Save the Rainforest - Keep "it's a small world" a classic.

[lazyboy97O]

Originally Posted by twobluestripes

This is a genius idea, my friend. The art direction of the ride is so specific that I think that was what was bothering me most! It's not just that Disney characters don't fit into the ride thematically, because now that you suggest this, I see that they could fit very well aesthetically! I can just imagine Mary Blair's Alice and Peter concept art sliding right in alongside her children of the world.
If this were so, I think that the addition of the characters would not bother me one bit. I would be ecstatic to see respect for Blair's designs and style still living in the park!

They will be done in style. Still does not completely change the focus of the attraction. To deny the shift in focus would be to deny what is being said about the Hong Kong Disneyland attraction. This is absolutely, 100%, knowing perversion of the attraction and exploitation of Mary Blair's distinctive style. If Disney wants to introduce characters they should actually create something like they love to pretend they do.

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by dl1955pounds

Case in point, this survey process is a waste of time, and unless Disney fans are willing to stop visiting the parks in mass numbers, you're really just hurting Disney - they have to pay people to read these letters.

From governments to art, in large issues and small, reform has always been effected by a disempowered, passionate, idealistic, vocal minority, over the resistance of an entrenched, empowered majority.

Throughout history the reasons given that protesters can't succeed, and thus should cease their harmful activities, are legion. They're well represented in this thread and anywhere the proposed IASW changes are being protested.

[techskip]

I completely agree that Disney should respect the classics. I feel they should restore Small World to it's original condition. I know a lot of locals who probably miss those orange trees! As to the shirt...

[dl1955pounds]

Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins

From governments to art, in large issues and small, reform has always been effected by a disempowered, passionate, idealistic, vocal minority, over the resistance of an entrenched, empowered majority.

Throughout history the reasons given that protesters can't succeed, and thus should cease their harmful activities, are legion. They're well represented in this thread and anywhere the proposed IASW changes are being protested.

Right. In the American Revolution, the citizens of this country used guns and physical force to rebel. The Civil Rights movement involved massive amounts of people marching and congregating in public property.

If you bring a weapon to Disneyland, you will be arrested. If you start congregating and making a scene in the middle of the park, you will be thrown out. Disneyland is not a government-owned territory, it is private property that can ignore the complaints of a small minority. Even if the Disney fans did manage to physically overtake the park, a SWAT team would come in and throw them all in jail. So, the point is, Disneyland cannot be compared to a historical government overtaking.

The best you can do is to invest in Disney, and encourage stockholders to vote down the board of directors. Still, you will be ignored, because the company is doing very well, and there's no reason to overthrow the CEO again.

Originally Posted by twobluestripes

We can assume it will be handled in a way that a celebrity might handle fan mail; that is, someone will read it at some point, and if they deem it interesting or relevant or touching, it gets passed up the chain where the cycle will begin again. If it holds enough merit, it may reach someone whose opinion holds an influence at Disney. If Disney wishes to find out the opinions or feelings of its fans and consumers on a certain topic, any mail pertaining to that topic might be kept and sorted, or even tallied.

Alright, I concede, I agree with this. There is a small chance that someone in management may have a heart for this group, and try to put something together. The best outcome would likely be a couple Country Bear characters mounted in the ride somewhere, or an Eeyore parking lot sign.

Neither you nor I nor anyone on Micechat can know for sure if they will take any opinions expressed in letters on this matter, so why not err on the side of caution, and send one just in case they do? It's worth a try, even if it ends up having no effect at least you know you spoke out.

Well, this is where I was saying, change could very well be good, and I'd rather not err on the side of complaining every time a ride is upgraded. If the complaint letters really were to have an effect, then any change in the parks would constantly be stifled by a group of conservative Disney fans. The 2006 Pirates changes were really good and widely embraced by the public. If some fans had their way, these changes never would have happened. I would hate to see the park's headliners fade into oblivion because a small group refuses to see a ride get changed.

(And you're not exactly sitting on the throne of analogies yourself, dl1955pounds! If memory serves, you recently compared the fan-drawing power of Ed Grier to a DL 50th Anniversary Ceremony. )

I was not implying that 20,000 guests would flood an Ed Grier event. I was insinuating that even a small, small fraction of that group would completely overrun the event we were talking about. I did not try to compare the quantity, but simply the fact that dedicated fans in groups could overrun that 100-person event.

