline because of the changes, but I don't recall suggesting that it would, and I don't see that anyone else has said it since my post (or indeed even on this page). I know that it won't affect my own attendance; yes, I do really care, but once it's done I'm not going to get all huffy about it.

EDIT: I see now that you replied to someone in a post a few pages back who claimed they and their family would not renew if these changes were made. Since then, however, no one else has pretended that they would attend the park less because of this, so why bring it up again at all?

[twobluestripes]

Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict

Personally, I always thought an American section was not created because America is made up of everyone else and then put together in a big melting pot. The fact that all of the other countries represented and then finding the Native American and the cowboy made a nod to that idea (then again, the Native Americans were here first, so perhaps they deserve a little more recognition than they currently have...).

I haven't seen much about the inconsistency of adding a USA section on this thread, so I guess I'll start a dialog about it.

Your melting pot theory is very intriguing; it's like a ride though the various heritage of Americans! (In this case, I'd very much like to see Native Americans represented more, and maybe a bit of North American flora and fauna)

I always thought that since it was a "cruise" around the world (the happiest cruise that ever sailed!), that the premise was that you are IN America already, and that you are leaving it when you enter IASW, you go around the globe, and when you come back out of the show building you are returning to America.

This is why America is not featured! It's a cruise for those currently in Disneyland, Anaheim, CA, USA to see the world.

Originally Posted by pineapplewhipaddict

I said this in the other thread, but if the Disney characters come through, I really hope they are styled the Mary Blair way...after all, she did concept art for films like Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan.

This is a genius idea, my friend. The art direction of the ride is so specific that I think that was what was bothering me most! It's not just that Disney characters don't fit into the ride thematically, because now that you suggest this, I see that they could fit very well aesthetically! I can just imagine Mary Blair's Alice and Peter concept art sliding right in alongside her children of the world.
If this were so, I think that the addition of the characters would not bother me one bit. I would be ecstatic to see respect for Blair's designs and style still living in the park!