Since then, however, no one else has pretended that they would attend the park less because of this, so why bring it up again at all?

Because these fans make no difference to Disney's results. If Best Buy angers a customer, the customer might take their business to Circuit City. In the case of Disney, if one of these "fans" is angry, he or she will continue coming back, at no loss to the park.

It really doesn't matter, and as Disney sees thousands of new guests paying to see an updated ride, a group of angry message board posters will have zero effect on the company. This "small vocal minority" will surely be related to Martin Luther King, Gandhi, and other people who have "risen up" against governments, but once again, Disneyland is a private theme park. A small group of angry customers who continue to give the park money are completely irrelevant to the decision-making process. Even if these fans do stop visiting because Small World gets upgraded, new fans will be created by an updated ride, and Disney will no longer have to deal with placating a group of finicky customers. It's really a lose-lose situation if you hate when Disneyland is modernized.

[DisneyIPresume]

Originally Posted by dl1955pounds

Right. In the American Revolution, the citizens of this country used guns and physical force to rebel. The Civil Rights movement involved massive amounts of people marching and congregating in public property.

If you bring a weapon to Disneyland, you will be arrested. If you start congregating and making a scene in the middle of the park, you will be thrown out. Disneyland is not a government-owned territory, it is private property that can ignore the complaints of a small minority. Even if the Disney fans did manage to physically overtake the park, a SWAT team would come in and throw them all in jail. So, the point is, Disneyland cannot be compared to a historical government overtaking.

One of the things that sprung forth from the American Revolution was all of our rights to be able to peacefully congregate to express our opinion. Granted overtaking DL is not the best idea as Disney also has the right to kick us out. However holding such a protest on the sidewalk of Harbor Blvd is completely legal provided the proper permits are obtained and the protest is kept peaceful. As much as Disney wouldn't want these people there, there is nothing they can do about it because at that point the protesters have the constitution that allows them to be there.

[InnerSpace]

I really don't see the big deal for these changes. Yes, the Rain Forest has been apart of the attraction since it opened, but does anyone know what area of the world it represents? Africa? Asia? Oceania? Why is the Rain Forest scene so important that we just HAVE to keep it? Why would a room dedicated to our own country be so bad? Europe gets not one, but two big rooms! Asia gets a giant room. Africa gets a big room. All of Latin America gets a big room. Oceania gets a giant room. And you, so called, "Disney purists (?)" are mad because America is getting a very relatively small room of which boats will pass through in less than in a minute? The only thing I'm not jumping for joy is the Disney characters. So what if we get a little Americana in Small World...BIG DEAL!

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by InnerSpace

I really don't see the big deal for these changes. Yes, the Rain Forest has been apart of the attraction since it opened, but does anyone know what area of the world it represents? Africa? Asia? Oceania?

Papua New Guinea.

Originally Posted by InnerSpace

Why is the Rain Forest scene so important that we just HAVE to keep it? Why would a room dedicated to our own country be so bad? Europe gets not one, but two big rooms! Asia gets a giant room. Africa gets a big room. All of Latin America gets a big room. Oceania gets a giant room. And you, so called, "Disney purists (?)" are mad because America is getting a very relatively small room of which boats will pass through in less than in a minute? The only thing I'm not jumping for joy is the Disney characters. So what if we get a little Americana in Small World...BIG DEAL!

The Re-Imagineering blog summed up why America is an unnecessary feature in the show:

In consciously excluding a large scale U.S.A.-land from It’s a Small World (a lone cowboy and indian in the finale was just enough), the original show writers were asking American audiences to step away from their own national consciousness and take stock in the wider world around them. It’s a Small World was never about nationalistic fervor. It was about finding our common humanity outside our own borders.

[Ride Warrior]

Originally Posted by Club 33 Mike

Funny to think that the minds at Disney can be changed by a group of hard core Disney fanatics that probably make up way less than 1% of that parks attendance. Online pettitions, blogs, and emails wont do anything. .

If you add veniger and oil, these things are delicious. They clear the sinuses too.

Originally Posted by Club 33 Mike

Does anyone actually think that Disney would stop whatever changes they are making right in the middle of the project, and reverse course? .

Disney will stop the changes for anyone that buys 50 or more Annual Passes.

Originally Posted by Club 33 Mike

Sorry to bring reality to this situation, but whats done, is done. If the general public finds the new version of the ride to be crap, then they will stop riding it. At that point when the turnstyle clicks plumment, then they will change. Think of it like Pirates Lair, most every hard core Disney fan on this site hates what they did, but if you look at the numbers, that island is as popular as ever.

Don't you go messing with my fantasy now. I love the scene where Minnie gives Mickey a lapdance...and Mick becomes the biggest sensation in Small World.

[WDI33]

I don't think that anyone has brought up he very important point that the rainforest scene was created especially for Disneyland when the show was moved from NY to CA. It would be sad to see the one area that was not shown in New York, but created just for Disneyland to disappear! I would say that fact alone should merit its remaining in the show!

[Melonballer]

I just finished my letter and will be mailing it tomorrow. For those who say it won't work, that's what they told us nearly 10 years ago when a group of animation fans got together and started a letter writing campaign. We convinced Disney to change their plans then, so if enough people write now, we might be successful now.

[dl1955pounds]

I just finished my letter and will be mailing it tomorrow. For those who say it won't work, that's what they told us nearly 10 years ago when a group of animation fans got together and started a letter writing campaign. We convinced Disney to change their plans then, so if enough people write now, we might be successful now.

Are you referring to Disney's commitment to CGI in the early 2000's? If not, disregard this post completely, but this is the only issue that I can think of off the top of my head.

My understanding is that the Disney "purists" had nothing to do with the change. If any individual had a real impact on feature animation, it would be Roy Disney's campaign, which caused stockholders to vote down Eisner... not angry letters from Disney fans.

Disney (Non-Pixar) animation performed terribly in the late Eisner era, and the company's vision was widely criticized. Stockholder backlash and bad market performance had a big impact on the changes to Disney's animation... all the cartoons in theaters these days are CGI, and Disney saw a good opportunity to explore its roots and differentiate itself by going to hand-drawn. This change back to a traditional style was based on market conditions, not angry letters. Once again, the people complaining about Small World being changed are going to pay anyway, and the public will be enthusiastic about an upgraded ride. The public was not enthusiastic about Atlantis and Treasure Planet.

[Melonballer]

Originally Posted by dl1955pounds

Are you referring to Disney's commitment to CGI in the early 2000's? If not, disregard this post completely, but this is the only issue that I can think of off the top of my head.

Nope. I talked about it earlier in the thread. Disney was releasing Miyazaki's "Princess Mononoke" on DVD. They did a nice job dubbing the film into English, but we wanted the original Japanese Language track with English subtitles as an alternate track. Disney at first said "no". Well, Nausicaa.net started a letter writing campaign. Disney changed their minds and added the language track and subtitles of the direct translation, not the dubbing script. It caused the release to be pushed back a several months. Our contacts at Disney said it was the letter writing campaign that made the difference. Don't believe me? Here is a link to an article about what happened.

http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/fuji/9270/update.html

In particular read the August 4th 2000 entry.

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by dl1955pounds

"...all the cartoons in theaters these days are CGI, and Disney saw a good opportunity to explore its roots and differentiate itself by going to hand-drawn. This change back to a traditional style was based on market conditions..."

Sorry to pick on one minor point in your post, but in the interest of historical accuracy, your version of what happened at WDFA during that period isn't even remotely accurate.

[lazyboy97O]

If those of us who disagree with these changes are so set up for failure, why argue with us? Would not just be easier to go sit in the corner, watch us burn and laugh about it all? Just seems really pointless to argue with those you know are doomed to fail.

[BellhopPrincess]

I have not said anything thus far, but I would like to point out and reiterate what others have said: IASW was meant for American audiences to take a step back from their closed-off view of the world to see what the rest of the world has to offer. To add the American scene is completely redundant because it is, in a sense, destroying that offer to see the world differently--instead of "Look all around you" it becomes "Glance around, but look mostly at the good ol' U.S.-of-A!" IASW becomes the literal version of the joke made my Sam the Eagle, further stereotyping America's supposed close-mindedness.
Not only that, but America is and always has been a country of immigrants. Celebrating American culture is really to celebrate the coming together of cultures from around the world, and to have the American diorama is a joke. There is no reason to show Americans what America is--we live here, and unless you live in a cave in the middle of nowhere, you know what America is.
The rainforests are still being torn down. I'd rather see a neon hippo and plastic lit rain than a plywood psudo-Blair cutout of the Grand Canyon.